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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 21st, 2018, 4:44 
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Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
Hi,
Before i am writing this i read the entire thread .We Can Clearly See that the drive Has a Marvel Controller .I am giving you a Link From Acelabs PC 3000 SSD Supported Family -> http://blog.acelaboratory.com/pc-3000-s ... dated.html .You Will See That They Have The Following Written

" PC-3000 SSD does not support SSD recovery only by controller. First of all – PC-3000 SSD support combination of Firmware (Manufacturer) and controller. It’s very important, because some manufacturers use similar controllers but different Firmware with different technological mode commands, and such drives become unsupported. For example – We completely support 88SS9174 Marwell controller, which is presented in Micron, Plextor, Sandisk and Crusial drives – they have similar FW. But at the same time, some of Lite-On drives based on the same 88SS9174 CPU are not supported, because their firmware microprogram is completely rewrite by Lite-on company. At the same time, modern families of Silicon Motion and Phison drives, have a default platform SM22xx and PS31xx which are very similar. So, if you will catch Kingston drive based on PS3109, it would be also supported, even if such Kingston model is not in support list. "

This is The Reason Some Of The Companies That Only Rely On PC 3000 SSD Cannot Work On Your Drive .So a Person Who Has Done Extensive R&D On Liteon Will Be The Only One Able To Do That .I Recommend You Show The Liteon To Ace Data Recovery in Texas Ask Luke From Recoveryforce for More Info On The Company Or Google It .Alternatively Get the drive back keep giving it power once every 15 days and keep watching the link i posted if Acelab PC 3000 SSd comes with a solution for this Then You Can Post Here And Send It To The Guy Who Has PC 3000 SSd And Can Do The Job At Good Pricing .I Also do not subscribe to the observation of DDrecovery and Few others were they say if a Guy is Quoting You USD 100 He is Not Professional ,This depends on the country that Guy is in .The Same Might Be True For American/Canadian And European Guys But Not True For Other Countries .You Can Also See That list i posted and get a new sad thats supported incase you need services again :mrgreen:

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Regards
Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 5:52 
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Location: United States
I've been going over this page with a fine tooth comb since it definitely describes the failed drive to a T.

http://www.dell.com/support/article/au/ ... em?lang=en

Installing the firmware update seems like a relatively easy thing to try, so I'm going to give it a shot. I tried to confirm if I was already using the firmware updates since the one in the article is over a year old but I can't confirm the firmware version in dell account, it only shows firmware for my current system with my service tag (which now lists my current Samsung SSD), though I can browse the previous version's components, which the liteon is listed.

It seems like there could be some risk if I don't know what I'm doing (and I don't), so I'm being very cautious. First, I need to be sure of exactly the drive name/type and to install the correct the firmware.

I just want to make sure I'm working with the correct firmware for now. I downloaded this one for part number 01D79 for SSDR,512G,S3,7MM,LITEON,CV3.

http://www.dell.com/support/home/au/en/ ... erId=FCX34

Under the component section in dell, what appears to be the dell part number, is different, so I'm a little hesitant.

Can someone confirm I did download the correct driver. I noticed there is only one 512G part description in the firmware download options, and I confrim this number in my component section, so I'm reasonably sure it is correct. I attached some images.

Sorry if this seems overly cautious in something that should be straightforward.


Attachments:
liteon component infor.png
liteon component infor.png [ 33.68 KiB | Viewed 697 times ]
dell.png
dell.png [ 56.96 KiB | Viewed 697 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 5:55 
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The update will check your drive for compatablity, or should! It looks to me like the right download.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 6:00 
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Thank you HaQue!

My plan right now is to research this a little more (particularly about the risks - dell link had a few scary scenario's). If I feel it is something safe I can do myself, I will give it a go. I don't have too much experience using secondary drives so I will read up on that as well. Before I connect the drive and install the update, I will detail exactly what I'm doing before I act to hopefully minimize any mistakes that could wipe the drive out :shock:

Thanks as well for all the other company recommendations. I will look into each of them, probably give them all a call, with a special hope for ACE labs, though I'm still keeping all/any options open. Thanks guys.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 6:17 
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all BIOS update have the CYA clauses and scary scenarios. I have done maybe 200 BIOS updates since December on HP laptops, Dell laptops, firmware updates on Surfaces, firmware updates on DVD drives, Hard Drives and SSDs and not a single fail.

most modern updates do extensive checks to be certain of compatability and also things like not updating unless AC adapter in.

if you want to save your current system, a relatively easy way is get any old disk as a temporary one... Take out your current system disk and put in the temp in, install windows. install only motherboard/chipset drivers. install your SSD, copy firmware update and run it.

you could do a boot cd, but these days windows 10 is such an easy install...

