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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: April 30th, 2016, 17:33 
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Status of drive 1 :

Attachment:
1.jpg
1.jpg [ 86.06 KiB | Viewed 7840 times ]


Attachment:
2.jpg
2.jpg [ 103.22 KiB | Viewed 7840 times ]


HRT Test :

30/04/2016 22:12:06.093=**********************
30/04/2016 22:12:06.109=Logical test
30/04/2016 22:12:06.140=Verify Forward
30/04/2016 22:13:59.765=Added defect LBA=9760298, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:03.125=Added defect LBA=9760304, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:05.625=Added defect LBA=9760340, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:09.390=Added defect LBA=9760350, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:11.593=Added defect LBA=9760357, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:13.640=Added defect LBA=9760359, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:15.828=Added defect LBA=9760364, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:17.671=Added defect LBA=9760366, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:20.953=Added defect LBA=9760367, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:24.312=Added defect LBA=9760368, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:26.421=Added defect LBA=9760369, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:28.453=Added defect LBA=9760370, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:14:30.046=Added defect LBA=9760371, decode= Not answered
30/04/2016 22:29:14.531=Test finished

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: April 30th, 2016, 17:57 
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Finaly, the HRT Defectoscope for your DRIVE 1 is this :

Attachment:
def.jpg
def.jpg [ 88.4 KiB | Viewed 7838 times ]


For comparision on a good drive it should look something like this :

Attachment:
2.png
2.png [ 13.92 KiB | Viewed 7838 times ]


Conclusion - DO NOT USE DRIVE 1. I will not test it any further and i will ship it to you the way it is right now.

With this i've concluded the testing of the drives you had send me in and will ship you the package with the 4 drives next week.

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: April 30th, 2016, 18:18 
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@Spildit

Awesome work :cool:
I have to thank you very very much for your help. :thankyou:

I'm very happy that you could get the important "extra" data. :D
Thank God :please: the sectors were not physically damaged as expected. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 8th, 2016, 12:41 
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Hi there !

Your package was shipped last friday.

Please let me know as soon as it arrives and also provide me with some feedback regarding the cloned disks so that i can delete my local copy of the image file.

Hopefully you will have all of the data that you wanted properly !!!

Regards and have a nice week.

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 8th, 2016, 14:28 
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Spildit wrote:
Your package was shipped last friday.

Thank you very very much!
Hope the package makes it way back to me without issues.

What's your conclusion about comparing my software-only-clone with your hardware-supported-clone?


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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 9th, 2016, 18:08 
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Hello again.

Hopefully the package will arrive soon and you will be able to see the results for yourself. Even if one of the clones gets damaged you will have the other one as i've cloned the drive with important data to both seagate and wd drive and i'm keeping here the image file just in case something really bad happens like package loss (never happen in my life). By the tracking ID that i've just checked the package is still in Portugal but i think it should arrive there this week. You can track the package using the tracking ID that i've send you yesterday or so using the CTT link that i send you by PM. This will show you where your package is.

My conclusion regarding the imaging by hardware is that on this particular case the most important aspect to solve was the translator issue.

If you were to be able to solve that up front i think that your software only sollution would have been able to clone the drive with the exception of the 180 or so bad sectors. The hardware based HRT-DRE was able to read some of those 180 bad sectors by multiple reading attempts and for the ones that colud not be perfectly read a statistical read was able to recover the data out of it.

If you want to test this out further just use your cloning/imaging software once again on the original drive (that now have "repaired" translator) and check if you can clone it and how many sectors it will not be able to copy/clone. If you manage to get data out of all sectors (i bet you can't) then you will be at the same level as my hardware sollution (for this particular case). If course we are assuming that there will not be any need to re-power the drive by hardware because this drive will not be stuck on BSY state.

The big issue preventing you to gain access to the data that you needed was indeed translator/firmware related and would have to be solved to start with.

Now that is sorted out (at least drive should work a few times and that should be enought to clone it again) you should be able to clone it again (less the bad sectors that software only can't access).

Just test it for yourself and post your conclusions.

Also be aware that the drive have entries on the g-list and might develop further translator problems later on if re-used several times, but you should be ok to attempt to clone it with your tool without any major issue.

Regards and will be looking forwared to ear from you as soon as you recieve the drives.

Please do come back to this thread when you do and post your feedback, and also let me know if you have all the data that you wanted to recover.

Regards.

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 9th, 2016, 18:24 
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Roberto wrote:
OK, now I am pretty sure that my old caviar drive is not supported by WD-Marvell and SeDiv.

I found another old drive in my treasure which is from caviar series but this time from another family.
This drives is recognized "good" and the g-list can be read.

So I assume that I need another tool for reading and writing G-Lists for my other Caviar-Series Drive.
Does there a demo version of WDR exist?
Where can it be downloaded?


This is just a "side note".

