All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2014, 18:22 
Offline

Joined: November 25th, 2014, 13:25
Posts: 7
Location: India
I've had 6 HDD failures in the past year, all from various brands like Seagate, WD, Hitachi, but my old 40 GB, 20 GB HDDs still work perfectly if I power them up, even after being in service for >30,000 hrs.

Even the RMA drive WD sent me goes in just a few hours!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2014, 18:48 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 9740
Location: Australia
Your replacement drive was probably refurbished. It could have had a prior history of head/media problems.

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2014, 19:10 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 0:19
Posts: 1662
Location: Providence, RI
Personally I think it's related to data density. The new drives are trying to write data so small that it's becoming unreliable. Even the slightest bump will destroy these new drives.

I personally don't trust anything over 500Gb but that's just me.

_________________
Hard Drive & RAID Data Recovery Services
https://www.data-medics.com/raid-data-recovery/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 2nd, 2014, 19:44 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 9740
Location: Australia
ISTM that data-medics is probably right. The flying height of today's drives must be a lot lower than in those older models, and today's higher track density would be placing much greater demands on the servo system and on the motor bearing.

To get an idea of the progression in technology, it might be worth following the changes in the Hardware ECC Recovered SMART attribute in Seagate's models. AFAICT, the normalised value for this attribute has steadily declined with newer models, to the point that Seagate no longer appears to report it. ISTM that HDDs are nowadays digging data out of noise.

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 3rd, 2014, 3:54 
Offline

Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:08
Posts: 6916
Location: UK
I also suspect that modern drives are of generally poorer quality, built to a price rather than quality, to meet the "demand" for cheap drives.

Especially drives like some WD Blue drives, which feel very flimsily built, and all Seagate slim desktop drives which are cheap and nasty too :-(

_________________
PC Image Data Recovery
www.pcimage.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 3rd, 2014, 14:59 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: May 5th, 2004, 20:06
Posts: 2770
Location: England
Agree, Seagate desktop "seem" to be the latest and greatest "CRAPWARE"

_________________
All went well until I plugged the drive in.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 3rd, 2014, 17:28 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 4th, 2012, 1:35
Posts: 2964
Location: Adelaide, Australia
in contrast, a few of my collegues that run some ridiculous storage setups are raving about Seagate Flash based storage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 3rd, 2014, 17:43 
Offline

Joined: August 18th, 2010, 17:35
Posts: 3084
Location: Massachusetts, USA
HaQue wrote:
Seagate Flash based storage

Some people called it "immortal".

_________________
Hard Drive and RAID Data Recovery Specialist in Massachusetts


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 3rd, 2014, 18:25 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 9740
Location: Australia
HaQue wrote:
in contrast, a few of my collegues that run some ridiculous storage setups are raving about Seagate Flash based storage

That's SandForce IP, isn't it? (SandForce -> LSI -> Avago -> Seagate).

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 3rd, 2014, 19:39 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 4th, 2012, 1:35
Posts: 2964
Location: Adelaide, Australia
..........
Attachment:
sf.jpg
sf.jpg [ 41.55 KiB | Viewed 3665 times ]


Western Digital also acquired Virident that does enterprise flash storage, so will be interesting to see where it goes from here.

From a DR standpoint, being enterprise means that (hopefully) when the Sandforce controller goes belly-up, the DR is from backups.

If they start selling cheap consumer ones, then hopefully some bright spark can get some SF DR happening.
This is interesting, wonder how?:
"Along with the PCIe interface, enhanced, newer versions of SandForce’s excellent wear-leveling, maintenance and error correction engines are on board here as well. In fact, the controller can now handle a full die-level failure in the Flash array and still maintain data integrity. "

I personally think a lot of people are underestimating the speed in which Flash based storage become the standard choice, SSD's or PCIe.

statements like "There’s obviously a long way to go before HDDs will be completely put out to pasture" I think are flippant.

Seagate have also used other controllers, one I had not heard of very much at all, and haven't seen any cases for...Link-a-Media (LAMD), use in Seagate 600 SSD :

http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_600_ssd_review

getting back on topic, I don't think it is possible yet to judge which SSDs are more trouble-prone, or if they are indeed more prone to failure or not.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 9th, 2014, 1:54 
Offline

Banned User

Joined: October 29th, 2014, 1:24
Posts: 11
Location: India
You can't really say anything, but yes i agree today HD's are more subjected to failure. My 40gb seagate gone just like that. I couldn't even recover the data inspite of using some softwares.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: December 13th, 2014, 6:24 
Offline

Joined: November 25th, 2014, 13:25
Posts: 7
Location: India
Thank you, everyone, for the great, informative answers. I went through all of them and now it all makes sense to me. Thanks a bunch for a goldmine of information here! :) Have a great day!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 1:56 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 9740
Location: Australia
It's an old thread, but I recently saw the SMART report for Seagate's recent ST6000DM004-2EH11C 6TB drive:

http://www.techsupportforum.com/forums/ ... 1501285606

The drive is error-free and 7 hours old.

Code:
Attribute ID   C3 / 195
Attribute name   Hardware ECC Recovered (aka ECC On the Fly Count)
Current      2
Worst      2
Threshold   0
Raw Value   0006A3FE6C

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Why is that newer hard drives are so prone to failures?
PostPosted: July 31st, 2017, 14:35 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: August 9th, 2007, 8:40
Posts: 729
Location: United Kingdom
I've had an hitachi 4 tb running more or less continuously for about 4 years. Gets a lot of data written, deleted etc and is still running fine. I guess it's luck of the draw.

_________________
<itch>
скратчи
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you probably don't fully understand the situation. ... Mr Kipling


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group