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 Post subject: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 4th, 2018, 21:13 
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Hi:

I did some searching first but think I really need to preview what I've done before powering up a SATA drive after pre-prep and board/NV memory swap.

Apologies if I am the 100th person to ask the same thing & for the lengthy details. I personally think details are better but most people do not agree with me. I hope it helps someone else (even if to discourage following a bad path). The more I read about this the more I see what can go wrong if I don't prepare properly.

I offered to help a friend with a non-booting Dell Inspiron (560?) with a Barracuda 7200.12 320 GB drive. I said yes, being a tech (everything but PC's) and having swapped an IDE controller on a puny drive in the mid 90's successfully. As I began reading online, I realize how much things have changed! He wants to recover data to the extent possible. We can reinstall his OS from his media disks when we get to that point, on another drive.

Step 0: Observed drive won't spin up. I looked for all the dumb things like inoperative PC cooling fans etc. Pulled the drive and attempted powering it up with a USB cable drive multi-connector tool but remembered person who gave it to me wasn't sure it worked. I don't know what click-of-death/11-clicks urban legend symptom sounds like. This one makes a periodic attempt to run then stops, waits a few seconds then repeats. I only let it do so 2 or 3 times on each attempt, then tried another power source. The startup sound is to my ears more like an acoustic burst...a more complex sound than a click. I'm sure that helps a lot :roll: . Most confident power source attempt was a previously opened portable HDD so I took that apart & found I had a 7200.11 320 GB drive in there. No change in drive behavior. This gave me the idea to buy more of the same drive for Frankendrive efforts. I don't remember what I could see in the PC BIOS at boot attempt as it was mid December, like whether the drive was recognized.

Step 1: I bought two more of the same drive, erased & tested from an eBay HDD supplier. The only thing I had a clue initially to try to match was the firmware. I said one match would be great; didn't care about 2nd, for Plan B (which I think is a bad idea now, so I won't mention it) They were able to provide one with same firmware and I later found the controller PC boards match both p/n and Rev. Slight variations in semiconductor markings. Inoperative drive is Barracuda ST3320418AS, 7200.12, board is 100535704 Rev. B. Before delivery, seller advised I change the serial memory chip if there was one, or send back for free assessment & possible $60 repair. Told me several 25xxxxxx type p/n's to look for on IC and to look for burn marks.

Step 2: Drives arrived. One of them had identical drive p/n, firmware, board p/n and Rev. Datecode was a few digits off. Original failed drive PCB has absolutely no signs of burning or other distress, just cigarette smoke residue and tarnished silver-plating on board traces. I cleaned them as I considered attempting powering it back up with the same board. Inspected under microscope. Board looks great. I hope that doesn't mean spindle motor is seized. I hope that a tarnished connection only allowing two of three motor phases connected could prevent startup (wishful thinking).

Step 3: I decided to not try reassembly with cleaned board...seemed too simple a solution and probably based on laziness. Yesterday I attempted finding datasheets for the three IC's that differed on the two otherwise same-marked boards. DRAM were different but I didn't care. Slight marking variation on 3rd or 4th line on main controller QFP IC...I don't care. Some slight difference on SMOOTH motion profile small QFP IC...don't care; I can't change it myself anyway. Original board had 4184P SOIC-8 MOSFET+Schottky diode combination. New board had SP8U36 (I think). I couldn't find that one so I stopped caring. Original board had Winbond 25X40ALS33 and new board had 25FW406A. I spent WAY too much time trying to find datasheets in English to compare them. FYI: You need to prefix Winbond p/n with W which is not on device top marking (per datasheets). Closest I could find was 25X40ALSN. There are excess inventory chip vendors sellers out there with 'ALS32 and 'ALS33 but no datasheet found. New board had 25FW406A 29 9YG03 marked part. I eventually figured out a couple prefix letters but only found 403 and 806 family data...maybe too old or customer-specific build...don't care now. I figured out both parts are in 2.3-3.6 VDC range and seem to be 4 MB so I am less worried about compatibility.

Step 4 (today 1/4/18): Swapped both memory chips on ESD bench under microscope & cleaned flux off to inspect my work. I put the 25FW406A back on the failed board and the 25X40ALS33 original memory device on the replacement swap board because...why not? I didn't even think to look up SATA connector pinout but I checked the MOSFET/Diode chips with DMM in diode mode, and 2 or 3 SMT diodes. All measurements extremely close between both boards. Checked both leads polarities to be sure I saw everything I could. I also measured the three motor contacts in resistance mode for some reason instead of diode (remember, motor is not present with board removed from drive frame). Oddly, failed drive started giving me different results on each measurement (DMM charging up MOSFET gate capacitance?). Initial measurements were something like 20, 15, 15 ohms. I checked the replacement board and consistently got 11 ohms among all combinations of pin pairs. The failed board eventually stopped changing and all measured about 50 ohms. Odd but I never place bets on in-circuit measurements. I saw nothing alarming and the discrete diodes and measurements of MOSFET/Schottky chips all matched between both boards within a few mV in diode mode.

