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 Post subject: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 7th, 2017, 10:40 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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Is this SMART normal for a new portable disk.

Crystal disk info

Image

HD tune

Image

HD sentinel

Image

HD tune read test

Image


I am worried about that raw red error rate 65 - 84, that ok?

I run Seatools long and short generic test, test passes without problem.

Seagate Drive Settings program won`t detect anything in Win10 so I can`t check with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 9th, 2017, 13:31 
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I asked Seagate support, they told me this:

"Please be advised Read Error Rate Stores data related to the rate of hardware read errors that occurred when reading data from a disk surface/platter.

On reviewing the screenshots we see that the Raw Read Error Rate is currently 84

Threshold is 6: If the Read Error Rate is near to 6 or less than 6, it indicates that the drive has failed. Threshold is the lowest value that is used to determine a failure. For any attribute, if the current value is less or equal to the Threshold, then it is a drive that is failing or has failed.

Worst value is 65: The values for both Current and the Worst keeps changing. The lowest value that the attribute "Read Error Rate" has reached is 65. This value is not near the Threshold value 6. Hence, it means that the drive is in good health.

The higher the current value is, better the health status will be. This applies for all other attributes except temperature. The current value of temperature must be lesser and the maximum temperature level that the drive has recorded is the worst value.
"

Then I asked this:

"That part about read error rate 84, is that the highest good value, not value of 100? So my smart is the healthiest that new HDD can be?"

They answer this:

"The information that we had provided was based on the screenshots you had shared. If you'd like detailed information about the diagnostics, we suggest you check the documentation of the software manufacturer. Since we do not rely on diagnostics done by third-party applications, we are unable to give you more information on whether the values represent the actual condition of the drive.

Additionally, SMART attributes are not applicable to external drives connected via USB. Since you have already run tests using Seatools, we believe the drive to be functional. You can try using the drive and let us know if there are any concerns.
"


I tried to update drive firmware but I couldn`t seems to find any firmware by my disk serial number :shock:

Image

For that they told me this:

"With respect to your query about a firmware update, we would like to clarify that the hard drive is just a plug and play device and it doesn't require any firmware update. Please note that the essential drivers and updates for this drive will be supplied through an operating system and chip set drivers."


So everything seems to be OK? :P


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 10th, 2017, 17:21 
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Joined: November 22nd, 2017, 21:47
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Location: France
– People here will most probably tell you (if they're in the mood, or if you insist a bit) that Seagate HDDs are crap (it almost seems like it's insulting to even ask if it can be safe to use one ! :shock: ).
– Otherwise, I would say that if three reputed softwares report that particular unit as healthy, then it can be considered healthy. All my Seagate HDDs have crazy numbers in the “Raw read error rate” field (see attached image), I don't know why but it doesn't seem to be of particular concern. It may or may not be related to that statement I read on this forum recently :

Quote:
The flying height of today's drives must be a lot lower than in those older models, and today's higher track density would be placing much greater demands on the servo system and on the motor bearing. To get an idea of the progression in technology, it might be worth following the changes in the Hardware ECC Recovered SMART attribute in Seagate's models. AFAICT, the normalised value for this attribute has steadily declined with newer models, to the point that Seagate no longer appears to report it. ISTM that HDDs are nowadays digging data out of noise.


Attachments:
File comment: (healthy) Seagate ST2000DX001
ST2000DX001 20171210 raw read error rate.png
ST2000DX001 20171210 raw read error rate.png [ 176.73 KiB | Viewed 3739 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 10th, 2017, 18:04 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
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Seagate SMART Attribute Specification:
http://t1.daumcdn.net/brunch/service/user/axm/file/zRYOdwPu3OMoKYmBOby1fEEQEbU.pdf

Normal SATA SMART Attribute Behavior (Seagate):
http://t1.daumcdn.net/brunch/service/user/axm/file/Vw3RJSZllYbDc86ssL6bofiL4r0.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 12:17 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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My post has been approved so there is now a conversation with Seagate support (post 2). By them SMART is not reliable for portable disks and it is not necessary to update firmware.

And in @fzabkar PDF that he posted (Normal SATA SMART Attribute Behavior) is stated that Raw Error Rate* range is 1-120 (mine is current 84 - worst 65). Sp what to think about that?

On that disk I will keep very important files so I need to be positive that disk is in maximum health state :?: :?: :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 16:59 
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Quote:
The information that we had provided was based on the screenshots you had shared. If you'd like detailed information about the diagnostics, we suggest you check the documentation of the software manufacturer. Since we do not rely on diagnostics done by third-party applications, we are unable to give you more information on whether the values represent the actual condition of the drive.

This is nonsense. SMART data are vendor specific, so "detailed information about the diagnostics" can only be provided by the manufacturer. That's why I posted Seagate's own documents.

Quote:
Additionally, SMART attributes are not applicable to external drives connected via USB.

More nonsense.

Quote:
Since you have already run tests using Seatools, we believe the drive to be functional.

SeaTools is a pass-or-fail diagnostic. If a drive is limping, it will still pass. In fact I have seen drives with 2000 bad sectors which still get the "all OK" from SeaTools.

