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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 21st, 2017, 15:20 
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AISI, your drive is working fine. I couldn't find any SMART reports from other ST2000LM007 users, so I don't know how "normal" your RRER attribute data are. I would expect that the attribute value should not fall too much below its current level. If it does, then I would be concerned. A value of 0 would mean that the drive has failed (the threshold is 6).

I would watch the Retired Sectors Count, Reported Uncorrectable, Pending-Sparing Count, and Offline Uncorrectable Sectors attributes.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 22nd, 2017, 5:29 
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Thank you very much, I can finally start to use disk :D

Before couple of days I could`t wait for answer on this forum (my every message it needs to be approved by moderator :? ) so I aksed on another one for raw read error rate. I got this answer:

Image

So disk will surely die if it reaches raw read error rate 0? I was thinking that I "turn on" yellow alert if value reaches 70 and if reaches 60 I would immediately contact Seagate support and "turn on" read alert for this HDD and transfered all of my data to another one.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 22nd, 2017, 18:01 
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Just when I was going to start putting file on this portable HDD in HD sentinel I saw that Raw read error rate has jumped to 100

Image

Then I open WD lifeguard and now value is 76 :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Image

after that I unlug it and plug it again, now everywhere is showing that value is 76 (even in HD sentinel)

Seachest

Image

What now? Healthy or not? :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


UPDATE:

I done read test in HD tune and after that value change again, now is 81

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 22nd, 2017, 18:22 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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Location: Ireland
If it matters here is read test picture, USB 3.0. I done it 2 time speed seems constant

Image

After one more read test it jumped to 82 :?:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 24th, 2017, 14:32 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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Location: Ireland
Any comment?

I mean if Smart reading was right than Raw read error rate wouldn`t jump around? Ignore that wrong SMART reading???


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 25th, 2017, 16:54 
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Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:49
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lorca wrote:
Any comment?

I mean if Smart reading was right than Raw read error rate wouldn`t jump around? Ignore that wrong SMART reading???


Honest comment :

Any newer Seagate drive (F3 arch) is very bad in quality. They are made with the cheaper materials that they can get and they are made to last for a very short time.

If the many known firmware problems on those drives like the media cache issue and the slow reading because of pending sectors don't end up killing the drive for good then the poor platter quality and head(s) quality will do that for you and the chances for recovering the data even by a professional will not be very good as thoe drives tend to "die" with severe media / platter damage.

Do yourself a favour and replace that Seagate by something like HGST to be on the safe side and even better don't forget to backup all of the important data.

It doesn't matter how many tests you do on that Seagate. Even if S.M.A.R.T. and a full surface scan don't show any problem right now there are no guarantee that on the next moment media cache will not be damaged preventing data access or translator doesn't get damaged instead at firmware level or even worse drive might get a "ring" on the platter just from on moment to the other even if you don't drop it and even if the previouse full surface scan didn't show any problem ....

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 25th, 2017, 17:35 
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I don`t think it should be too bad, from Amazon reviews it seems very decent.

Deliberately I avoided Western digital because I read on more than one forum that WD has problems on external drive with electronic. I bought this on Black friday on a very good deal. Before I bought it I looked Amazon reviews and it seemed very good.

Amazon uk reviews

Image

Amazon com reviews

Image

I will ignore raw read error rate :idea: , this value must be wrong and than see how it will turn out


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 25th, 2017, 17:40 
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Joined: November 22nd, 2017, 21:47
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Location: France
Quote:
Even if S.M.A.R.T. and a full surface scan don't show any problem right now there are no guarantee that on the next moment media cache will not be damaged preventing data access or translator doesn't get damaged instead at firmware level or even worse drive might get a "ring" on the platter just from on moment to the other even if you don't drop it and even if the previouse full surface scan didn't show any problem ....