Step 5: (Today) Check-in and sanity check questions for anyone still awake after reading this.

Am I ready to reinstall the failed drive and power it up?
Is it OK to do this without expert software or Acelab hardware?
Any risks?
Does this sound more like a non-rotatable motor or some other scenario given board has no sign of distress?
What next?

Thank you

Murray :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 4th, 2018, 22:34 
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If your soldering job was ok, and you swapped the right chips, there should be no problem installing the board in the drive and testing it.

It would have been better to try to get a terminal log before swapping chips, but you can do that now with the new board.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 5th, 2018, 13:30 
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
What were the chips swapped? Pic is best.

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 5th, 2018, 15:01 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 10480
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LE25FW406, Sanyo, 512K x 8-bit SPI serial flash memory, 2.7 - 3.6V:
http://www.rom.by/files/LE25FW406_v2_3_e.pdf

I have several collections of datasheets at the following URLs. (Their organisation has become a bit sloppy over time.)

Assorted Datasheets for SSD / Flash / HDD / Bridges:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=1577

Datasheets for HDD memory ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=110&t=90

Datasheets for HDD motor controller ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=91

Datasheets for HDD preamplifiers :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=92

Datasheets for HDD RAM ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=93

Datasheets for HDD semiconductors, regulators, op-amps:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=94

Datasheets for HDD read channel ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=95

HDD Generic ICs :
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=96

Datasheets for HDD memory ICs including EEPROM, EPROM, flash:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=11

PCB protection devices:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=1615

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 3:16 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
Posts: 14
Location: MIUSA
Thanks for all the replies.

I put the 25FW406A back on the failed board and the 25X40ALS33 original memory device on the replacement board. So the replacement board now has whatever critical/specific info.

I didn’t do the terminal log thing because I didn’t know what it was.

Is there something diagnostic I should do before doing a ‘naive’ test (installing the old memory-new board on the drive and seeing if it will boot), or look at it with something like UBCD?

Also, does the board cause the symptoms I described without any evidence if overheating, or does that raise the possibility the motor isn’t rotatable?

Thanks

Murray


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 8:40 
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Joined: October 16th, 2013, 13:21
Posts: 678
Location: Brazil
Your initial post was a little heavy in the parallel details but lacking some important information. Model #s of the drive(s) and good pictures of the board and label would be useful to help in the diagnosing. Also, it is always better to make tests using a real computer, not usb adapters, to avoid power issues.

You can use a TTL adapter and get a terminal log of the board, even without the rest of the disk attached. Post the log here, and someone may be able to spot some important condition.

In case the TTL adapter is not available, and if the data in the disk is not deemed *that* important, then you can proceed with "Plan B".

Take the "new" drive that is with the previously non-working board. Connect it just to the power supply of a real computer ( not a usb-thing ) and see if it runs.

In case it runs, repeat the test with your hdd. See if it runs. Maybe it will run, then you can proceed to reconnect cables, boot from a LiveCD or usb disk, and make a copy of the drive´s contents.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 9:18 
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Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:49
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If you don't have a TTL adaptor with you just plug the drive with the new PCB + original ROM and see if it runs.

If the problem is still the same then you can rule out PCB problem.

I would say it's "safe" to attempt to use the drive with the new PCB. Just test it. If it start clicking or doing something strange just power it off.

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 12:19 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
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OK...

I found a lot of Seagate serial port web content but an Itosaka (I sent myself a link & have it even if I spelled it wrong here (touchscreen on phone can make my spelling deteriorate) site with 45 pages of Seagate diag port instrux looks potentially helpful, and an elabz


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 12:27 
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Joined: January 4th, 2018, 19:33
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Location: MIUSA
Oops

Site had multiple,probably helpful, things.

I’ll work on finding a serial port access tool, (beg, borrow, build or buy) that hopefully bypasses any distractions like
programming a microcontroller. That would be OK but for another day (month, year). I do have a TI MSP430 USB ‘stick’ kit (earliest model I think) but honestly have no idea where it is this year.

I can post pics too because there might be benefits other than less keyboard dysentery from me


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 12:29 
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murrayatuptown wrote:
OK...

