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 Post subject: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2020, 20:47 
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Posts: 18
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Hi all.
Long time, no post.
I've got a customers old PATA IDE hard disk.
Its a Seagate ST317221A (U8)
The PCB is SG22580-300 Rev A.
The drive doesn't power on.
Checking the drive, the Infineon controller chip has a scorch mark on the top of it.
The chip rapidly gets hot when power is briefly applied.

The chip is labelled:
SAB M3005-8D
40F ATLANTIS
SG70021-501
FRANCE BA/10
SIEMENS' 98
EC025084

I replaced the PCB with another SG22580-300 Rev A
The only difference in the chips is the new PCB, the last line is EC020018.

With the new PCB, the drive does not power on either.
No components get hot on this board.

Would this indicate a problem with the motor and/or heads?

Assuming I can get the drive to spin up, do I have to tranfer any ROM chips between boards like most later boards required.
If so, there does not appear to be any standard BIOS chip - no 8 pin chip anywhere.
I guess it may be integrated into the controller?

Or could it be either the 14 pin chip labelled ST 8008 324 PHIL, which I cannot find any info on?

Or the 16 pin chip labelled HC4050 D01SG n00SB, which looks like it may be a buffer chip?

Any help or advice greatly appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2020, 21:50 
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Your PCB doesn't appear to have any protection at the 5V input. Therefore I suspect that an overvoltage on the 5V supply may have been the reason for the damage to the MCU. I don't know how the preamp is powered, but I suspect that it may also be damaged.

If you isolate the HDA, does the drive then spin up?

What resistance do you measure between each pair of motor pins?

The ROM ("BIOS") chip is the Atmel AT49F1024 parallel flash memory.

The "ST B008 324 PHIL" appears to be a standard LM324 quad op amp.

"HC4050 D01SG n00SB" appears to be a 74HC4050 "hex non-inverting HIGH-to-LOW level shifter":

https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/74HC4050.pdf

The LX8117-33 chip is a 3.3V linear regulator.

Here is my datasheet database:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/Datasheets/DATAURLS.HTM

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2020, 23:52 
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Joined: April 27th, 2009, 1:08
Posts: 18
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
Hi fzabkar, and thank you for your information and advice.

Quote:
If you isolate the HDA, does the drive then spin up?

No.
No signs of life, no signs of the motor trying to spin, beeps, etc. just stone dead.

Quote:
What resistance do you measure between each pair of motor pins?

All three pins measure 5.5 ohms between each pin, i.e 1-2, 1-3, 2-3.
Which I assume isn't good?

Quote:
The ROM ("BIOS") chip is the Atmel AT49F1024 parallel flash memory.

Ah, thanks.
The only drives I've had to swap PCBs in, until today, all had an 8 pin chip.

Thanks for the information on those chips, by the way.

I'm guessing its an issue with the motor, as I assume the resistance readings are not right?
Thanks again, fzabkar
I appreciate it.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 24th, 2020, 0:16 
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Normally the motor winding resistances in newer drives are of the order of 1 or 2 ohms, so your readings are probably OK, especially as they are equal.

I don't know how your firmware behaves if the preamp cannot be detected. Some drives refuse to spin up if this is the case, whereas others will still spin when the HDA is isolated. Maybe yours is one of the former?

BTW it is unlikely that the motor has been damaged, as it is powered from the 12V supply.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 24th, 2020, 2:30 
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Joined: April 27th, 2009, 1:08
Posts: 18
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
Thanks again fzabkar.
Glad to hear the readings are probably OK, and that its unlikely the motor.

Not entirely sure how to proceed from here.

I've connected the new PCB to the drive, and measured the voltages going to the motor pins.
All three show around only 0.16 volts...

If I measure the voltages, from power off,
at the start, I measure 0V (obviously).
Then, about 5 seconds later, the voltage rises to around 0.16, then stays there, on all three pins.

This behaviour is the same, whether or not the HDA is isolated or not.

Not sure if this has much meaning for you.

I've checked various points on the PCB for different voltages.
I get 12v, 5v, 8v, 3.3v, etc, so power seems to be getting to the board.
Probably doesn't help diagnosis I realise, but thought I'd add it anyway.

Thanks once again for any further advice you can give.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 24th, 2020, 5:01 
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Some modern drives support Power Up In Standby (PUIS), but I don't know if it was supported in your model. However, that would be a remote possibility in any case.

