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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 27th, 2018, 18:53 
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If there had been an overvoltage event, then the TVS diodes (D4 or D3) would have been shorted.

TVS diode FAQ:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=100&t=86

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 27th, 2018, 19:42 
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fzabkar,

Thanks. I did check that when I looked around and it wasn't shorted. I'm just sort of worried that since my problems all occurred with that CD explosion,etc., it would be a bit too much coincidence to be one of the usual PCB failures. Still plan to follow that anyhow just to be sure.

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 27th, 2018, 20:24 
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It could be a red herring, but the hot spot on the MCU is tantalisingly close to the R/W channel pins. It would be interesting to see whether working HDDs have the same hot spot in the foam. If so, then this might be indicative of thermal problems that result in progressive, rather than sudden, failure.

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 27th, 2018, 23:58 
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Spildit wrote:
Now if you can use WDMarvel in IDE mode just "detect" a known good drive and when you do confirm that it's working it's time to power off the known good drive to replace it with the damaged drive.

Got this set up earlier, but I'm not sure I'm doing everything correctly as none of the boxes in the "Drive" section are getting filled in on detect. On launch, it scans and finds six controllers (4-Intel,2-Marvell Semiconductor). The first (SATA-0) system drive is a Seagate, and I can detect and get a few of the boxes filled for that on the first of the four Intels. The two Marvells don't detect anything.

Right now, on SATA-5 is that duplicate WD320. It's brand new and uninitialized if that makes any difference. The BIOS sees it fine, and is set for IDE mode with SMART turned off. WDMarvel is also in IDE. In the device manager, I get three Primary Channels, three Secondary Channels, and three Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controllers. The first of the secondaries seemed to be where the WD was showing up. I set it for PIO and disabled it before running WDMarvel. The WD drive then disappears from the disk management console. This is all under Windows XPsp3.

I'll try to read up some on WDMarvel unless someone spots something I'm doing wrong.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 0:36 
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I did manage to get a regular IDE WD 20G drive detected. It fills out everything but the "Family" box. Problem is, it seems to read and save zero byte size flash ROM dumps in the Default\PZU folder, which I guess isn't right. It does claim that the ROM was successfully read.


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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 8:26 
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Jidis wrote:
Spildit- Are the board failures you guys are referring to typically the result of some sort of event, like in my case, or do they just go out randomly on their own?

Thanks!

<EDIT> Also, thanks for the voltage details fzabkar. Just saw the reply.


They just go out randomly on their own ...

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 8:30 
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Jidis wrote:
I did manage to get a regular IDE WD 20G drive detected. It fills out everything but the "Family" box. Problem is, it seems to read and save zero byte size flash ROM dumps in the Default\PZU folder, which I guess isn't right. It does claim that the ROM was successfully read.


What is the MODEL of that WD 20 GB drive ?

Most likely it's a WDC MCU based (not Marvell MCU) and if so WDMarvel will no properly work with it. That is why you can't properly dump ROM and see the family info.

Try with a newer drive.

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 8:32 
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Jidis wrote:
Spildit wrote:
Now if you can use WDMarvel in IDE mode just "detect" a known good drive and when you do confirm that it's working it's time to power off the known good drive to replace it with the damaged drive.

Got this set up earlier, but I'm not sure I'm doing everything correctly as none of the boxes in the "Drive" section are getting filled in on detect. On launch, it scans and finds six controllers (4-Intel,2-Marvell Semiconductor). The first (SATA-0) system drive is a Seagate, and I can detect and get a few of the boxes filled for that on the first of the four Intels. The two Marvells don't detect anything.

Right now, on SATA-5 is that duplicate WD320. It's brand new and uninitialized if that makes any difference. The BIOS sees it fine, and is set for IDE mode with SMART turned off. WDMarvel is also in IDE. In the device manager, I get three Primary Channels, three Secondary Channels, and three Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controllers. The first of the secondaries seemed to be where the WD was showing up. I set it for PIO and disabled it before running WDMarvel. The WD drive then disappears from the disk management console. This is all under Windows XPsp3.

I'll try to read up some on WDMarvel unless someone spots something I'm doing wrong.

Thanks!


Maybe your system is setting those SATA ports as "slave" ? Try to detect the same drives with Victoria for windows instead.

