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 Post subject: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 4th, 2018, 21:13 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
Hi:

I did some searching first but think I really need to preview what I've done before powering up a SATA drive after pre-prep and board/NV memory swap.

Apologies if I am the 100th person to ask the same thing & for the lengthy details. I personally think details are better but most people do not agree with me. I hope it helps someone else (even if to discourage following a bad path). The more I read about this the more I see what can go wrong if I don't prepare properly.

I offered to help a friend with a non-booting Dell Inspiron (560?) with a Barracuda 7200.12 320 GB drive. I said yes, being a tech (everything but PC's) and having swapped an IDE controller on a puny drive in the mid 90's successfully. As I began reading online, I realize how much things have changed! He wants to recover data to the extent possible. We can reinstall his OS from his media disks when we get to that point, on another drive.

Step 0: Observed drive won't spin up. I looked for all the dumb things like inoperative PC cooling fans etc. Pulled the drive and attempted powering it up with a USB cable drive multi-connector tool but remembered person who gave it to me wasn't sure it worked. I don't know what click-of-death/11-clicks urban legend symptom sounds like. This one makes a periodic attempt to run then stops, waits a few seconds then repeats. I only let it do so 2 or 3 times on each attempt, then tried another power source. The startup sound is to my ears more like an acoustic burst...a more complex sound than a click. I'm sure that helps a lot :roll: . Most confident power source attempt was a previously opened portable HDD so I took that apart & found I had a 7200.11 320 GB drive in there. No change in drive behavior. This gave me the idea to buy more of the same drive for Frankendrive efforts. I don't remember what I could see in the PC BIOS at boot attempt as it was mid December, like whether the drive was recognized.

Step 1: I bought two more of the same drive, erased & tested from an eBay HDD supplier. The only thing I had a clue initially to try to match was the firmware. I said one match would be great; didn't care about 2nd, for Plan B (which I think is a bad idea now, so I won't mention it) They were able to provide one with same firmware and I later found the controller PC boards match both p/n and Rev. Slight variations in semiconductor markings. Inoperative drive is Barracuda ST3320418AS, 7200.12, board is 100535704 Rev. B. Before delivery, seller advised I change the serial memory chip if there was one, or send back for free assessment & possible $60 repair. Told me several 25xxxxxx type p/n's to look for on IC and to look for burn marks.

Step 2: Drives arrived. One of them had identical drive p/n, firmware, board p/n and Rev. Datecode was a few digits off. Original failed drive PCB has absolutely no signs of burning or other distress, just cigarette smoke residue and tarnished silver-plating on board traces. I cleaned them as I considered attempting powering it back up with the same board. Inspected under microscope. Board looks great. I hope that doesn't mean spindle motor is seized. I hope that a tarnished connection only allowing two of three motor phases connected could prevent startup (wishful thinking).

Step 3: I decided to not try reassembly with cleaned board...seemed too simple a solution and probably based on laziness. Yesterday I attempted finding datasheets for the three IC's that differed on the two otherwise same-marked boards. DRAM were different but I didn't care. Slight marking variation on 3rd or 4th line on main controller QFP IC...I don't care. Some slight difference on SMOOTH motion profile small QFP IC...don't care; I can't change it myself anyway. Original board had 4184P SOIC-8 MOSFET+Schottky diode combination. New board had SP8U36 (I think). I couldn't find that one so I stopped caring. Original board had Winbond 25X40ALS33 and new board had 25FW406A. I spent WAY too much time trying to find datasheets in English to compare them. FYI: You need to prefix Winbond p/n with W which is not on device top marking (per datasheets). Closest I could find was 25X40ALSN. There are excess inventory chip vendors sellers out there with 'ALS32 and 'ALS33 but no datasheet found. New board had 25FW406A 29 9YG03 marked part. I eventually figured out a couple prefix letters but only found 403 and 806 family data...maybe too old or customer-specific build...don't care now. I figured out both parts are in 2.3-3.6 VDC range and seem to be 4 MB so I am less worried about compatibility.

