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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2017, 16:14 
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It does appear that the drive is an ATAPI version ("IOMEGA ZIP 250 ATAPI"):
ftp://ftp.wayne.edu/ldp/en/ZIP-Drive/ZIP-Drive.txt

I wonder if the "CPR Tools IDE to USB Adapter" could be a solution:
http://www.cprtools.com/products/accessories/
http://www.hddoracle.com/download/file.php?id=1030 (photo)

Quote:
Easily converts any USB Thumb Drive or other external storage to standard ATA for quick and safe imaging, cloning or testing.

Designed, tested and built specifically to extend PSIClone functionality to USB attached storage.

Works with USB attached hard drives (external storage) as well as USB thumb drives.

SalvationData have a similar adapter.

I have collected several technical docs here:
viewtopic.php?t=28469&p=197935

The adapter appears to be based on Epson's S1R72U16 IC which bridges an IDE host to a USB mass storage peripheral. This IDE has both an ATA mode and ATAPI mode.

It supports the ATA Packet command (A0h).


Attachments:
Supported_ATAPI_commands_HDD_flash.gif
Supported_ATAPI_commands_HDD_flash.gif [ 41.39 KiB | Viewed 842 times ]
Supported_ATA_commands.gif
Supported_ATA_commands.gif [ 66.86 KiB | Viewed 842 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2017, 19:25 
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Here is the SalvationData adapter:

http://www.salvationdata.com/drs-data-r ... ystem.html
Image
The markings on the bridge IC appear to be "EPSON R72U1614E2" (S1R72U16F14E200).

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2017, 19:50 
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Thanks, I have contacted both companies for more information.

I wonder if devices utilizing this chipset might work:

TUSB6250 USB to ATA/ATAPI Bridge Controller (PDF): http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slls535e/slls535e.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2017, 20:29 
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chrisfoster wrote:
I wonder if devices utilizing this chipset might work:

TUSB6250 USB to ATA/ATAPI Bridge Controller (PDF): http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/slls535e/slls535e.pdf

No, such bridges are used in adapters which connect a USB host to an IDE ATA/ATAPI device. You need to go the other way round, ie you need to connect an IDE/ATAPI host to a USB peripheral. Such adapters are very rare.

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2017, 20:38 
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BTW, the S5U1R72U16F bridge has 3 configuration pins. You may need to ground these on any adapter that you buy.


Attachments:
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S1R72U16F_port_00_01_02.gif [ 16.86 KiB | Viewed 822 times ]
S1R72U16F_pinout.gif
S1R72U16F_pinout.gif [ 49.03 KiB | Viewed 822 times ]
S1R72U16F_mode_settings.gif
S1R72U16F_mode_settings.gif [ 20.58 KiB | Viewed 822 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2017, 20:51 
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fzabkar wrote:

No, such bridges are used in adapters which connect a USB host to an IDE ATA/ATAPI device. You need to go the other way round, ie you need to connect an IDE/ATAPI host to a USB peripheral. Such adapters are very rare.


Not even this reference board? It also provides a TUSB6250 hardware reference design for connection to an ATA/ATAPI device such as a hard disk drive (HDD), ZIP drive, magneto-optical drive (MO), ORB, CD-ROM, CD-R/W, DVD-ROM, or DVD-RAM.


http://eicom.ru/pdf/datasheet/Texas_Ins ... 0DEMO.html


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2017, 21:22 
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chrisfoster wrote:
fzabkar wrote:

No, such bridges are used in adapters which connect a USB host to an IDE ATA/ATAPI device. You need to go the other way round, ie you need to connect an IDE/ATAPI host to a USB peripheral. Such adapters are very rare.


Not even this reference board? It also provides a TUSB6250 hardware reference design for connection to an ATA/ATAPI device such as a hard disk drive (HDD), ZIP drive, magneto-optical drive (MO), ORB, CD-ROM, CD-R/W, DVD-ROM, or DVD-RAM.


http://eicom.ru/pdf/datasheet/Texas_Ins ... 0DEMO.html

Quote:
2.2 Hardware Installation

The following parts/devices are needed to set up the demonstration board:

- Hi-speed USB cable

- ATA/ATAPI device (HDD, CDROM, DVD, etc.)

- ATA/66 ribbon cable, 40-pin, 80-conductor cable

- Power source for ATA/ATAPI device

- PC or Mac with USB host controller or PC/Mac with USB onboard host
controller card. A high-speed host controller is required for high-speed
operation.

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 2nd, 2017, 22:03 
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I did a search for ATA-IDE-V7.3, because that is on the card reader that is currently supported (with OS update) by the AKAI MPC2000XL (Blue). The original drive out of this unit is the one which worked in the SP808EX.

http://www.attro.com/html/peripherals-6_ata.htm

http://www.allstorage.com.tw/prod-cardmaster.htm

The manual for the C.M.-IDE-421.HS states : Comply with IDE Specification Version 3

http://www.prestico.com/manual/IDE-421.pdf

So I wonder what ID Spec version are we looking for?

Good info here maybe:

https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/CFModGuide


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 0:48 
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All those adapters seem to be passive devices (apart from a 3.3V LDO regulator). This means that they essentially just convert the connector pinouts from CF-50 to IDE-40. The command set is still restricted to ATA. Perhaps Akai's MPC2000XL supports both ATA and ATAPI commands, whereas your Roland might only support ATAPI?