I suspect that you measured 8V at the SOT-89 component marked "8G0N". That's probably one of the supplies for the preamp. The other supply is probably the 5V rail.

L78L08ACUTR, STMicroelectronics, linear regulator, 8V, 100mA, marking 8G, SOT-89:
https://www.st.com/resource/en/datasheet/l78l.pdf

I expect that the 3.3V supply would be the MCU's Vcore.

If you wish to measure the spindle motor current, there is a parallel array of 2R00 resistors (0.5 ohm total) adjacent to the LM324. The voltage across these resistors reflects the current drawn by the motor.

Measuring VCM and Spindle Motor Current:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=204

To give you an idea of the preamp inside the HDA ...

Preamp Block Diagrams:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=229

In short, I don't know if a dead preamp would cause your firmware to refuse to spin up the drive, but that's all I can think of, assuming your replacement PCB is OK.

BTW, here are hi-res photos of your PCB:

Seagate U8 ST38410A hires PCB photos:
http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=112&t=113

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 24th, 2020, 7:48 
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Joined: April 27th, 2009, 1:08
Posts: 18
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
Thanks once again fzabkar.
I'm not familiar with PUIS, despite being in the IT industry for 20 years... :)
But I'm familiar with similar power management related systems.
As you said, its probably unlikely to be related to this issue, and I agree, but I'll look into it nonetheless, just in case.

I'm at home right now, so I cant measure anything until tomorrow, BTW.
Its 9:42 PM AEST.

Quote:
I suspect that you measured 8V at the SOT-89

Yes, I can remember reading about 8v on a SOT-89, among various other pages, so you're probably spot on there!

Quote:
If you wish to measure the spindle motor current, there is a parallel array of 2R00 resistors (0.5 ohm total) adjacent to the LM324. The voltage across these resistors reflects the current drawn by the motor.

I'll check the current tomorrow, and I think I can remember seeing those 4 resistors while looking at the board earlier today.

Thanks, once again, fzabkar


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 24th, 2020, 16:55 
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You may be able to get some diagnostic information from the serial terminal port.

http://files.hddguru.com/download/PC-3000%20Support/Documents/PCSeagBara.pdf

There is an English version of the old terminal commands here:

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=166&t=663
http://www.hddoracle.com/download/file.php?id=443

You can buy a cheap CP2102 or CP2104 based USB-terminal adapter for less than US$5.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 24th, 2020, 23:36 
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Joined: September 30th, 2005, 7:33
Posts: 743
Did you swap the ROM chip when you change the PCB? On these drives this is a must.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 25th, 2020, 2:38 
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BGman wrote:
Did you swap the ROM chip when you change the PCB? On these drives this is a must.

It's a U8 model???

The ROMs in these two resources are identical:

https://files.hddguru.com/download/PC-3000%20Support/Firmware/Seagate/U-series%208/ST137221A-302-terminal.rar
https://files.hddguru.com/download/PC-3000%20Support/Firmware/Seagate/U-series%208/ST%20317221A-302.rar

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 25th, 2020, 2:54 
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Joined: September 30th, 2005, 7:33
Posts: 743
fzabkar wrote:
It's a U8 model???

Sorry. It was beyond my imagination..... :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 25th, 2020, 5:41 
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Joined: January 12th, 2016, 3:46
Posts: 136
Location: India
hi fzabkar
I would like to know role of alphabet in PCB no ( Rev.) and whether this Revision plays any role in ultimate PCB compatibility.
For example --

HDD family -- 7200.12 same
Model Nos --- Different
PN nos - Different
Firmware --- Different
PCB No -- Same
Revision -- Different.
so in this case for different models same PCB no. is there only Rev. is different. Are all of these PCB's intercompatible ?
Can you pls give your expert opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 25th, 2020, 15:24 
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@posidon, I can't answer your question, except to say that the 318AS and 413AS models have different DRAM capacities, even though their PCBs may be otherwise identical..

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 25th, 2020, 19:19 
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Joined: April 27th, 2009, 1:08
Posts: 18
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
Thanks again fzabkar
Sorry for the delayed reply.

OK.
I tried to connect via terminal yesterday, but I don't get any response.
I tested the USB-serial adapter and tx,rx and ground cabling on another, more recent drive, and could get information from that one, so I'm sure I've got the setup correct.
No response via terminal from this drive though.