Step 4 (today 1/4/18): Swapped both memory chips on ESD bench under microscope & cleaned flux off to inspect my work. I put the 25FW406A back on the failed board and the 25X40ALS33 original memory device on the replacement swap board because...why not? I didn't even think to look up SATA connector pinout but I checked the MOSFET/Diode chips with DMM in diode mode, and 2 or 3 SMT diodes. All measurements extremely close between both boards. Checked both leads polarities to be sure I saw everything I could. I also measured the three motor contacts in resistance mode for some reason instead of diode (remember, motor is not present with board removed from drive frame). Oddly, failed drive started giving me different results on each measurement (DMM charging up MOSFET gate capacitance?). Initial measurements were something like 20, 15, 15 ohms. I checked the replacement board and consistently got 11 ohms among all combinations of pin pairs. The failed board eventually stopped changing and all measured about 50 ohms. Odd but I never place bets on in-circuit measurements. I saw nothing alarming and the discrete diodes and measurements of MOSFET/Schottky chips all matched between both boards within a few mV in diode mode.

Step 5: (Today) Check-in and sanity check questions for anyone still awake after reading this.

Am I ready to reinstall the failed drive and power it up?
Is it OK to do this without expert software or Acelab hardware?
Any risks?
Does this sound more like a non-rotatable motor or some other scenario given board has no sign of distress?
What next?

Thank you

Murray :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 4th, 2018, 22:34 
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Joined: October 16th, 2013, 13:21
Posts: 713
Location: Brazil
If your soldering job was ok, and you swapped the right chips, there should be no problem installing the board in the drive and testing it.

It would have been better to try to get a terminal log before swapping chips, but you can do that now with the new board.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 5th, 2018, 13:30 
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Joined: August 18th, 2010, 17:35
Posts: 3636
Location: Massachusetts, USA
What were the chips swapped? Pic is best.

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 5th, 2018, 15:01 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 15463
Location: Australia
LE25FW406, Sanyo, 512K x 8-bit SPI serial flash memory, 2.7 - 3.6V:
http://www.rom.by/files/LE25FW406_v2_3_e.pdf

I have several collections of datasheets at the following URLs. (Their organisation has become a bit sloppy over time.)

Assorted Datasheets for SSD / Flash / HDD / Bridges:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=1577

Datasheets for HDD memory ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=90

Datasheets for HDD motor controller ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=91

Datasheets for HDD preamplifiers :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=92

Datasheets for HDD RAM ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=93

Datasheets for HDD semiconductors, regulators, op-amps:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=94

Datasheets for HDD read channel ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=95

HDD Generic ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=96

Datasheets for HDD memory ICs including EEPROM, EPROM, flash:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=11

PCB protection devices:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=1615

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 3:16 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
Thanks for all the replies.

I put the 25FW406A back on the failed board and the 25X40ALS33 original memory device on the replacement board. So the replacement board now has whatever critical/specific info.

I didn’t do the terminal log thing because I didn’t know what it was.

Is there something diagnostic I should do before doing a ‘naive’ test (installing the old memory-new board on the drive and seeing if it will boot), or look at it with something like UBCD?

Also, does the board cause the symptoms I described without any evidence if overheating, or does that raise the possibility the motor isn’t rotatable?

Thanks

Murray


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 8:40 
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Joined: October 16th, 2013, 13:21
Posts: 713
Location: Brazil
Your initial post was a little heavy in the parallel details but lacking some important information. Model #s of the drive(s) and good pictures of the board and label would be useful to help in the diagnosing. Also, it is always better to make tests using a real computer, not usb adapters, to avoid power issues.

You can use a TTL adapter and get a terminal log of the board, even without the rest of the disk attached. Post the log here, and someone may be able to spot some important condition.

In case the TTL adapter is not available, and if the data in the disk is not deemed *that* important, then you can proceed with "Plan B".

Take the "new" drive that is with the previously non-working board. Connect it just to the power supply of a real computer ( not a usb-thing ) and see if it runs.