I found a lot of Seagate serial port web content but an Itosaka (I sent myself a link & have it even if I spelled it wrong here (touchscreen on phone can make my spelling deteriorate) site with 45 pages of Seagate diag port instrux looks potentially helpful, and an elabz


Just test your drive with the new PCB first .....

Using 7200.11 commands like regen translator on 7200.12 drives is ... VERY BAD IDEA and you can loose your data for good.

Do use the TTL only to get the output from the drive !!! Do not issue commands to it !!!

Also your drive might have heads/media problems or spindle problems so terminal will be of no use if that is the case,

Star with the new PCB.

TTL info :

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=192

And here :

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=193

Commands for F3 drives (like yours) :

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 12:30 
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murrayatuptown wrote:
Oops

Site had multiple,probably helpful, things.

I’ll work on finding a serial port access tool, (beg, borrow, build or buy) that hopefully bypasses any distractions like
programming a microcontroller. That would be OK but for another day (month, year). I do have a TI MSP430 USB ‘stick’ kit (earliest model I think) but honestly have no idea where it is this year.

I can post pics too because there might be benefits other than less keyboard dysentery from me


Just start by testing with the new PCB. If it works and the drive spins ok without clicking then the problem was related to PCB.

If the drive does click 11 times or so then probably heads/pre-amp are damaged and terminal will not help you at all as drive will need clean room service by a pro.

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 12:32 
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I did just re-read the post and by periodic attempt to spin it might be a PCB problem, a spindle problem, heads stuck to the platter, etc ....

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 12:45 
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Just make sure you have a known good power supply and power the drive up even if you don't connect the SATA cable. Does the drive spins up ok now with the new PCB ? Does it make sound of heads calibrating ?

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 15:06 
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Ok...lots of things to get done today that ARE my problem, so this is getting pushed toward tomorrow in my schedule. Both PCB’s are still in ESD bags. I’ll take photos before reassembly because they are accessible then install & power up.

If the does come up normally I’ll start thinking about drive copying methods...have not had good luck with past attempts with Ghost or an Acronis product I bought the wrong option for my misguided vision of that era. It wouldn’t let me reinstall on a different PC a year later so I haven’t looked back.

Thanks again & I’ll update with drive behavior within a day, I think.

Looks like this site has a photo directory or maybe I misunderstood & Google Photos will suffice.


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 15:09 
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Phone typing...can’t even understand my own posts!
By ‘...MY problem’ I mean I’m helping someone with the dead drive.

Word missing: “...if the (drive) comes up ok...”


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 6th, 2018, 16:02 
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To clone drives you can use ddrescue or HDDSuperClone (lacking hardware imaging/cloning tools).

Good luck.

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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 7th, 2018, 22:01 
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Original board shown. I didn't see a point in showing the replacement which has the same p/n & Rev. despite some different components and a mfr. name (Dynamic) and p/n.

Can't really read all p/n's in cellphone photos so just note that the only discoloration is tarnished silver plating. I only cleaned (white Staedtler drafting eraser) the areas that mate with the motor contacts and the DIL connector on the hard drive chassis...potential ESD source but I couldn't see another way to do it...


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 7th, 2018, 22:03 
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slightly different illumination


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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 7th, 2018, 22:05 
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The "O" written on the board is for 'Original' (how original!). "R" on the "Replacement".

Can't read memory marking but it is "25X40ALS33".

That's lousy soldering for me, but it's good enough.

Hopefully power up Monday night.

Attachment:
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 Post subject: Re: Sanity check/questions @ step 6: 7200.12 recovery newbie
PostPosted: January 7th, 2018, 22:31 
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I downloaded ddrescue & HDDSuperclone but they both appear to be for Linux platforms.

I trashed Windows 10 trying to install Ubuntu Studio last time (my error-let's not go there)...so I haven't tried again since reinstalling Windows 7. I can run Linux from a Live CD, but am not sure if I can find the Linux tools in the Windows 7 partition afterward...or maybe I just find & download them again while running Linux.

Install board & power up first. Worry about cloning later.

I have disassembled dozens of hard drives just to take them apart...I wonder how long a drive would survive if I pulled the spindle motor and platters out and relocated them to a drive with good heads, all lacking a clean room (or declare my house a Class 100000 clean room) (bad joke)...long enough to copy data? Moving the whole motor & stack of platters seems safest way to keep everything aligned.

I have the failed drive and a pair of two more Barracuda 7200.12 320 GB drives. The 3rd on has different firmware and I haven't looked at the board yet.

Back up a few steps & not go there yet...


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