That said, if it was me I would just YOLO it and install SSD in current system and try update.

I have been doing some reversing of the firmware and related various .exe's in the update and I really wonder why they include so much in them. It is like they just bundle the whole development output and throw the lot into the update files.. anyway that's a tangent.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 7:05 
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I was planning on simply connecting the drive via sata to usb, installing the firmware update, rebooting, and hoping it goes well. You did mention to use the drive as a second drive but the little research I did on how to set this up is a little vague and assumes its a new drive that needs to be formatted.

Do you think this will work and be safe? Would using it as a second drive increase its chances of succeeding?

Also, this part, in the firmware installation seems troublesome:

On the first screen, if the target SSD is not listed, select it and then Click "Update".

The SSD isn't being read, so I imagine it won't be listed, so how would I "select" it? I can imagine this going nowhere easily. Only one way to tell though is to try, but will wait for your reply :)


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 8:40 
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I would prefer to firmware update over SATA. you would add it as a second disk, but once windows is booted, cancel anything trying to set it up or whatever.. just open PC, add power and SATA cable, then start PC. Don't do anything else bar starting firmware update. If it doesn't start, no harm, no foul.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 9:06 
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HaQue wrote:
I would prefer to firmware update over SATA. you would add it as a second disk, but once windows is booted, cancel anything trying to set it up or whatever.. just open PC, add power and SATA cable, then start PC. Don't do anything else bar starting firmware update. If it doesn't start, no harm, no foul.


Thanks for your reply, but, hmmm, some of it is unclear to me.

Quote:
I would prefer to firmware update over SATA.


Are you saying it would be better to install the firmware update while using the drive as a secondary drive and not simply attached to the computer via USB via a USB to SATA cable?

What is the difference actually? How would one hook up the liteon to use as a secondary drive on a laptop? I would imagine somehow using the same SATA cable, is this correct? So the difference might be something to do with adjusting some settings in disk management or something? Ie, with the drive simply connected via USB, if it was working, I'd be able to use it as an external drive, whereas to use as a secondary drive (presumably capable or running windows?) I would need to adjust some settings in disk management or some other settings.

Quote:
just open PC, add power and SATA cable, then start PC.


I think you are suggesting I connect the drive to use a secondary drive while it is turned off. Then, make sure the AC power is on (and not simply running on laptop battery power), attached the SATA to usb, then start the PC and try to install the firmware. Is this accurate?


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 9:46 
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I am talking about installing it in a PC, not a laptop. I have read that SSDs don't always work properly when connected with a USB-SATA cable on a laptop.

Remember I said not to do any windows config or operations. You don't want to do anything in windows bar the update. Ignore for the moment windows thinks it cant see it.

just so there is no question:

1)get desktop PC ready by whatever means, copy firmware update to it. turn off desktop PC
2) open and install SSD with SATA and power cable
3) start windows. If startup successful, start Firmware update.
4)follow instructions of update, reboot when and only when asked to.
5) if reboot and disk shows - COPY DATA OFF!
6)Happy Dance is optional, but an 80's Power Grab and a "YES!" is mandatory


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 10:09 
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Of course I forgot to say, you could create the firmware update bootdisk, insert SSD as only Hard Disk in the laptop and boot the CD.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 11:11 
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Could I use a usb thumbdrive to create the firmware update bootdisk? My laptop doesn't even have a dvd drive, oddly (or maybe not, I rarely use them).

I don't have a PC desktop. Closest thing I do have is an AIO dell computer 2305 that is about 7 years old. I am unsure if I would be able add another hard drive in there, even if it is a small one. I am willing to give it a try if it is possible though.

http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/cty/pdp/ ... e-2305-amd


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2018, 17:16 
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yes you can use a thumb drive. A great boot disk creator program is Rufus. http://rufus.akeo.ie/


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 23rd, 2018, 10:34 
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HaQue wrote:
Of course I forgot to say, you could create the firmware update bootdisk, insert SSD as only Hard Disk in the laptop and boot the CD.


Okay, I will give this a try.

1. Remove my current samsung SSD from laptop.
2. Insert the Liteon.
3. Boot from Thumbdrive and run the DOS firmware updater.

