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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 17:54 
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Blizzard wrote:
I will defer to fzabkar, but my previous cases the USB 3.0 have caps, 2.0 do not. The ones I have (Phison 2251) with non-standard USB 3.0 pinout have the controller on the opposite side and TSOP48 NAND.

In both examples one pair of 3.0 pins are capacitively coupled, the other are not.

In the OP's case there are no inductors (chokes). The Patriot-256GB example has chokes at L4 and L5.

Code:
        ___
    o---UUU---------o
        ___
    o---UUU---------o


        ___    ||
    o---UUU----||---o
               ||

        ___    ||
    o---UUU----||---o
               ||

Code:
    o--------------o

    o--------------o

           ||
    o------||------o
           ||

           ||
    o------||------o
           ||

It stands to reason that the centre pins would be for USB 2.0 (a photo of the opposite side would help to confirm this). That's because USB 3.0 connectors are downward compatible with USB 2.0, and it would make sense for the PCB layout to facilitate a USB 2.0 connector (as jeremyb appears to be suggesting).

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 18:35 
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The following site clearly shows the capacitors and inductors for each of the USB 3.0 differential pairs. The centrally located USB 2.0 pair is directly connected to the flash controller.

Review, Teardown: Corsair Flash Voyager LS 32Gb USB 3.0 Flash Drive:
http://goughlui.com/2015/02/28/review-teardown-corsair-flash-voyager-ls-32gb-usb-3-0-flash-drive/

http://cdn1.goughlui.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/20150227-0759-3764.jpg
http://cdn2.goughlui.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/20150227-0800-3765.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 19:27 
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That matches my configuration for previous non-standard USB 3.0. The standard, as JeremyB mentioned, is pin 2-4-6-8 for USB 2.0 connection, but our non standard are 1-4-6-9.

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 19:50 
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Well that did gain us some improvement. We can see there is a USB connected and the volume does have a label, but no size. So this may be both a board issue, hence not being able to power via USB 3, and a NAND issue, perhaps broken solder balls as suspected. I have reflowed the NAND but this still did not improve things. I am going to remove the NAND, but I suspect its BGA-70 which is why I didn't want to remove it in the first place.

Thanks for the help, I will let you know.

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 19:59 
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It's a long shot, but not unheard of, check the top of the pins on the controller (NAND side). sometimes they crack right at the controller. Sometimes overlooked because we focus too much on the pads :)

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Last edited by Blizzard on June 5th, 2018, 20:09, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 20:07 
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Check the voltages on the bypass capacitors around the NAND.

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 21:55 
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ddrecovery wrote:
Well that did gain us some improvement. We can see there is a USB connected and the volume does have a label, but no size. So this may be both a board issue, hence not being able to power via USB 3, and a NAND issue, perhaps broken solder balls as suspected. I have reflowed the NAND but this still did not improve things. I am going to remove the NAND, but I suspect its BGA-70 which is why I didn't want to remove it in the first place.

Thanks for the help, I will let you know.


have you tried, whle it is connected, to take a full disk image with, say, DMDE? I suspect you will still get Disk I/O error. Is the label a generic type or could it be the proper label the disk had?

I know barbaric, but IMHO chip off would be the quickest solution.


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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 6th, 2018, 13:02 
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HaQue wrote:
I know barbaric, but IMHO chip off would be the quickest solution.

That is the next stage, but like I say after some research it looks like it might be a new BGA 70 chip which is probably not readable at the moment.

@fzabkar. Here are the voltages around the NAND

BC9 1.1v
BC8 1.1v
BC22 1.8v
BC4 1.1v
BC6 1.1v
BC5 3.3v

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 6th, 2018, 16:00 
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The voltages look OK.

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 6th, 2018, 22:13 
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If it is LGA70 like this:

Attachment:
LGA70.png
LGA70.png [ 111.92 KiB | Viewed 8338 times ]


you might be able to trace the pads back to the controller. PITA, I know.

The Phison controller pinout should be available available on flashboot or USBdev or whatever those sites are called..

here is an interesting page reversing iphone NVMe chip, which may be what you have there..

https://jaytaylor.com/notes/node/1479404824000.html


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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 7th, 2018, 12:43 
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Thanks everyone for sticking with me on this one. And yes HaQue mine is the LGA70 chip as you detailed above. I have not been able to find the pinout for the controller yet but will keep looking. In the meantime I have ordered a few donors.

Thanks again.

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 7th, 2018, 18:15 
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what is the full name of the phison.. eg.. PS2251-07-V, PS2251-68-5


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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 7th, 2018, 19:12 
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I will have to check on Sunday. Off to Vegas for the Ace Labs conference for as few days.

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 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 10th, 2018, 22:06 
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fzabkar wrote:
ddrecovery wrote:
4.3v, not sure why its not 5v. This is also wired to a new connector so we can rule that out.

Unless you have miswired the USB pins, then ISTM that you must have a problem with the thruhole at C8.

I suspect that the OP miswired the USB pins by mistake
IMHO the OP had used another USB connector who has a diff pinout like this

@ jeremyb here is attached the one you're referring to
the controller is PS2251

Attachment:
pic 009.jpg
pic 009.jpg [ 75.67 KiB | Viewed 7671 times ]


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