Well, that can happen with any HDD if you're unlucky... This summer I had three of my own hard drives which failed : a Seagate ST3000DM001, which at first had 16 bad sectors, I waited longer than I should have yet I managed to recover anything but 6 video files ; a Seagate ST2000DM001, started to disconnect randomly and cause system errors, rapidly developped about 1300 bad sectors, but I could clone it completely, except a 600KB portion belonging to a system file (probably explaining the system instability, even though the O.S. wasn't on it) ; and then a Western Digital WD6400AAKS, which started clicking right away, with no warning whatsoever from HD Sentinel (haven't checked that one yet since then but it doesn't look promising). And during the same period I took care of a Hitachi drive for someone, which was failing quickly and quite severely (probably a bad head, I might create a thread to show a ddrescueview screenshot and ask if it's enough to determine what the problem was). I already said it here, I'm wary of such general statements regarding HDDs and their expected lifetime, failure rate, or failure pattern – even if you seem knowledgeable and experienced.

I could say the same about optical medias for instance : when I burned a lot of CDs and DVDs, I bought mostly Verbatim medias because they were supposed to be of higher quality than most other brands, yet I've had many Verbatim disks becoming partially or totally unreadable within a few years or even a few months, while disks from supposedly low-grade brands were (and probably are) still readable. And most of my -RW optical medias have remained readable, even though they were supposed to have a lower reliability and lower lifetime expectancy than the -R ones. Go figure !


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 25th, 2017, 18:00 
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Joined: November 22nd, 2017, 21:47
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Location: France
@“lorca” :
On the other hand, you can't rely on Amazon comments to rate hard disk drives. Most of the reviews are posted within a few weeks, a few months at most after the purchase, and most are made by people who have a “practical” interest in the technological devices they own, with little to no knowledge and experience about their inner workings and their causes of failure (even people with advanced skills in computer programming for instance can say stupid things about HDDs), and who evaluate aspects like noise, temperature, and performances mostly. On the surface a hard disk drive is a very simple thing : it stores data, and reads data, if it does it as it's supposed to, doesn't make itself noticed with a high temperature or disturbing sound (it used to be a problem, there used to be significant discrepancies between different brands / models on those aspects, but it's no longer an issue), with a good speed (speed is primarily related to capacity, or more precisely platter density, so all current HDDs with large capacities are fast enough for most puroposes, even the ones with a lower rotation speed reach at least 100MB/s in sequential reads/writes), then it's considered as good as can be and gets a great rating / review.

Then there's a thing called post-purchase rationalization :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purc ... nalization


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 26th, 2017, 3:57 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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@abolibibelot

I understand what are you trying to say but if I had simillar problem with WD probably someone here would tell me that WD had bad electronics :P

I know amazon is not relevant but for some products I saw that some users updated their review after a year :?

Let say that you are right, that this Seagate series is garbage, how many power on hours do you predict that this disk would work normaly without any problems? For example I use my internal HDD for storage for max 30000 working hours.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 27th, 2017, 13:30 
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Joined: November 22nd, 2017, 21:47
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Well, I'm no DR professional, I don't have the experience some of the “gurus” here have, but, as I said, you can't predict anything at all for one particular unit : it could last 10 years with sustained use (some here might disagree, they may be right – but how many HDDs last 10 years nowadays, regardless of the brand / model ?), it could fail in two months with a moderate use, and you could say the same for any other model from any other brand. Even if statistically HGST drives were less likely to fail (I don't know, maybe it's true), some of them do fail anyway, and the fact that, on average, Seagate drives supposedly have a worse potential outcome for data recovery when they fail (this is probably true as I've read it repeatedly here from different contributors who definitely seem to know what they're talking about and would have no reason for unanimously spreading false information – unless this forum is in fact a sect and they are actual gurus ! :) ) should be a moot point, if you have a proper backup of everything remotely important that is stored on it, regularly updated and verified.
Now that you have purchased this one, since you are careful enough to thoroughly check if it's reliable, and will check regularly the SMART data (HD Sentinel is excellent for that purpose as it does a constant verification in the background and warns you right away in case there's something wonky), since it's currently perfectly operational, I don't see a valid reason to re-sell it and replace it. If anything, knowing about that brand's bad reputation among DR professionals should make you all the more careful with it, whereas, if you did replace it with a HGST one as it has been advised, you may feel a little too safe and not care as much, then if it did fail you wouldn't be prepared (a bit like having a small and frail car makes you drive more carefully and be less prone to severe accidents than driving a big heavy car which feels perfectly safe even at full speed, but can still crush you inside if it ends up smashing against something bigger and heavier).
Or, another perspective : your portable hard disk drive could be lost / stolen – then, however reliable or unreliable the thing was on a technical level, you would instantly lose everything that was on it with no chance of recovery.