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 8:33 
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Try to change the "master" "slave" setting on WDMarvel as well at drive detection ...

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 10:45 
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Spildit wrote:
What is the MODEL of that WD 20 GB drive ?
That was a Caviar 200AA (detects as WDC WD200AA).
I also tried a Protege WD200, which detects as WDC WD200EB-11BHF0.
They both give me that empty ROM dump. That controller list looks the same each time, with four Intels and two Marvell Semiconductors. Is that normal? I haven't tried it with anything other than a WD for the target drive.
Spildit wrote:
Maybe your system is setting those SATA ports as "slave" ? Try to detect the same drives with Victoria for windows instead.
Will start looking into that. FWIW, the SATA 320 does indeed show up as "device 1" rather than "0" on that secondary channel. I haven't tried connecting stuff to different SATA ports though. Just been using 0 for system and 5 for target.

Much Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 11:17 
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Well, swapping the SATA ports seems to have done the trick as far as the new 320G SATA one goes. I guess they're in pairs of master/slave. I put it on the "0" port where the system drive was. For some reason, it's detected under that first "Intel" entry, where the Seagate was before, so I guess the list always looks like that.

The detection reads:

model - WD3200AAKS-61L9A0
serial - WD-WCAV2S261388
fw - 01.03E01 05.F9E
family - Pinnacle Lite (Royl)

The dump seems to have read OK (on the second try for some reason), and I get a 192k file. Nothing recognizable in it, but I do see "ROYL" in the last few bytes, so I'm guessing it's OK.

I'll start working on that hot swap thing, but it sounds scary, so I'll take it slow. I'd also rather not spin that drive up any more than I have to.

Thanks Again!


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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 14:20 
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You can use my tool to verify the integrity of your ROM dump. It runs in a Windows DOS box.

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/temp/wdROMv12.exe
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/temp/wdROMv12.bas

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 15:11 
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Thanks fzabkar,

Does this output file look good?


Attachments:
ROManalysis.zip [1.49 KiB]
Downloaded 33 times
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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 15:16 
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Yes, all good.

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 17:50 
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- Caviar 200AA and Protege WD200 are old drives with WDC MCU and NOT Marvell. If you check the PCB you will see they don't have a Marvell MCU and that is why WDMarvell doesn't dump ROM or do anything of use on those as the VSCs are different from the ones used on Marvell based drives.

- The detection reads:

Quote:
model - WD3200AAKS-61L9A0
serial - WD-WCAV2S261388
fw - 01.03E01 05.F9E
family - Pinnacle Lite (Royl)


Are you getting this from the damaged drive or from another known working drive ? What is the PCB number of this working drive ?

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 17:54 
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You can try to plug the damaged drive to the computer port with the system already runnning and check if you can read ROM directly with WDMarvell ... Even on the clicking drive ...

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 18:04 
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Spildit wrote:
Are you getting this from the damaged drive or from another known working drive ? What is the PCB number of this working drive ?

Hi Spildit,

I should have specified. This was with the "known good" new one. The PCB is that one I mentioned on the last page, and not the same number as what's on the dead one. It's 2060-771590-001 rev P2. I haven't pulled it off to see what the top looks like, but I guess if they're incompatible it wouldn't matter anyhow.

I'll probably attempt a swap/dump off the bad one tonight.

Take Care


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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 22:23 
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Joined: October 22nd, 2018, 11:46
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Well, I think I got the dump off the bad one following Spildit's instructions. For some reason, after swapping, it only gets two of the boxes filled in, and on one of the first detects, the model and serial boxes were a bunch of gibberish characters. The rest of the time they stayed blank, and I'd only get the second of the two firmware boxes as 01.0JA and the family as Pinnacle (Royl) - not Pinnacle Lite (Royl) like the new one.

Here's the dump, along with the output of fzabkar's utility.

Thanks


Attachments:
BadDriveROM.zip [159.28 KiB]
Downloaded 34 times
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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 22:35 
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Looks good.

For confirmation, I found the following text string in one of the decompressed segments:

    WDC ROM MODEL-PINNACLE-

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 Post subject: Re: What am I up against (clicking drive with amnesia)?
PostPosted: October 28th, 2018, 22:41 
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Thanks fzabkar!


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