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Flash Drive Help
http://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36891
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Author:  ddrecovery [ June 4th, 2018, 18:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

jeremyb wrote:
ddrecovery wrote:
4.3v, not sure why its not 5v.

That's not good, try taking the DC/DC converter out of the circuit. Something is pulling amperage.

Pulled the converter but it had no effect on voltages at C8 and C104

jeremyb wrote:
Tim what model controller does this flash drive have?

Phison 2251 and yes it is BGA.

Author:  Blizzard [ June 4th, 2018, 18:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

FYI: We have had a couple of PNY 128GB Phison based that use a proprietary USB 3.0 connector. They crossed a couple of wires in the connector so wiring a standard pinout connector straight through won't work.

Author:  ddrecovery [ June 4th, 2018, 18:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

Blizzard wrote:
FYI: We have had a couple of PNY 128GB Phison based that use a proprietary USB 3.0 connector. They crossed a couple of wires in the connector so wiring a standard pinout connector straight through won't work.

Interesting. This drive had the same issues before and after the new connector was used, so I would be surprised if that was the issue. But I will check. Thanks.

Author:  fzabkar [ June 4th, 2018, 18:58 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

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5V_side_1.jpg
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5V_side_2.jpg
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Author:  jeremyb [ June 4th, 2018, 19:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

Attachments:
usb4tim.png
usb4tim.png [ 173.43 KiB | Viewed 5501 times ]

Author:  fzabkar [ June 4th, 2018, 19:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

This one has a different USB pinout, plus it has two switchmode regulators:

http://thessdreviewcdn2.thessdreview1.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Patriot-256GB-Flash-Drive-PCB-Front.jpg

Ouch!

Author:  jeremyb [ June 4th, 2018, 19:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

No Seriously, I do this all the time, the tx speed is slow as fuck but it legit works, this is how USB 3.0 ports are wired...

If your nervous use a resettable fuse from a SanDisk flash drive like I outline in my monolithic video between +5v and your voltage source..

fzabkar wrote:
This one has a different USB pinout
No it doesn't look closer

Author:  ddrecovery [ June 4th, 2018, 19:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

I will give it a try. Thanks for the help guys.

Author:  fzabkar [ June 4th, 2018, 19:44 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.


Image

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Author:  jeremyb [ June 4th, 2018, 19:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

fzabkar wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Lol, but you can see it yourself..
USB 2.0 connector pins are interleaved with USB 3.0. This is a fact, I know, I work with them frequently. Recover My Flash Drive :lol: :lol:

Look at his picture, +5v USB 2.0 bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller. his picture is missing the via's for D+ and D-, but your picture has them..
USB 2.0 GND is on that tiny capacitor.

Some InnoStar controllers do the same thing, they isolate USB 2.0 from USB 3.0

Author:  fzabkar [ June 4th, 2018, 19:54 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
This one has a different USB pinout
No it doesn't look closer

Sorry, they still look different to me. :?

Attachments:
USB_pins.jpg
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Author:  fzabkar [ June 4th, 2018, 19:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Lol, but you can see it yourself..
USB 2.0 connector pins are interleaved with USB 3.0. This is a fact, I know, I work with them frequently. Recover My Flash Drive :lol: :lol:

Look at his picture, +5v USB 2.0 bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller. his picture is missing the via's for D+ and D-, but your picture has them..
USB 2.0 GND is on that tiny capacitor.

Some InnoStar controllers do the same thing, they isolate USB 2.0 from USB 3.0

You are telling the OP to connect USB ground to a USB 3.0 signal pin, and USB +5V to another USB 3.0 signal pin. That's absurd.

Author:  jeremyb [ June 4th, 2018, 20:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

They are USB 2.0 signal pins, NOT USB 3.0
USB 3.0 is backward compatible w/ 2.0, look inside any USB 3.0 connector you'll see the four USB 2.0 pins, that's where they mate on the PCB..
(Pin 1 in Reference to the PCB, not the actual spec)

Pin 1, USB 3.0
Pin 2, USB 2.0 <-- Vcc
Pin 3, USB 3.0
Pin 4, USB 2.0 <-- D-
Pin 5, USB 3.0
Pin 6, USB 2.0 <-- D+
Pin 7, USB 3.0
Pin 8, USB 2.0 <-- GND
Pin 9, USB 3.0

Plain as day and night in your picture..

Attachments:
USB-3.0-pinout-580x425.png
USB-3.0-pinout-580x425.png [ 111.31 KiB | Viewed 5489 times ]
USB_pins.jpg
USB_pins.jpg [ 138.44 KiB | Viewed 5489 times ]

Author:  fzabkar [ June 4th, 2018, 20:15 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?

Attachments:
usb4tim_power_to_signal.png
usb4tim_power_to_signal.png [ 169.64 KiB | Viewed 5489 times ]

Author:  jeremyb [ June 4th, 2018, 20:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

fzabkar wrote:
Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?

I know this PCB design, I'm looking at one by InnoStar and Phison right now (same design as his but TSOP & no DC/DC Step Down) they are not signals, those are voltage rails. That is how older USB 3.0 drives were designed, newer SM ones aren't that way, you can tell the old design because they terminate ground with 0hm resistors on the USB shield.

Author:  jeremyb [ June 4th, 2018, 20:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

I stand corrected, on the Phison PCB the connector is different, +5v is Pin 1.. on my Silicon Motion and InnoStar drives Pin 2 is +5v

Author:  Minho [ June 4th, 2018, 21:19 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

jeremyb wrote:
Wouldn't it be funny if by removing the NAND chip the controller booted up and we found out it was simply a broken pad under the NAND chip.


Funny indeed :D

Author:  Blizzard [ June 4th, 2018, 21:22 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

Minho wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
Wouldn't it be funny if by removing the NAND chip the controller booted up and we found out it was simply a broken pad under the NAND chip.


Funny, that's my thinking too...
In my experience if you have a loose connection on the NAND the device will still work but you will get a no media error. Your mileage may vary :)

Author:  ddrecovery [ June 5th, 2018, 16:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

fzabkar wrote:
Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?

Could I clarify with you which are the USB 2.0 signal pins. VCC and GND are easy to see, but the only differentiation in signal pin sets is the fact one set has caps. The layout on the board does not seem to conform with a 3.0 connector layout.

Author:  Blizzard [ June 5th, 2018, 17:07 ]
Post subject:  Re: Flash Drive Help

I will defer to fzabkar, but my previous cases the USB 3.0 have caps, 2.0 do not. The ones I have (Phison 2251) with non-standard USB 3.0 pinout have the controller on the opposite side and TSOP48 NAND.

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