Seagate has a much better suite of tools called the SeaChest Utilities. Seagate Support should have made you aware of them. Maybe they don't want you to know?

All SeaChest Utilities User Guides:
http://support.seagate.com/firmware/usb ... r_faq.html

SeaChest / SeaTools / openSeaChest / README.md:
https://github.com/Seagate/ToolBin/archive/master.zip

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 18:59 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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Location: Ireland
Maybe they support are limited by knowledge :?

On they page there is this:

Seagate USB External drive diagnostics
http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/e ... #Dashboard

There is no mention on Seachest. With that in mind maybe they are just following procedure form that page.

For Seachest I need to create a bootable USB, by Rufus?


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 20:54 
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Quote:
On that disk I will keep very important files so I need to be positive that disk is in maximum health state


correction:

Quote:
On that disk I will keep very important files so I need to be positive that my backup solution is properly designed and implemented, so in the event this disk fails I don't lose DATA.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 13th, 2017, 22:26 
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fzabkar wrote:
SeaChest / SeaTools / openSeaChest / README.md:
https://github.com/Seagate/ToolBin/archive/master.zip

The SeaTools directory has a single file, junk.txt, consisting of a single linefeed character. I guess that's putting it concisely.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 14th, 2017, 4:29 
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How to start SeaChest? When i open any exe it shows for a seconds than closes. Another tool from Seagate that is only for Win7?


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 14th, 2017, 16:32 
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Today I did HD error scan, everything good.

Image

Can someone help me with SeaChest so I can finally start using my disk. It been a week since I got him.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 14th, 2017, 16:42 
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Try this release:
https://apps1.seagate.com/downloads/certificate.html?key=19044734837

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 15th, 2017, 6:33 
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That release seems ok, I install it and open it, DOS windwos appears. I entered Seachest_SMART.exe and from that I don`t know what to do. I tryed scan, -S and some other but no commeand is recognized. I have not expiriance in DOS, can someone wrote what options I need to activate?


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 17th, 2017, 12:42 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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Location: Ireland
Image

Image

Image

I don`t know what next, how to scan it? :?

Since my HD error scan test those value 84 (raw read error rate) has fallen to 83 :shock:

Somewhere I read that raw read error rate doesn`t matter (that different manafactures and drives have different values that are optimal, so 0 often isn't the best value), that bad sectors and uncorrectable sectors are the ones that should be OK (those are fine if that SMART reading is true).


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 18th, 2017, 15:58 
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Try ...

    SeaChest_Basics -s -F usb
    SeaChest_Basics -s -F interfaceUSB

As for your concerns in respect of the Read Error Rate attribute, I would compare your SMART data against other examples from the same model. Perhaps your results are normal?

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 19th, 2017, 18:10 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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Image

That it? :shock:

Can`t compare to other Seagate model so I don`t know. If Raw read error rate falls to 0, disk won`t die?


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 20th, 2017, 3:14 
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The "s" option scans your computer for storage devices. Your screenshot is reporting a single USB storage device (Expansion) with a "handle" of "PD3".

You can now use PD3 as the device handle in other commands.

For example ...

    SeaChest_SMART -d PD3 --smartAttributes raw
    SeaChest_SMART -d PD3 --smartAttributes analyzed

BTW, ISTM that you would probably be happier with CrystalDiskInfo.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 20th, 2017, 5:48 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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Location: Ireland
Here it is:

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


Opinions?

What do you mean by Crystal disk info, I already posted smart from that program...


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 20th, 2017, 16:00 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
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SeaChest is telling you that there are no read errors.

The reason I say that you would probably be happier with CrystalDiskInfo is that it is a point-and-click program. SeaChest is far more useful, but it requires that you be comfortable with the command line.

BTW, CrystalDiskInfo should identify the model number of the drive inside the enclosure. Use that model number to search for SMART reports from other Internet users.

Also, be aware that you can redirect the output of any SeaChest command to a log file.

eg ...

    SeaChest_SMART -d PD3 --smartAttributes analyzed > logfile.txt

CrystalDiskInfo can also write its reports to a text file.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 21st, 2017, 5:26 
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So this is real name of drive:

ST2000LM007
Image

I tryed googling that:

- found this:

https://www.dell.com/support/home/hr/en ... erId=0D4C3

firmware update from 19 october 2017. I don`t think it is neccasary to update (??). Anyway I can`t find firmware on Seagate page by serial number (I posted this in first post)

- some user with problem with freezeing - Firmware fixes this

https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php ... ile=mobile

- Seagate Smart disk values

http://sgros.blogspot.hr/2013/01/seagat ... alues.html

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/Se ... R_HEC.html

This user other Seagate disk, high raw read erro rate, but same rule apply as above:

https://superuser.com/questions/393257/ ... error-rate


Summary:

- Seagate support tells that all is fine
- passes all test (Seatools - long, short; HD tune error scan)
- disk won`t die if read error rate falls to 0 (I think??), other values are more important
- SeagateChest OK
- Seagate smart is read differently

So it should be fine, i can start using it? Only little worried about that firmware update :?


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