In case it runs, repeat the test with your hdd. See if it runs. Maybe it will run, then you can proceed to reconnect cables, boot from a LiveCD or usb disk, and make a copy of the drive´s contents.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 12:19 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
OK...

I found a lot of Seagate serial port web content but an Itosaka (I sent myself a link & have it even if I spelled it wrong here (touchscreen on phone can make my spelling deteriorate) site with 45 pages of Seagate diag port instrux looks potentially helpful, and an elabz


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 12:27 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
Oops

Site had multiple,probably helpful, things.

I’ll work on finding a serial port access tool, (beg, borrow, build or buy) that hopefully bypasses any distractions like
programming a microcontroller. That would be OK but for another day (month, year). I do have a TI MSP430 USB ‘stick’ kit (earliest model I think) but honestly have no idea where it is this year.

I can post pics too because there might be benefits other than less keyboard dysentery from me


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 15:06 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
Ok...lots of things to get done today that ARE my problem, so this is getting pushed toward tomorrow in my schedule. Both PCB’s are still in ESD bags. I’ll take photos before reassembly because they are accessible then install & power up.

If the does come up normally I’ll start thinking about drive copying methods...have not had good luck with past attempts with Ghost or an Acronis product I bought the wrong option for my misguided vision of that era. It wouldn’t let me reinstall on a different PC a year later so I haven’t looked back.

Thanks again & I’ll update with drive behavior within a day, I think.

Looks like this site has a photo directory or maybe I misunderstood & Google Photos will suffice.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 15:09 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
Phone typing...can’t even understand my own posts!
By ‘...MY problem’ I mean I’m helping someone with the dead drive.

Word missing: “...if the (drive) comes up ok...”


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 7th, 2018, 22:01 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
Original board shown. I didn't see a point in showing the replacement which has the same p/n & Rev. despite some different components and a mfr. name (Dynamic) and p/n.

Can't really read all p/n's in cellphone photos so just note that the only discoloration is tarnished silver plating. I only cleaned (white Staedtler drafting eraser) the areas that mate with the motor contacts and the DIL connector on the hard drive chassis...potential ESD source but I couldn't see another way to do it...


Attachments:
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920D5D2F-B5A6-4F76-B794-571ADF28B72D.jpg
920D5D2F-B5A6-4F76-B794-571ADF28B72D.jpg [ 487.07 KiB | Viewed 10281 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 7th, 2018, 22:03 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
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Location: MIUSA
slightly different illumination


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 7th, 2018, 22:05 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
The "O" written on the board is for 'Original' (how original!). "R" on the "Replacement".

Can't read memory marking but it is "25X40ALS33".

That's lousy soldering for me, but it's good enough.

Hopefully power up Monday night.

Attachment:
9B72338F-BFC8-4DFF-8577-AEDF69C645C5.jpg
9B72338F-BFC8-4DFF-8577-AEDF69C645C5.jpg [ 117.06 KiB | Viewed 10280 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 7th, 2018, 22:31 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
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Location: MIUSA
I downloaded ddrescue & HDDSuperclone but they both appear to be for Linux platforms.

I trashed Windows 10 trying to install Ubuntu Studio last time (my error-let's not go there)...so I haven't tried again since reinstalling Windows 7. I can run Linux from a Live CD, but am not sure if I can find the Linux tools in the Windows 7 partition afterward...or maybe I just find & download them again while running Linux.

Install board & power up first. Worry about cloning later.

I have disassembled dozens of hard drives just to take them apart...I wonder how long a drive would survive if I pulled the spindle motor and platters out and relocated them to a drive with good heads, all lacking a clean room (or declare my house a Class 100000 clean room) (bad joke)...long enough to copy data? Moving the whole motor & stack of platters seems safest way to keep everything aligned.

I have the failed drive and a pair of two more Barracuda 7200.12 320 GB drives. The 3rd on has different firmware and I haven't looked at the board yet.

Back up a few steps & not go there yet...