“We gotta make the best of it. Improvise. Adapt to the environment. Darwin. Shit happens. I Ching. Whatever. We got to roll with it.”
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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 29th, 2017, 13:01 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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Location: Ireland
I have always HD sentinel open so if something go wrong I should know it.

Through last 20 years I had more than 10 HDD and they all served me well, without any problems. I hope that series won`t be broken with this Seagate.

If I noticed anything strange in SMART I will immediately transfer my files to another location.

I immediately recognized quote from Collateral, one of my favorite movies 8) 8) :D


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 29th, 2017, 20:53 
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Strongly recommended to avoid relying so much on A**zon reviews. Many fake reviews on there. Have to dig deeper to see fake review patterns. They are well camouflaged.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: December 30th, 2017, 16:57 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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Seems that these reviews I posted from Amazon are for disk version STEA2000400. My is ST2000LM007.

These should be real deal:

https://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Laptop-2 ... T2000LM007

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... -_-Product

These from Newegg are not so positive, many of them said that disk died after short period of time :x

Reading this reviews I change my mind, I will on this Seagate keep my secondary files so that disk would work only 40-50 hours per year.

I regret that I didn`t buy some internal 3,5" + external case for HDD and than use that for external backup :evil:

Primary backup files I will put on my WD green 20EARX that has 28000 working hours. It will serve as an external drive when I buy new storage disk. I have much more confidance in my old disk than this new Seagate, I bought it only because it was on good price on Black Friday, didn`t have time to study reviews carefully.

About 20EARX, i have some small doubts:

- it happened to me two times when after fast SSD boot I entered immediately in WD green to open some files but there was a 10-15 seconds delay, like that when file is not responding, I guess it needed time to read files. Is that normal?

- sometimes I noticed when I listen songs (some megamix, every song is longer than 1 hour) that when I rewind I got to wait 0,5-1 seconds. Normal?


Here is the smart:

Image

CRC error was because the sata cable, I change it long time ago, no increase from than.


What would you recommend, WD red or Seagate Ironwolf (2-3TB versions)? Which is more quieter and durable?

Sorry for bad english :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: January 5th, 2018, 3:33 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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anyone?


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: January 5th, 2018, 13:13 
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Joined: August 18th, 2010, 17:35
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Typically you would start hearing "How do you intend to use the drives?"
For ex: WD Red series is intended for storage (not daily workhorse drive), typically in NAS devices.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: January 8th, 2018, 8:16 
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Joined: November 11th, 2017, 17:24
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It will be use for storage in desktop configuration. I prefer NAS drives because longer warranty and durability.

I was told that:

" the 3TB version of any brand seems to have a disproportionate drive failure rate when compared to any other HDD capacity "

Is that true? So 2TB is better?


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate expansion portable 2,5" 2TB SMART question
PostPosted: January 9th, 2018, 10:54 
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Joined: August 18th, 2010, 17:35
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
Based on bias from memory on various cases, I would say there is some truth to that. Definitely true on Seagate DM series. New drives? They have not begun failing in high numbers, so very little feedback available. Takes a bit of time to see trends.
Sticking with even number capacity in HDDs is recommended (as you said: 2TB, 4TB, etc)

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