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 Post subject: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 18th, 2018, 3:36 
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So I have an old 85MB Conner CP2088 which was last spun up maybe 10 years ago. Now it spins up but does not become visible.

Here is a video of an identical drive spinning up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjlcpgkn34
The drive chatters for a little while after spinning up, my drive did this too for many years when it was working.
So I believe the drive in the video is working normally.

My drive however, spins up, makes the chattering noise... then after a few seconds makes it again... then after a few more seconds makes it again... and so on until power off. It never becomes visible.

So I'm wondering, does this repeating chattering mean:
(1) likely a problem on the PCB (replacing the PCB with a donor PCB may help).
(2) likely a problem with damaged heads or media (replacing the PCB probably will NOT help.)
(3) not possible to say one way or the other.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Rling


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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 20th, 2018, 13:37 
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Joined: May 15th, 2018, 18:46
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Can you record the chattering sound by any chance and share the link to the sound?

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 20th, 2018, 14:44 
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MasterHDD wrote:
Can you record the chattering sound by any chance and share the link to the sound?

@MasterHDD Did you read the post, and listen to the video that the OP posted a link to? Maybe if you weren't a spammer you would actually provide a useful post at some point in time. And yes, I just said that and meant it :evil:
I dare you to prove me wrong :|

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 20th, 2018, 15:12 
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Joined: January 29th, 2012, 1:43
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Dang, I didn't even catch the big picture.

User joins two days ago and posts a somewhat generic question with a link to a youtube video that simply is a similar drive coming up. Then two days later a suspected spammer replies with a question that is totally useless.

If anyone else can see this, please help ban the very useless user MasterHDD. I actually sent a message to the company in his signature awhile ago asking if he was actually representing their company on this forum. I used their online form, not a direct email, so as to be sure to get through to them. I never received a response.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 20th, 2018, 19:03 
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Joined: January 29th, 2012, 1:43
Posts: 478
Location: United States
Rling wrote:
So I have an old 85MB Conner CP2088 which was last spun up maybe 10 years ago. Now it spins up but does not become visible.

Here is a video of an identical drive spinning up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFjlcpgkn34
The drive chatters for a little while after spinning up, my drive did this too for many years when it was working.
So I believe the drive in the video is working normally.

My drive however, spins up, makes the chattering noise... then after a few seconds makes it again... then after a few more seconds makes it again... and so on until power off. It never becomes visible.

So I'm wondering, does this repeating chattering mean:
(1) likely a problem on the PCB (replacing the PCB with a donor PCB may help).
(2) likely a problem with damaged heads or media (replacing the PCB probably will NOT help.)
(3) not possible to say one way or the other.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Rling

I suppose I should take a break from ranting and give an answer to the question, assuming the post is genuine. Most likely #2. Any time a drive repeats its normal startup sounds over and over again, it is because it could not finish initializing. Usually that would indicate a bad head or media. But there is one other possibility, and that is the power supply. A weak power supply or connection can cause the same symptoms. Since this in an old drive, how are you connecting it? Are you using a USB adapter with an external power supply? If so, I would suspect that first.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 20th, 2018, 19:08 
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Joined: October 16th, 2013, 13:21
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+1 for power supply weakness.


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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 20th, 2018, 19:13 
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There is one other possibility, although less likely. That is an old drive that is CHS only. It is possible that whatever it is connected to is not happy with that, and keeps initiating a hard reset because it thinks there is something wrong. Less likely, but possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 20th, 2018, 19:19 
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Joined: October 16th, 2013, 13:21
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Yeah, we forgot to ask the OP exactly how and to what he was connecting it. If it is a laptop with a ide usb adapter, More so it it is one of those adapters that only work for cd drives.


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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 20th, 2018, 19:32 
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Also, any modern Windows OS will not recognize that old CHS drive even if it is working properly. Maybe XP, but for sure nothing newer. You would need to use Linux to access the drive. Just about any Linux live CD would work. But to be clear, that would not cause the reported issue. But a USB adapter would likely choke trying to connect to that old drive, as most will not be able to handle the CHS, and that could be causing the issue (if not a power supply issue).

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 22nd, 2018, 21:34 
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Joined: July 18th, 2018, 2:53
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Location: Australia
Gosh! I've opened a can of worms. First up let me say it's a genuine question, and I'm a genuine newbie and I don't know anyone else who posts here :D

Anyway my drive sound is EXACTLY like the one in the video. Just that mine has started doing it over and over.

The drive is connected using a USB to ATA/ATAPI bridge based on JMicron chipset. I'm using a double-headed USB cable, so I'm hopeful it can supply enough current. I don't really have any other way to both power and read the drive. I've used the same bridge with two other drives of similar age, both 40 MB Seagate ST9051A, which are also CHS drives. Windows recognised that those drives were present, though they appeared as zero-sized "unknown" drives in disk management. The Conner doesn't even get to that stage.

It's a shame that this is most likely internal damage - I already did a successful PCB transfer on the ST9051As because one of them had PCB damage and kept cycling the spindle motor. I was thinking of trying the same thing on the Conner, but didn't want to try to find an identical model if an expert could tell me in 5 seconds that it was internal damage.

I might try to find a PC with built-in IDE port, just to be really sure it's not lack of power.

Thanks to all who answered, and I'm sorry if it's too much of a noob question! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 22nd, 2018, 21:43 
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Joined: October 16th, 2013, 13:21
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Location: Brazil
There IS lack of power. There may be other problems also, but power is lacking.

This drives need 12V. If your adapter is using just two usb cables as a power source, then it is not enough.

