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 Post subject: Re: Recover files from HP Simplesave 1TB
PostPosted: June 27th, 2018, 15:27 
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Joined: October 16th, 2013, 13:21
Posts: 717
Location: Brazil
abolibibelot wrote:
@rogfanther
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Doesn´t seem to me that both parties offer the same services then.

In this particular case, no. But without the hardware part (which seems “relatively” easy in comparison) the pricing would have been (I guess) similar, “in the same ballpark”.


Really do not agree. I made a bad solder job ( used wrong wire ) on one of this conversions, and without the necessary/correct tools and supplies, would have destroyed the pcb traces due to working with a mega-sized soldering iron. Then replacing the board with another, and transferring the adaptives *from inside Marvel MCU* would be hard and cost a lot more.

So, as many other things, it is easy when one knows how and has the necessary tools/ experience. Not everyone knows or has that. Example ? I know how an apendicectomy is done, can even see the pictures from training books in my mind. Do I think I am able to do it ? No. Would I expect good results if trying to do it ? Also not.


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 Post subject: Re: Recover files from HP Simplesave 1TB
PostPosted: June 27th, 2018, 16:13 
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Joined: November 22nd, 2017, 21:47
Posts: 166
Location: France
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So, as many other things, it is easy when one knows how and has the necessary tools/ experience. Not everyone knows or has that. Example ? I know how an apendicectomy is done, can even see the pictures from training books in my mind. Do I think I am able to do it ? No. Would I expect good results if trying to do it ? Also not.

Good point... :?
What I meant was : I got a 500€ quote for the software part only, and then that other person reported a 550€ quote for the complete hardware + software job, so I figured that the software part was by far the most costly / costliest, whatever, the part which brought the most buck for the bang.
Also, the USB to SATA conversion procedure is explained in several threads on this forum to relatively unexperienced persons with basic equipment willing to attempt a DIY recovery, with no particular warnings about the difficulty or the possible hazards with inadequate tools.


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 Post subject: Re: Recover files from HP Simplesave 1TB
PostPosted: June 27th, 2018, 17:10 
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Joined: October 16th, 2013, 13:21
Posts: 717
Location: Brazil
About the prices ; we don´t know how the conversations went, what was discussed, and also what either part knew or thought or considered about the specific job. If one can find other more suitable offer, then very good. It is not good when there is just one supplier of a thing or a service.

About the procedure : Apendicectomy is also explained in a lot of places. It is up to someone to understand what he is getting into, not do a monstrous mess then try to blame others for not having advised him. We are talking to adults here, not children.

And it is of little use to have a lot of warnings : people are still using 7200.11 commands blindly in 7200.12 and newer drives, even if the same post they reference states clearly that it should not be used. Human beings see what they want and ignore the rest.


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 Post subject: Re: Recover files from HP Simplesave 1TB
PostPosted: June 28th, 2018, 23:51 
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Joined: November 22nd, 2017, 21:47
Posts: 166
Location: France
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About the procedure : Apendicectomy is also explained in a lot of places. It is up to someone to understand what he is getting into, not do a monstrous mess then try to blame others for not having advised him. We are talking to adults here, not children.

Yes, but for instance noone here will describe the head-stack-assembly replacement procedure to a novice with no proper equipment asking if it's possible to fix a HDD with obvious defective heads issue. There are degrees of difficulty and/or risk, some things can be attempted with reasonable odds of success, some cannot. I myself asked about the possibity of attempting a HSA replacement for one of my own drives which does not contain data worthy enough to justify the cost of a professional service (which I couldn't afford currently anyway) ; I was replied, in a nutshell : save the money or forget about it. I mentioned for instance Scott Moulton's videos which describe certains aspects of advanced recovery procedures and was frowned upon because, apparently, among professional DR circles, just mentioning that guy's name seems to convey bad vibrations — precisely because he talks about those things in public conferences. So, apparently, not all information should be made freely accessible to the general public, right ? I haven't searched (not really what I wanna see right now :) ), but I'd be surprised if there were apendicectomy video tutorials on YouTube for instance... (if someone tries to upload one, it will probably be reported for removal by a surgeon or even a medical student, not just because it could harm the profession's overall income but because it might kill someone). And if there are such videos on serious medical websites, there must be a conspicuous disclaimer saying : “this should never be attempted by anyone without proper medical training, blah blah blah...” So, knowledgeable people do have a responsibility in the kind of information they choose to disclose, be it publicly, or to individuals, on a case-by-case basis, depending on the perceived knowledge level of each concerned person in the particular field in question and his/her general level of carefulness and common sense, with the proper warnings when necessary.
The distinction children / adults seems irrelevant to me. Some smart, wise and well-trained children can perform fairly advanced tasks in full autonomy and stay extremely cautious about the important details and the risks they entail, while many adults will stay stupid their entire life with no remedy on sight.
“The maturity of man—that means, to have reacquired the seriousness that one had as a child at play.” (Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond good and evil)


Quote:
And it is of little use to have a lot of warnings : people are still using 7200.11 commands blindly in 7200.12 and newer drives, even if the same post they reference states clearly that it should not be used. Human beings see what they want and ignore the rest.

Well, it may be true as a general observation, but it sure won't get any better if those who do know their stuff neglect to mention the important details altogether ! (Hence why I stressed above that I very much appreciated how Mr. Kaeding did care to mention such details, some I already knew, some I didn't, like the fact that just connecting a drive on Windows could mess up with the MBR enough to impede such a recovery procedure on en encrypted drive.)


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 Post subject: Re: Recover files from HP Simplesave 1TB
PostPosted: June 29th, 2018, 9:17 
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Joined: October 16th, 2013, 13:21
Posts: 717
Location: Brazil
In many places it is described how to do head stack replacement. And if just asking about it, people will answer describing the general ways of it. As each case changes with tools available and other situations, it doesn´t have only one way.

People are not very keen to explain those because, when done wrong, it will turn an easy thing into a nightmare for the professional trying to clean the mess after. A botched pcb can be replaced ( unless one loses the rom chip, and even in some cases it can be recovered ) . But if someone scratches all over the disks when trying to do head replacement in the kitchen sink things get much worse. And it will be only then that the "destroyer" will confess that the drive belonged to a customer and has/had important data that needed to be recovered.

The problem with Scott Moulton is that he makes it look too simple, and that gives courage to those that would try to learn in customer´s drives. Then if we recuse to work on a drive already fully messed up, then people treats us as the bad people.

For your reasoning, we should also block the access to medicine books in library, right, because they contain the "dangerous" information.

This :
Quote:
knowledgeable people do have a responsibility in the kind of information they choose to disclose, be it publicly, or to individuals, on a case-by-case basis, depending on the perceived knowledge level of each concerned person in the particular field in question and his/her general level of carefulness and common sense, with the proper warnings when necessary.

describe correctly the situation that everybody is telling you.

In the case of internet written comunication, I would make distinction between "children" and "adults" based on the level of knowledge, good judgment, smarts and prudence, more than on age.

And about that " just connecting to a windows machine ", I really do not believe it. It seems to me more like a way to avoid someone to mess with a drive without making them feeling bad. But I won´t dismiss it completely before doing tests. It is already on my to-do list, problem it is that said list seems to only get bigger, not smaller.


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