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 Post subject: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 14:57 
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Joined: December 13th, 2008, 13:35
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Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Hi Forum,
I recently bought some MicroSD Multi-com adapters but don't understand how to use the flip-switches correctly to get the correct ID. Does anyone have insight into knowing which switches need to be off/on? I'm hoping to read a 2x15 and 3x7 MicroSD, but no matter what switches I have off/on, I can't get a proper ID. Very frustrating, especially considering the cost of these adapters. Any help/thoughts appreciated.
-Brian

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 15:03 
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I don't have this, but I got the impression from their videos that the on/off is to toggle using the default pinout vs. putting in a wire yourself to make it a different pin. So if you turn them all on, it's using the default pinout. If you turn them all off, you'd have to put in wires to manually configure the pinouts.

That's the impression I got anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 15:09 
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Right -- I wish it worked like that. By default, they come shipped with certain ones off/on. I've tried defaults, I've tried all on, and I've tried other random switches, nothing working. They offer no instructions for figuring this out. And, to make things more difficult, there are flip-switches on the main adapter but also the adapter used to connect to VNR/FE/PC3K.

In one of their videos, they show a drive that gets ID on CE0, but CE1-3 are "noise" (junk ID in VNR)... they flip a switch and noise goes away (only CE0 has correct ID). But, no explanation how they knew what to switch and why.

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 15:11 
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Here, watch this video starting around the 6:30 mark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPHeLh1NwIw&t=243s

It explains how the dip switches work.

I am curious to hear how these work out for you. I suspect they are intended for people who are very experienced in flash recovery and know how to do all the signal analysis themselves. I know I'm not there yet, so I leave stuff like this up to Arvika.

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 15:25 
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I don't understand that explanation though. I understand the SD card in video had a different pinout and needed another adapter... but how would one know this? Anyhow, I'm just working with the MicroSD adapters... I don't understand how to figure out which switches should be off/on. Does it change for each brand of MicroSD? Or each model? Or, for example, are all 3x7 are the same?

Not having done monolith recoveries before getting this adapter, I assume it's harder for me to understand than someone who has experience manually wiring/soldering these devices. But, it seems their market is more "me" (people looking for less complicated solution that works without soldering) and not sophisticated monolith technicians, who may just prefer to solder anyhow, but would probably understand what switches to use and why.

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 15:54 
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@bcometa, could you show us hi-res pics of the two adapters?

Does the kit come with "pin map" information?

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 16:52 
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Attachment:
File comment: VNR Adapter
F4EF5DD8-373B-47FC-99E1-3358D95C0232-2533-000002BE60551C7F.JPG
F4EF5DD8-373B-47FC-99E1-3358D95C0232-2533-000002BE60551C7F.JPG [ 1.16 MiB | Viewed 5507 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: 2x15 MicroSD Adapter
FCAD454F-DE08-4D42-B5A8-4ACF3D6E9A7F-2533-000002BE7DEB0864.JPG
FCAD454F-DE08-4D42-B5A8-4ACF3D6E9A7F-2533-000002BE7DEB0864.JPG [ 1.81 MiB | Viewed 5507 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: MicroSD Card (Samsung EVO 64GB)
81A64F5E-976F-422E-86DC-A548B3544996-2533-000002BEDD5A8396.JPG
81A64F5E-976F-422E-86DC-A548B3544996-2533-000002BEDD5A8396.JPG [ 120.29 KiB | Viewed 5507 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Instructions (Back)
B0BB1FEC-5C16-4EB7-B7F3-29701E99CA52-2533-000002BE9E808D8C.JPG
B0BB1FEC-5C16-4EB7-B7F3-29701E99CA52-2533-000002BE9E808D8C.JPG [ 1.06 MiB | Viewed 5507 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Instructions (Front)
4CEB7819-F907-4B10-A2C9-F25EEA75BC1B-2533-000002BEB8303D55.JPG
4CEB7819-F907-4B10-A2C9-F25EEA75BC1B-2533-000002BEB8303D55.JPG [ 1.24 MiB | Viewed 5507 times ]


And with these settings, I get this ID:
Attachment:
IMG_4406.JPG
IMG_4406.JPG [ 2.01 MiB | Viewed 5505 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 16:58 
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Joined: October 24th, 2009, 15:22
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For this model of MicroSD pinout is completely other, you need develop it and than set switch to off and use cable to connect NAND "pinout from reader" to correct pads on MicroSD card.
If you read this card, there is no soution for it so far. It is Samsung card with complicated ECC, XOR and assembler.

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 19:16 
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AISI, the pin count is obviously different, and the Ground and Vcc pins do not match. ISTM that the NAND may now be damaged.

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 19:27 
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@Arvika: Alrighty then! This is very helpful for this case. Thank you!

@fzabkar: It's 2x15. The count looks the same to me so please explain further. "and the Ground and Vcc pins do not match"... please explain how you can tell which pins are ground and vcc?