"Sabre" drives use Marvel MCU but are prior to ROYL. You have old drives like the ones that i've recoevred the data from that are cyl 16 and 32 that have WDC MCU. Then WD started to use Marvel MCU and so there are drives like Sabre that have that MCU. A little bit after that WD started to use a slight diferent arch that we call "ROYL" and all modern WDC drives will use that. Sabre is not as old as a cyl32 but it's not as recent as ROYL so WDMarvel doesn't work very well with it in particular if you attempt to Self-Scan the drive.

Check here :

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php? ... =100#p8484

There you have some Self-Scan testing on my Sabre. Please be aware that SS will ERASE ALL DATA. There were some problems with WDMarvel that i've reported on their forum and were fixed on the latest version like the support to edit SS scripts on those pre-ROYL drives. In any case SS monitoring with WDMarvel might not work as it should. Use HRT or WDR instead (use the option of Marvell instead of ROYL (well, i don't even know if it will make any difference). WDR works way better with those older drives then WDMarvel. You can use WDMarvel to load DIR in RAM and write SA backup back to the drive if you brick it up while testing as explained.

Regards.

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 14th, 2016, 8:51 
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HELLLOOO !!!
Hope that you are still there !

By the tracking log the drives arrived back to you yesterdad, Friday, 13 of May of 2016 at 11:30.

Please let us know if you checked the drives and if all is ok !

Let us know if you have all of the data that you wanted back so i can delete my local copy of the image file.

Also please do some testing with your cloning software and compare the results on the "fixed" drive agains my clones.

Regards and please do post some feedback when you have time to do so !!!

Alex.

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 19th, 2016, 5:23 
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Spildit wrote:
HELLLOOO !!!
Hope that you are still there !

By the tracking log the drives arrived back to you yesterdad, Friday, 13 of May of 2016 at 11:30.

Please let us know if you checked the drives and if all is ok !

Let us know if you have all of the data that you wanted back so i can delete my local copy of the image file.

Also please do some testing with your cloning software and compare the results on the "fixed" drive agains my clones.

Regards and please do post some feedback when you have time to do so !!!

Alex.

Hello Alex,

Sorry for the delay.
I have received your package.
And it looks like the data is ALL there :D
Thank you very much again.

But please give me some more time to check the files, before you delete your ímage file.

I will also do the comparison with my cloning tool.
I hope I'll get the time for doing this in the next days.
Then I'll come back to show the results.

Best Regards


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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 19th, 2016, 14:36 
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Hi there !

Nice to have some feedback from you ! As you stated the data should be ALL there and my image file should be exactly the same as your 2 cloned drives. I was just keeping it in case the drives got damaged or stolen by the postal service. If you have the 2 drives in working condition (the WD with "repaired" PCB and the Seagate) then they both should have exact same copy as my image file.

I will keep the file here for a while, please let me know when you want for me to delete it. I do have several storage drives so I don't mind to keep it some more weeks.

Regarding the comparison your cloning tool should now work way better with the "repaired" drive. On a normal case you should get all except 180 sectors. If your cloning tool is very good you should get data from even those sectors. If you have more then 180 bad sectors then your cloning tool is working poorly. If you have 0 bad sectors then you can compete with the hardware cloning solution. If you can get data even from the 134 sectors (from the 180 bad ones) that are really damaged and un-stable showing different data on each read then you are at the same level of hardware tools.

At any rate you shouldn't get more then 180 unreadable or bad sectors unless you manage to damage the drive further or the translator gets damaged again.

Please do report your findings !!!

Also for other people reading here this thread/posts serve as a case-study (and some publicity to myself) but please be aware that this is a one-time only offer and that in the future I will indeed charge some $$$ for this sort of service + shipping.

Regards.

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 27th, 2016, 13:20 
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Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:

+1 ,
He is Damn Well Right Buddy .You Claim To Use a HiFi Sector Cloning Software ,I Sense in Your Posts That Do Not Have Much Knowledge About HDD's in General ,Maybe Its time To Try Something Better DDrescue With a Graphical Interface


Looks like my cloning software has turned out to be more than only HiFi.
Now it seems to be really SciFi :mrgreen:
With it's Science Fiction Technology it could read the "repaired" original HDD without any errors!
I guess this comes from the supernatural algorithms which probably could emulate a contactless turbocharged laser magnetic reading unit.

Joking aside guys :D

Can someone please explain this unexpected result?

@Spildit
Is it possible that you accidentally "translated" those bad sectors to good ones?


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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 27th, 2016, 14:59 
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Well, i don't think so.

What could have happened is that your cloning software is somehow flagging the sectors as good or somehow those sectors were added to the G-List by your software.

Do run MHDD/Victoria on the drive and scan it. It should find bad sectors at the start and across the drive. If so those bad sectors are still there and your software is just cloning the drive taking the data it can from the sectors and considering them as good ?