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 8th, 2018, 13:01 
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Joined: June 8th, 2006, 19:44
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Location: Atlanta, GA
If you want to play the odds, a clicking 7200.12 drive that powers down is most always a head crash / media damage issue. Usually H0 or H1.

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 8th, 2018, 20:45 
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Location: MIUSA
0) I installed the board from the failed drive with the replacement board’s 25FW406A memory chip onto the matching ‘ donor drive’ and powered it up with a Cables To Go USB-SATA adapter. It spins up. The adapter was given to me in uncertain condition, so that may be why I could not detect it plugged into a W7 USB PORT.

1) I installed the replacement board with the original 25X40ALS33 memory chip onto the failed drive with the CTG SATA-USB adapter & powered it up...makes the same pulsing sound burst...to me it sounds nothing like clicking but it made that sound 22 times in one minute then stopped. Powered off then back on and it started doing the same thing.

Not great news, but I guess it’s better tuan no response at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 8th, 2018, 20:46 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
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I recorded the sound but am not sure if I can export the Voice Memo recording from my phone,


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 8th, 2018, 22:00 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
I am not seeing my earlier post from tonight, but half the time I get a messa


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 8th, 2018, 23:55 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
My initial interpretation was that it is attempting to spin, does not, and the motor drive is interrupted, a delay occurs, and the cycle repeats. Today I observed 22 attempts in 60 seconds that seemed to be equally spaced.

So it seems it is beyond the possibility of a home recovery effort.

The guy who owns the PC is in his 70's, living a very simple retirement and balked at the no-guarantee cost estimate he got from the local electronic appliance store.

Any recommendations for a reputable service would be helpful to have as options.

It seems options for recovery are A) professional $$$ option, B) do nothing and have virtual data loss, C) take the two replacement drives, install Windows on one, set up the 2nd for auto-backup, then store the failed drive until a winning lottery ticket appears, and D) ???

I think I'll suggest we take Option C...

Thanks all, and to Spildit Obrigado e boa noite


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 9th, 2018, 3:23 
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Location: France
Quote:
I downloaded ddrescue & HDDSuperclone but they both appear to be for Linux platforms. I trashed Windows 10 trying to install Ubuntu Studio last time (my error-let's not go there)...so I haven't tried again since reinstalling Windows 7. I can run Linux from a Live CD, but am not sure if I can find the Linux tools in the Windows 7 partition afterward...or maybe I just find & download them again while running Linux.

Yes you can download and install stuff on a live CD, DVD, or better yet flash drive (or SD card) Linux system. Many common distributions include ddrescue (although not always the most recent one, the basic functionality should be the same, but some commands have changed so you might be confused when reading a tutorial for instance). On HDDSuperClone's website there's currently a Lubuntu-based distribution named HDDLiveCD with both HDDSuperClone and ddrescue included.
If you want your system to be perfectly safe, fool-proof and Murphy's-Law-proof, use another machine, an old desktop collecting dust in the basement, or a secondary laptop that someone could lend you for a while. When using two machines, for convenience, I run the secondary one from the main one using TeamViewer – there may be a more standard setup, but it works fine (just have to install TeamViewer package). Or if you only got one you can remove the HDD or SSD from your computer, to be sure that it won't be touched at all even in case of a mistake, and put it back once it's finished. Just connect the source HDD, the recovery HDD, and the flash drive. (And double-check, triple-check before running the command, exchanging just two characters can lead to a disaster ! :shock:)

Quote:
I have disassembled dozens of hard drives just to take them apart...I wonder how long a drive would survive if I pulled the spindle motor and platters out and relocated them to a drive with good heads, all lacking a clean room (or declare my house a Class 100000 clean room) (bad joke)...long enough to copy data? Moving the whole motor & stack of platters seems safest way to keep everything aligned.

I'll let the pros who do “open heart surgery” every day reply to that one but... in a nutshell... zissizbadaïdee ! o_O


EDIT : Sorry, I hadn't seen that there was a second page... :oops:


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