Attached are the settings I used in Rufus. There were no explicit instructions for writing this specific DOS Iso but I followed the instructions as best I could and used the only available BOS target option.


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RUFUS.png
RUFUS.png [ 131.32 KiB | Viewed 546 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 23rd, 2018, 10:39 
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Risks:

What happens if the firmware update stops midway? How damaging is this? Could a professional still salvage the data?


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 23rd, 2018, 11:42 
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once booted, the firmware update should give you a chance to either apply or quit. if it boots to the updater, I think you should be ok. If it fails, then:

-if recovery relies on controller functioning, recovery options when available may not work.. or may depending on how they solve it.

-if chip off recovery solutions become available, it should have no effect on recovery in the future.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 24th, 2018, 7:30 
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I will have to think about this. Drive savers did mention trying to use the controller, and since it didn't work, they sent it back. Maybe Acelabs might have a better method with the controller, I need to leave open.

Take a chance and maybe save a lot of money and get my data (win all) or small chance to loose the only (best) chance and loose priceless data.

I think the smartest thing to do is to confirm if I was indeed already using the same firmware version as the one listed in the article. If I was, then no point taking the risk, even if it is below one percent.

If I wasn't, I might be more willing to take the chance.

I am curious though why driver savers didn't recommend the chip off method though. I would have said no, but now I'm wondering what criteria is needed for such an option.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 24th, 2018, 8:28 
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They didn't recommend it because no-one has a solution for it more than likely. The criteria is confidence you have seen that chip combination, or pretty close and you know it was successful, or at least should have been. For example we don't even consider chip-off for SandForce, or even have confidence in recovering them. Northwind has made great strides and is offering probably either the only confident recovery, or one of very few.. after years of virtually no solutions available.

EVERY single chipset needs to be reverse engineered by us, there are no manuals and may as well say no help from vendors such as you would get in any other "repair" this also can be further extrapolated and say that different revisions of the same chip could be different schemes. different NAND chips on same chipset could be different as well. If we don't know how to ECC correct data, all files would likely be broken. If we don't know the whitening scheme, commonly realised by XORing data with a XOR key, or even worse, a dynamic XOR algorithm, we can't even get to the ECC correct stage.
Sure, once you know a controller has a certain scheme, you may be able to modify it a bit and work out the next one a bit easier, or you may not.
for the longest time we had what we call a problem chip. One that wouldn't read properly. User jeremyb figured out a vendor command that gave a better read. Another would get hot and not ID. recently figured out voltage of vccq was lower at 1.8v. there are still more problem chips.
I am not kidding when I say there are thousands of schemes. I don't know how many of each there are but think of it like:

controller(n) * NAND ID(n) * (ECC(n) or BCH(n) or other(n) * wear level mix(n) * chip operations to cut bad bits(n) * whatever funky things.

add encyption, lack of documentation, expense of tools, sheer time to research this stuff.. etc etc etc

I am making it sound all very hard and next to impossible. Sorry, but yes I may be underestimating it.

The ONLY people that think flash is easy, or not that bad are the ones that have bought tools and recovered with the tool manufacturers support for the device they have.

there are a few "rock stars" like Sasha and VNR team, Sergey ate Soft Center, Michal from Arvika, jeremy b etc.. but event those supermen are bound by mortal time and cant get to everything they would love to

personally the firmware update looks like the best right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Best Data Retrieval Companies for SSD
PostPosted: January 24th, 2018, 8:46 
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One way to see what lies within is to buy a donor drive - one exactly the same or as close as possible. we would write a known pattern over each logical sector. the pattern we know, and can match it to the dump after reading chips. and it can also help to find XOR key. Sometimes this process only serves to know we have NFI how to recover! Other times it is vital to solving it.

This is at least passive to the actual patient and wont harm it.

Also if you had one the same, you could try a firmware upgrade. This has the benefit of showing you how much control you have (aborting options) and also you may be able to start firmware upgrade, software says your current version is 1.22a and upgrade is 1.44a for example, then give you an option to quit. then you could try yours and at least know the firmware version.

If you haven't done one, then it is probably whats on the label. I cant understand why Dell are saying LiteOn released this in November 2016, but your drive date is April 2016 and may have the same firmware as the "update"... judging by the label.
EDIT - actually tacked on the download is a "v3" so maybe they didn't change version number. eg upgrade a 9110B (version 1) to a 9110B (version 3) where the versions aren't displayed? don't know.


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