Thanks BGman, I assumed I'll have to swap the ROM, but I also assumed that it still should spin up at least.... although that could be wrong.
Yes, its a U8 model. :)

@fzabkar
I'm fairly sure the PCB is OK.
I purchased it from a large data recovery company here in Australia.
All were meant to have been tested... but I cannot be 100% sure of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 25th, 2020, 21:15 
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@joshAU, I don't believe your PCB requires a ROM transfer. All you need to do is to match the model and firmware version. In any case your PCB supplier should have made you aware of any requirements.

Did you buy the PCB from Payam?

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 26th, 2020, 8:06 
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Joined: January 12th, 2016, 3:46
Posts: 136
Location: India
fzabkar wrote:
@posidon, I can't answer your question, except to say that the 318AS and 413AS models have different DRAM capacities, even though their PCBs may be otherwise identical..


Thanks fzabkar

Anyone expert in electronics pls. help.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 26th, 2020, 8:50 
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Joined: September 30th, 2005, 7:33
Posts: 743
I'm not sure about U8, but on others Seagate old models the ROM swap is a must. They don't spinup with non-original PCB. The HDD SN, PCB SN and maybe something about the preamp is written in the Flash and all they are checked during startup. The diagnostic terminal requires an overlay that is written on the plates, so it's normal not to work in your case.
On ATA terminal, however, the PCB (if it's OK) should get ready and report the model and serial number (from the Flash).


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 26th, 2020, 9:26 
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Joined: October 3rd, 2005, 0:40
Posts: 3081
Location: Hungary
He should get something like this from a bare pcb:
Code:
Interface task reset
ATReset

Ref 00 -
Ref 00 -
Ref 00 -
Ref 00 -

I would check this first.
the serial connection looks like this when looking from the connector side with ata connector on the right:
. TX . .
. RX . .

connect the adapter's RX to drive TX and adapter's TX to drive's RX.

And U8 drives are fairly sensitive to firmware version, which is not noted on the pcb.

pepe

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 26th, 2020, 16:05 
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BGman wrote:
I'm not sure about U8, but on others Seagate old models the ROM swap is a must. They don't spinup with non-original PCB. The HDD SN, PCB SN and maybe something about the preamp is written in the Flash and all they are checked during startup. The diagnostic terminal requires an overlay that is written on the plates, so it's normal not to work in your case.
On ATA terminal, however, the PCB (if it's OK) should get ready and report the model and serial number (from the Flash).

I provided links to two sets of U8 resources. The two drives have the same model number but different serial numbers, yet their ROM dumps are identical.

I examined the ROM. There are copious text strings which suggest that terminal support of some kind is incorporated in ROM.

Stuff like this and lots more ...

Code:
Offset(h) 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0A 0B 0C 0D 0E 0F

