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CompactFlash, SD, MMC, USB flash storage. Anything that does not have moving parts inside.
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Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 18:47

jeremyb wrote:
ddrecovery wrote:4.3v, not sure why its not 5v.

That's not good, try taking the DC/DC converter out of the circuit. Something is pulling amperage.

Pulled the converter but it had no effect on voltages at C8 and C104

jeremyb wrote:Tim what model controller does this flash drive have?

Phison 2251 and yes it is BGA.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 18:48

FYI: We have had a couple of PNY 128GB Phison based that use a proprietary USB 3.0 connector. They crossed a couple of wires in the connector so wiring a standard pinout connector straight through won't work.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 18:56

Blizzard wrote:FYI: We have had a couple of PNY 128GB Phison based that use a proprietary USB 3.0 connector. They crossed a couple of wires in the connector so wiring a standard pinout connector straight through won't work.

Interesting. This drive had the same issues before and after the new connector was used, so I would be surprised if that was the issue. But I will check. Thanks.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 18:58

AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.
Attachments
5V_side_1.jpg
5V_side_2.jpg

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 19:35

fzabkar wrote:AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.
Attachments
usb4tim.png
usb4tim.png (173.43 KiB) Viewed 5500 times
Last edited by jeremyb on June 4th, 2018, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 19:36

This one has a different USB pinout, plus it has two switchmode regulators:

http://thessdreviewcdn2.thessdreview1.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Patriot-256GB-Flash-Drive-PCB-Front.jpg

Ouch!

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 19:39

jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

No Seriously, I do this all the time, the tx speed is slow as fuck but it legit works, this is how USB 3.0 ports are wired...

If your nervous use a resettable fuse from a SanDisk flash drive like I outline in my monolithic video between +5v and your voltage source..

fzabkar wrote:This one has a different USB pinout
No it doesn't look closer
Last edited by jeremyb on June 4th, 2018, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 19:43

I will give it a try. Thanks for the help guys.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 19:44

jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.


Image

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 19:47

fzabkar wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Lol, but you can see it yourself..
USB 2.0 connector pins are interleaved with USB 3.0. This is a fact, I know, I work with them frequently. Recover My Flash Drive :lol: :lol:

Look at his picture, +5v USB 2.0 bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller. his picture is missing the via's for D+ and D-, but your picture has them..
USB 2.0 GND is on that tiny capacitor.

Some InnoStar controllers do the same thing, they isolate USB 2.0 from USB 3.0

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 19:54

jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:This one has a different USB pinout
No it doesn't look closer

Sorry, they still look different to me. :?
Attachments
USB_pins.jpg

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 19:59

jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Lol, but you can see it yourself..
USB 2.0 connector pins are interleaved with USB 3.0. This is a fact, I know, I work with them frequently. Recover My Flash Drive :lol: :lol:

Look at his picture, +5v USB 2.0 bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller. his picture is missing the via's for D+ and D-, but your picture has them..
USB 2.0 GND is on that tiny capacitor.

Some InnoStar controllers do the same thing, they isolate USB 2.0 from USB 3.0

You are telling the OP to connect USB ground to a USB 3.0 signal pin, and USB +5V to another USB 3.0 signal pin. That's absurd.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 20:08

They are USB 2.0 signal pins, NOT USB 3.0
USB 3.0 is backward compatible w/ 2.0, look inside any USB 3.0 connector you'll see the four USB 2.0 pins, that's where they mate on the PCB..
(Pin 1 in Reference to the PCB, not the actual spec)

Pin 1, USB 3.0
Pin 2, USB 2.0 <-- Vcc
Pin 3, USB 3.0
Pin 4, USB 2.0 <-- D-
Pin 5, USB 3.0
Pin 6, USB 2.0 <-- D+
Pin 7, USB 3.0
Pin 8, USB 2.0 <-- GND
Pin 9, USB 3.0

Plain as day and night in your picture..
Attachments
USB-3.0-pinout-580x425.png
USB_pins.jpg
Last edited by jeremyb on June 4th, 2018, 20:15, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 20:15

Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?
Attachments
usb4tim_power_to_signal.png
usb4tim_power_to_signal.png (169.64 KiB) Viewed 5488 times

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 20:18

fzabkar wrote:Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?

I know this PCB design, I'm looking at one by InnoStar and Phison right now (same design as his but TSOP & no DC/DC Step Down) they are not signals, those are voltage rails. That is how older USB 3.0 drives were designed, newer SM ones aren't that way, you can tell the old design because they terminate ground with 0hm resistors on the USB shield.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 20:37

I stand corrected, on the Phison PCB the connector is different, +5v is Pin 1.. on my Silicon Motion and InnoStar drives Pin 2 is +5v

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 21:19

jeremyb wrote:Wouldn't it be funny if by removing the NAND chip the controller booted up and we found out it was simply a broken pad under the NAND chip.


Funny indeed :D

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 4th, 2018, 21:22

Minho wrote:
jeremyb wrote:Wouldn't it be funny if by removing the NAND chip the controller booted up and we found out it was simply a broken pad under the NAND chip.


Funny, that's my thinking too...
In my experience if you have a loose connection on the NAND the device will still work but you will get a no media error. Your mileage may vary :)

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 5th, 2018, 16:38

fzabkar wrote:Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?

Could I clarify with you which are the USB 2.0 signal pins. VCC and GND are easy to see, but the only differentiation in signal pin sets is the fact one set has caps. The layout on the board does not seem to conform with a 3.0 connector layout.

Re: Flash Drive Help

June 5th, 2018, 17:07

I will defer to fzabkar, but my previous cases the USB 3.0 have caps, 2.0 do not. The ones I have (Phison 2251) with non-standard USB 3.0 pinout have the controller on the opposite side and TSOP48 NAND.
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