I'm sure that the drive have those 180 bad sectors. I didn't remap them to the G-List. Maybe your software managed to do so. Check S.M.A.R.T. and you should see the number of relocated sectors.

At any rate, do you have the totality of the data that you wanted intact ?

Regards.

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 27th, 2016, 15:02 
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Please read the S.M.A.R.T. data of the "damaged" drive and compare with this :

Image

If there are more re-located sectors then somehow your cloning software "forced" for some sectors to be swapped by spares and they are no longer flagged as "bad".

Regards.

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 27th, 2016, 15:19 
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I could had used HRT to read the data out of the bad blocks and attempt to write them back, this would re-locate the sectors to spares and copy the extracted data to a spare like explained here :

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php? ... 1402#p7204

But I HAVEN'T done this so there is no way for the BAD BLOCKS to be relocated by HRT-DRE as it will only READ from the drive unless somehew the drive itself decided to add those sectors to the G-List by reading them only ? :shock: :shock: :shock:

Most likely if the G-List increased (you have more re-located sectors now) then the cause might have been your software.

Check with MHDD/Victoria as well. You should have bad blocks/sectors on the drive. At least 180.

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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 31st, 2016, 6:55 
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Here's a screenshot of Victoria 4.47
Attachment:
Pic6_SMART (PIO).PNG
Pic6_SMART (PIO).PNG [ 83.92 KiB | Viewed 7510 times ]


It looks the same as your pic at first sight.

There are also 182 reallocated sectors and 189 pending sectors.


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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: May 31st, 2016, 7:14 
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Spildit wrote:
What could have happened is that your cloning software is somehow flagging the sectors as good or somehow those sectors were added to the G-List by your software.

I cannot imagine that. My cloning tool has no implementation for such things..... at least as far as I know and understand the source-code.

Spildit wrote:
Do run MHDD/Victoria on the drive and scan it. It should find bad sectors at the start and across the drive.

This is the scan result with API mode
Attachment:
Pic2.PNG
Pic2.PNG [ 67.91 KiB | Viewed 7509 times ]

Interestingly it differs from the scan in PIO mode
Attachment:
Pic5 (PIO).PNG
Pic5 (PIO).PNG [ 67.75 KiB | Viewed 7509 times ]

Spildit wrote:
If so those bad sectors are still there and your software is just cloning the drive taking the data it can from the sectors and considering them as good ?

How could this be done without vendor specific commands? I don't think my cloning tool has built in VSCs.
I thought reading defective sectors with bad checksums could only be read by VSCs, or am I wrong? :shock:

Spildit wrote:
I'm sure that the drive have those 180 bad sectors. I didn't remap them to the G-List. Maybe your software managed to do so. Check S.M.A.R.T. and you should see the number of relocated sectors.

Smart Data (see screenshot in last post) seems to be similar to your screenshot.

Spildit wrote:
At any rate, do you have the totality of the data that you wanted intact ?

As far as I can see ALL the data from the important partition is there.
But I cannot confirm that until the owner tells me the same.
He hasn't picked up his drive till now :wink:

I think this should happen in the next days.
Please keep the image file till I get the OK from the owner.


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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: June 1st, 2016, 13:36 
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Wow, some amazing work and write up there

The obvious big question is
How is the HRT tool ? able to regenerate the translator and how on earth can it get it correct ?
(your article explains why it is so important to get right and also implies its impossible to recreate unless you get very lucky)

Re 'hardware cloning' - its still reading sectors via the sata interface using standard commands and skipping areas you have defined etc, so I still don't really see any hardware 'magic' in this
(with the exception of the ability to power cycle the drive automatically)
Also discussed on an earlier thread
https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26864

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2016, 6:58 
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update to last post

Or maybe the translator is just a big array and can be rebuilt from the P-list and G-List (assuming they are still present)

Good background here
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php? ... ator#p8833

(doesn't cover the more complex non resident g-list used on later drives, but I've forgotten what I use to know about that)


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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2016, 9:30 
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And only part of the translator 'array' was damaged in this case
(before you fixed it)


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 Post subject: Re: WD400JB cannot read sectors from 30GB to 35GB
PostPosted: June 4th, 2016, 5:28 
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Roberto wrote:
Here's a screenshot of Victoria 4.47
Attachment:
Pic6_SMART (PIO).PNG


It looks the same as your pic at first sight.

There are also 182 reallocated sectors and 189 pending sectors.


Hi !!!

- Check RAW value. When i ship you the drive back to you it had 286 relocated sectors. Now it have 288. Relocated event count increased from 71 to 73 so FOR SURE some relocation took place and G-List increased. Also on WD drives G-LIST increases might not be acurrate. When S.M.A.R.T. tells you that there are 286 rellocated sectors there might be in fact WAY MORE. The number of Relocate Sectors shown on S.M.A.R.T. for WD might not match the REAL NUMBER of sectors on G-LIST.

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