00001DA0  57 72 69 74 65 20 66 61 69 6C 65 64 00 0A 0A 52  Write failed...R
00001DB0  53 41 44 3D 25 30 34 78 20 52 53 41 56 3D 25 30  SAD=%04x RSAV=%0
00001DC0  34 78 20 48 41 50 3D 25 30 34 78 20 44 41 50 3D  4x HAP=%04x DAP=
00001DD0  25 30 34 78 0A 00 57 25 78 2C 4C 42 41 20 53 25  %04x..W%x,LBA S%
00001DE0  30 38 6C 78 2C 45 3D 25 30 38 6C 78 2C 48 25 30  08lx,E=%08lx,H%0
00001DF0  34 78 2C 20 53 65 72 72 3D 25 30 34 58 0A 00 57  4x, Serr=%04X..W
00001E00  72 69 74 65 20 61 66 74 65 72 20 73 70 61 72 65  rite after spare
00001E10  20 66 61 69 6C 65 64 00 0A 25 30 38 6C 78 20 20   failed..%08lx 
00001E20  25 30 34 78 20 25 30 34 78 20 20 25 30 34 78 20  %04x %04x  %04x
00001E30  25 30 38 6C 78 20 00 20 20 20 4C 42 41 20 20 20  %08lx .   LBA   
00001E40  53 74 61 72 74 20 53 69 7A 65 20 53 74 61 72 74  Start Size Start
00001E50  20 43 6F 75 6E 74 00 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20   Count.         
00001E60  20 20 53 65 67 6D 65 6E 74 20 20 20 20 20 44 61    Segment     Da
00001E70  74 61 0A 00 53 70 61 72 65 20 66 61 69 6C 65 64  ta..Spare failed
00001E80  00 23 53 63 74 52 64 42 79 48 6F 73 74 3D 25 30  .#SctRdByHost=%0
00001E90  38 6C 78 25 30 38 6C 78 2C 20 4D 3D 25 30 32 78  8lx%08lx, M=%02x
00001EA0  0A 00 41 54 52 73 74 0A 00 FF 46 72 65 65 20 51  ..ATRst..ÿFree Q
00001EB0  3A 0A 00 53 70 61 72 65 20 6F 66 20 25 30 38 6C  :..Spare of %08l
00001EC0  78 20 66 61 69 6C 65 64 0A 00 46 61 69 6C 75 72  x failed..Failur
00001ED0  65 20 6F 66 20 25 30 38 6C 78 20 63 61 6E 27 74  e of %08lx can't
00001EE0  20 62 65 20 66 69 78 65 64 0A 00 57 53 41 56 20   be fixed..WSAV
00001EF0  25 34 58 20 57 53 41 44 20 25 34 58 20 57 43 53  %4X WSAD %4X WCS
00001F00  41 44 20 25 34 58 20 57 53 49 5A 45 20 25 34 58  AD %4X WSIZE %4X
00001F10  20 48 50 52 45 20 25 34 58 0A 00 20 20 25 34 58   HPRE %4X..  %4X
00001F20  20 20 25 30 38 6C 58 20 25 34 58 20 25 34 58 20    %08lX %4X %4X
00001F30  25 34 58 0A 00 0A 55 6E 42 61 6C 61 6E 63 65 64  %4X...UnBalanced
00001F40  20 51 43 4F 55 4E 54 3D 25 64 2C 20 4F 72 70 68   QCOUNT=%d, Orph
00001F50  61 6E 65 64 51 3D 25 30 34 58 2C 20 57 53 41 44  anedQ=%04X, WSAD
00001F60  4A 3D 25 30 34 58 0A 00 53 65 63 74 6F 72 20 25  J=%04X..Sector %
00001F70  30 38 6C 78 20 6E 65 65 64 73 20 73 70 61 72 65  08lx needs spare
00001F80  0A 00 46 52 45 45 20 25 34 58 20 46 53 54 41 52  ..FREE %4X FSTAR
00001F90  54 20 25 34 58 20 43 48 20 25 34 58 20 43 44 20  T %4X CH %4X CD
00001FA0  25 34 58 0A 00 52 65 6F 72 64 65 72 20 51 3A 20  %4X..Reorder Q:
00001FB0  20 20 4C 42 41 20 20 4C 65 6E 20 42 6F 66 73 20    LBA  Len Bofs
00001FC0  53 74 61 74 0A 00 00 01 08 09 0A 0B 0C 20 21 22  Stat......... !"

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate ST317221A (U8) PATA with burnt Infineon chip
PostPosted: June 29th, 2020, 2:39 
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Hi again fzabkar, and sorry for the delay.
Glad to hear that you don't believe the PCB requires a ROM transfer.
I matched the model and PCB version, but may not have got the exact firmware version...
Yes, I did buy it from Payam... however I should have spoken to them to get the firmware revision first...

@BGman. Thanks for the input.

Yes, I have swapped a couple of later (than this) model Seagates, and had to swap the EEPROM.
fzabkar doesn't think it does need to be swapped, but you seem fairly sure?

The later models where I had to swap the ROMs did in fact spin up with the incorrect ROM, from memory - although admittedly it was a few years ago I last did one...

In regards to the terminal, I get nothing from terminal unfortunately.

@pepe. Thanks also for the input.

Yes, I get nothing at all from terminal.
I've hooked up the TX and RX correctly onto the 3rd bank of pins from the right, with the first bank being Master.
I've used the USB-serial adapter and cables before on several drives, and to test it, hooked it up to a SATA drive, which it correctly saw the drive reporting spin up, etc.
But on this drive, absolutely nothing.

Thanks all for the input, especially to you fzabkar.

I'm happy to hear any further suggestions, of course.

I think I'll get back in contact with the PCB supplier, Payam, and see if they have the firmware details on file for the PCB and go from there.


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