The Rockbox page talks about replacing PATA HDDs with CF cards. Essentially this amounts to replacing an existing mechanical ATA device with a solid-state ATA device. Once again I don't think this is of any help to you, assuming that the Roland does indeed insist on an ATAPI storage device.

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 6:59 
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https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sd-a ... sp-808ex#/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271723278972

both links from

https://jimatwood.wordpress.com/2012/01 ... land-gear/


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 9:52 
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The CPR Tools USB to IDE Adapter was designed for our products, such as PSIClone, as a USB to IDE pass-through adapter. The adapter is only supported for our products such as PSIClone, Hammer, and Sledge Hammer.

As for your question about the Zip drive, the adapter will not emulate the drive. If the adapter is connected for use with our devices (PSIClone, Hammer, and Sledge Hammer) and the Zip drive can be seen as a mass storage device (like a hard drive or USB flash drive), then the PSIClone with the adapter will have a good possibility of being able to communicate with the Zip drive


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 9:58 
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HaQue wrote:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/sd-atapi-conversion-adapter-for-roland-sp-808ex#/
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271723278972


"Addonics AEIUDMD is the same as Addonics AEIUDMD9 but without a memory card adapter"

I think those cards might extinct, but gonna have a dig anyway.

That kickstarter sure was a miserable flop..probably not much promotion around the music gear blogs.


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 15:22 
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chrisfoster wrote:
The CPR Tools USB to IDE Adapter was designed for our products, such as PSIClone, as a USB to IDE pass-through adapter. The adapter is only supported for our products such as PSIClone, Hammer, and Sledge Hammer.

As for your question about the Zip drive, the adapter will not emulate the drive. If the adapter is connected for use with our devices (PSIClone, Hammer, and Sledge Hammer) and the Zip drive can be seen as a mass storage device (like a hard drive or USB flash drive), then the PSIClone with the adapter will have a good possibility of being able to communicate with the Zip drive

I don't think the support person understands your requirements, or perhaps you didn't state them correctly. S/he seems to think that your Zip drive is a USB device, and that you want to communicate with it via an IDE(host)-to-USB(device) adapter so that it can then be seen by their PATA cloning tools. I suspect that their adapter will work just fine. Can you ask them for the part number of the bridge IC?

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 17:59 
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@chrisfoster, although the links to the two ATAPI products in the following article are dead, I'm wondering if it might help to see a photo of the chip(s). Do you know of anyone who might be able to provide such info?

http://midicase.com/card_reader_guide.htm

Quote:
IISDMC for the XL. This is an internal ATAPI product found here, here, and elsewhere.
http://www.amtron.com/reader/iisdmc.htm
http://www.psism.com/iisdmc.htm

Addonics IDE Ultra DigiDrive, internal, MPC2000XL only.
http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_ ... idrive.asp

The ATAPI models, like the IISDMC and Addonics ...

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 20:32 
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fzabkar wrote:
although the links to the two ATAPI products in the following article are dead, I'm wondering if it might help to see a photo of the chip(s). Do you know of anyone who might be able to provide such info?


Unfortunately I have no access to that equipment.

I do have a support request open with addonics to provide documentation for the current ADIDECF model (http://www.addonics.com/datasheets/files/ADIDECF.pdf) and the discontinued AEIUDMD /AEIUDMD9 (known to work with SP-808EX) so a comparison can be made.


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 21:14 
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From the SP-808EX service manual (https://manuals.center/database/manuals/DVD88/SP808.pdf) the chip that services the Zip drive is SLA919FF0J

This datasheet is from Epson http://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet- ... A919F.html

Any connection with the "EPSON R72U1614E2" (S1R72U16F14E200) from the SalvationData board.

Grasping at straws probably

Edit: It seems the ADIDECF (current model) does not work after all.


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 21:44 
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Another nugget from a 2010 post:

Quote:
I found that for the IDE/CF convertor i needed to have the FlashRom mode set to ReWrite Mode (jumper pair 8 connected)


Folks testing the ADIDECF may have missed this


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 22:46 
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Marvell 88SA8052 PATA to SATA Bridge?

https://origin-www.marvell.com/docs/sto ... 015-09.pdf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/IDE-Host-To-Dua ... 2339255499

Asking for info on this one also:

http://www.hsc-us.com/Embedded/CFadapters/ATG_index.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 3rd, 2017, 23:10 
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anyone got any firmware I could disassemble? Might help to have a look at what it is doing.

I just bought this mainboard to have a look: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322465463551

Also, are there difference, drivewise, of the SP-808 and SP-808EX? Also which one is th OP asking about for this project?

If we solve this I may buy another one to play around with. I sold Mine years ago as I didn't really play with effects but just really played guitar


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 4th, 2017, 1:47 
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HaQue wrote:
anyone got any firmware I could disassemble? Might help to have a look at what it is doing.
Also, are there difference, drivewise, of the SP-808 and SP-808EX? Also which one is th OP asking about for this project?


ATAPI100ZIP for the SP-808

Both models are the same mainboard, the 808 can be upgraded to the 808EX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2SiAEbiBsE

Apparently the ZIP drive acts like RAM..constant access, could be part of the quirkiness


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