You would need at least one of those adapters with a separate power supply, but given the higher demands on current from those old drives, and the other cases you mention where the disks didn´t work, along with the problems of usb bridges and newer computers not recognizing corretcly CHS drives, it seems you are having problems with the setup used.

Try to get a common pc, with real ide ports, to try and connect those drives. There may still be the problem of CHS versus LBA , but at lest the drives will be correctly energized.


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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 23rd, 2018, 17:19 
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Posts: 478
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When looking up the specifications for this drive, it does not require 12v. That does not mean there isn't a power problem though, the only way to find that out would be to connect it to a computer directly.

So was the drive fully functional when it was stored? Or was it removed from a computer that was not working correctly? Could it have been mishandled (dropped) sometime while it was in storage? Was it stored someplace damp and/or with a large temperature variance?

One other possibility if the drive was fully functional when it was stored, maybe there is some corrosion on the contacts between the board and the drive. I believe I have read that those can be cleaned with something like a pencil eraser, but don't quote me on that one.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 23rd, 2018, 17:57 
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Ooops, yes, it is a 2.5in drive, so no 12V.


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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 23rd, 2018, 18:14 
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@Rling, does the PCB have an indicator LED or a connector for same? Sometimes these LEDs will output error codes.

Would you indulge my curiosity by uploading a photo of the PCB? A CCD scan would be even better.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 23rd, 2018, 20:12 
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I want to take a moment to go back to my rant. I did some more research, and found new references to MasterHDD (Yevgeniy Kapishon). He claims to be an engineer and blogger writer for the company referenced in his signature. I suspected a blogger spammer, because almost all of the posts made were totally useless and looked like they were made by someone that was not really trying to help, but just making posts to spam something. He originally recommended some very crappy software in a couple posts, making me think he was a total spammer for that software. Now I understand the (my) problem and why I seem to not like him… he is an engineer (or so claimed) and I am a technician, and we all know how well technicians like engineers ;)

@MasterHDD, you should stick to writing your blogs… someplace else. Because you are giving the company you are trying to represent a bad name on here. You seem to be just making generic posts to try to spam your company’s name in your signature. But I can say for sure, if you truly are the representative for that company, I would NEVER EVER recommend anyone use your services! Quit trying to post in a technical forum with posts that show that you don’t pay any attention to the actual post, and also don’t really know what you are talking about. If you want to help, or learn, then post as such. Because every time you make posts that are totally useless, you are not helping yourself at all, and are just coming across as the blogger spammer that you appear to be. Your post here was a prime example of uselessness. The OP gave a link that has sound, and explained very well that in his case, that sound was repeating. And yet you asked for a recording of the sound. Useless…

Sorry, just trying to explain myself and my rant against MasterHDD. But I don’t like spammers, and he has set me off on that.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 23rd, 2018, 21:07 
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maximus wrote:
Now I understand the (my) problem and why I seem to not like him… he is an engineer (or so claimed) and I am a technician, and we all know how well technicians like engineers ;)

https://hr-gazette.com/business-and-data-recovery-strategies/
Quote:
Hello, my name is Yevgeniy Kapishon and I am the engineer, creative director and the writer for ADRS® Aesonlabs Data Recovery Systems which specializes in professional data recovery services provided both to individuals and businesses of all sizes around Canada and United States of America. I hold a Masters Degree in Electrical Engineering from the Ryerson University of Toronto and have over 12 years of experience in the field and the data recovery industry.

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 23rd, 2018, 21:10 
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fzabkar wrote:
@Rling, does the PCB have an indicator LED or a connector for same? Sometimes these LEDs will output error codes.

Would you indulge my curiosity by uploading a photo of the PCB? A CCD scan would be even better.

@fzabkar I'm glad you are curious about this drive :) I'll try to upload some scans/photos, but I hope you can wait a few days!

@maximus It doesn't have an LED onboard. The interfaces are documented at https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/hard-drive ... DE-AT.html

The contacts between the PCB and housing look as shiny as the day it was new :) So do the interface pins. I gave them all a gentle clean anyway with no effect. The drives have been in storage for years, and been through a few house moves. So anything of what you say is possible, no way to know unfortunately.

I have known for a few years that this drive was not working, but can't remember the detail.

Thanks again for the help, everyone.
I'm still looking for a PC with IDE interface.


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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 24th, 2018, 17:01 
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It's in Russian, but you might be able to work out how to connect to your drive's serial diagnostic port, assuming it has one:

http://www.acelab.ru/dep.pc/doc.pc3000dos/050530.001/Pcconer.pdf
http://www.acelab.ru/dep.pc/information.php

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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 30th, 2018, 18:17 
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Joined: July 18th, 2018, 2:53
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Location: Australia
@fzabkar,
Here are some images of the CP-2088 PCB.
The back side came out pretty well in the flat-bed scanner.
The front side was completely out of focus, except the very tips of the pins which were perfect :-)
So I took a photo of that side.


Attachments:
CP2088-2.JPG
CP2088-2.JPG [ 3.86 MiB | Viewed 1085 times ]
CP2088-1.JPG
CP2088-1.JPG [ 1.07 MiB | Viewed 1085 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Old Conner CP2088 - what does this noise mean?
PostPosted: July 30th, 2018, 18:23 
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Joined: July 18th, 2018, 2:53
Posts: 6
Location: Australia
Just another note, I found a machine with 2.5" IDE interface and the drive gives a similar problem.
It spins up OK and remains quiet until accessed. But as soon as it is accessed it starts the repeating chattering sound.
I tested with another known good drive which works fine, so it's not the interface.
So I've pretty much given up on this drive. But you can indulge your curiosity if you like ;-)

Thanks to all!
Rling


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