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 21:41 
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bcometa wrote:
@fzabkar: It's 2x15. The count looks the same to me so please explain further.

Can you not see the additional 4 pins at the bottom of the card? Or am I missing something?

bcometa wrote:
"and the Ground and Vcc pins do not match"... please explain how you can tell which pins are ground and vcc?

AISI, it is not possible to identify Vcc by visual inspection, but the Grounds at the top clearly don't match. For example, your card has a ground pin at the default D7 position of your adapter. Obviously you are not going to retrieve much data, or an ID, if you can't read all 8 bits.

If you can't see the ground(s), then use a DMM to test for continuity between each of the 34 pins and the known ground at the SD interface.


Attachments:
pinout_comparison.jpg
pinout_comparison.jpg [ 228.98 KiB | Viewed 5444 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: March 15th, 2018, 21:50 
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Ahh... I get it now, thank you very much for explaining!

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: April 15th, 2018, 5:31 
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bcometa wrote:
Ahh... I get it now, thank you very much for explaining!



Well,
I am able to understand this perfectly ,And for using the layout raster you have you need to buy this additional socket that works for your raster other then trying to use your Micro SD with totally different pinout to the adapter and frying your clients Micro SD .Here is the socket you need its crystal clear -> https://multi-com.eu/,details,id_pr,220 ... tools.html

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: April 17th, 2018, 12:51 
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Joined: December 29th, 2016, 18:13
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Thank you guys - @arvika, @fzabkar and @Amarbir[CDR-Labs] for help in such case - I was away for some day so unable to answer to help in such case

@bcometa: As previously write this is different pinout even if uses same pinout raster - can be changed fast by socket as @Amarbir writes or simply attaching cables FF as @arvika writes which you received in set to configure own pinout (make sure you set all switch to OFF in any custom pinout configuration). But as @arvika writes even if you will read it out you will be unable to assembly it back - custom made ECC from small portions of ECC (doesn't seems to surprise on Samsung) and unknown XOR will be hard case to solve even if you will get donor and write pattern....

Regarding your question: there are several solution for noises - most of those can be solved by reader configuration (different VCC/VCCq) , different timings for reading schemes (moved reading bytes) and some requires different approach from electronic point of view (filters on voltages, pull-ups to get correct logic states or connection of VSP as well as additional Monolith VCC pin if voltage due resistance from SD protocol pinout are not enough ). Adapters solve problem of soldering and also add filters, some pull-ups and possibility to add VSP/VCC on monolith but there are no universal approach what settings to set to get correct reading. Some readers require VSP on card while another reader will get poor results if you will turn on VSP, similar to all other settings as pull-ups, ON/OFF monolith voltage pin from reader - if you will add settings from software as reading speed, voltages then there are many configuration/option to check......

If you will get a problems you can always write to technika@multi-com.pl

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: April 17th, 2018, 18:26 
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a complete walkthrough - idiots guide - to some of these different/hard MicroSD's would be invaluable. in all tools there is a large gap of documentation where basic and easy ones are covered but harder ones are simply stated as being hard and you must try different things. In my experience, you need a few years of experience developing your own knowledge to even know where to start with trying these harder approaches. which is a bit crazy when the actual steps you need to try take less than 1/2hr.
Rusolut's documentation should be studied as it is the best foundation available, and often overlooked. But there is simply such a massive amount of variables in devices you have to devote some serious time to learning. Just buying tools and adapters wont get you anywhere near earning money with flash cases.


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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: April 20th, 2018, 12:41 
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Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Quote:
a complete walkthrough - idiots guide - to some of these different/hard MicroSD's would be invaluable
Agree.

But, I'm happy to say after emailing Boguslaw, that I now have my adapter working with PC3K Flash. I had it working with VNR and FE, but PC3K would never ID. Boguslaw suggested filling some points on the Ace adapter with solder so the pins made better contact (see pic). But, this still didn't work for me. Instead, the solution for me was to solder the Multi-com Adapter (all pins) directly onto the PC3K adapter. Now I get full and correct ID every time.


Attachments:
pc3000-ace-adapter.jpg
pc3000-ace-adapter.jpg [ 1013.46 KiB | Viewed 4546 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: April 20th, 2018, 15:00 
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Well,
A Better Solution is Buy a Multiboard Adapter From Acelab ,Then Buy a Adapter For That Multiboard Adapter From Multi-Com and enjoy much stable and much better then this solution thats always a pain in The #@$@$ to work with ,Sometimes this pin is not working sometimes that pin is not working .

PS : Multi-com other then main male female header contacts please install Pogo pins so that the pressure make the contact good and advise the users to fill solder on the holes :D

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 Post subject: Re: Multi-com adapters: flip-switch settings...
PostPosted: April 20th, 2018, 15:21 
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Could be better, butĀ also more expensive since I'd need to buy another adapter from Ace and from Multi-com. But, with all holes soldered, not just the spring-pins, but also the rows of pins on the left side, it seems very stable/reliable.

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