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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 4th, 2017, 18:46 
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Probably of no use now, but this was the reply from HSC with a good spec sheet:

Our ATAPI products were discontinued long time ago.
We may still have maintenance inventory but quantity should be very limited.

This ATAPI card reader is designed for industrial applications.
It should be able to replace ATAPI storage device like ZIP but we have not tested compatibility with musical instruments before

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2aVIe ... 3VkhB/view


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 4th, 2017, 21:04 
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Is US$200 too much?

Converter USB to IDE Male for Salvationdata:
http://www.drivestar.biz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66_104_133&products_id=4915
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 4th, 2017, 21:12 
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This list: http://www.hjreggel.net/cardspeed/info-controller.html shows:

VT6205A - USB 2.0 to 9-in-1 Flash Card Reader
CF, MD, SM, MS, MS Pro (4-bit), SD, MMC, xD, NAND-Flash, ATA/ATAPI

Vectro VT6205 : https://www.viatech.com/en/silicon/lega ... sb/vt6205/

Not sure if this is the 'A' version: https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2275/20 ... eb33_b.jpg

Roadmap presentation: http://nethd.zhongso.com/ttdata/netdisk ... 103052.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 4th, 2017, 21:34 
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia
fzabkar wrote:
Is US$200 too much?

It doesn't have that adapter on it, but:

It's a USB 2.0 to IDE 3.0 adapter, sorry we have no technical documentation for this component.

We are data recovery tool manufacture and integrated digital forensics solution provider. Welcome to click this link to have a brief understanding of our company: www.salvationdata.com

This USB to IDE adapter is our supplied accessory for old generation products which is purchased from one of our cooperative factories, I am so sorry we could not provide the technical documentation you need

You could buy from us directly. Unit price for this adapter is 50us dollars, shipping fee by Fedex to Australia is 28 us dollar.
Total is 78 US dollars.

Paypal and T/T both are ok in our side.
-------------------------------------------------

If someone wants to take a punt, I have a SP808EX in Adelaide CBD for testing ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 0:44 
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The VIA chip is unsuitable -- it connects a USB host to a memory card device.

The SalvationData adapter looks like a good punt, though. Just be prepared to modify 1 or more of the 3 configuration pins (you may need to ground the ATAPI/ATA mode select pin).

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 1:09 
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fzabkar wrote:
The VIA chip is unsuitable -- it connects a USB host to a memory card device.

ISTM that I may have misunderstood you. Are you suggesting that the VIA based adapter could be used to connect memory cards to the SalvationData adapter? If so, then why not simply connect a USB flash drive instead?

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 4:27 
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Just to clarify things, I am proposing the following setup.

    SP-808/808EX ATAPI/IDE host <--> SalvationData IDE_device-to-USB_host adapter <--> USB flash drive

If I now understand correctly, you were proposing this setup (which will probably work):

    SP-808/808EX ATAPI/IDE host <--> SD adapter <--> VIA USB-memory-card adapter <--> memory card

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 14:15 
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I just bought one of these..

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/391788567610

If I havent got an 808 before it arives I will give it to @chrisfoster to try out.

To be honest I havent really dug into this thread, just kind of took an interest and randomly picking at different posts to see what I can find. Most of the time I am hitting the same info as already here. The bit that I am really interested in is how they are using the zip disk as RAM, though I am guessing that this is laymans terminology, but if it is a genuine mode of operation, and not a hack, I think discovering whats going on may help.

The original direction of the thread would be interesting too, exactly what is it sending the zip disk, and listening for. It just seems an extremely odd choice, but for the time, a fairly cheap way of getting so much room.

The 8 midi files for the OS.. I am guessing it is just one per bank of the chip and code just gets written direct as is.
I cant access the yahoo group where the A6 OS is, anyone have a copy?


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 15:40 
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That LogiLink adapter is based on a JMicron JM20330 SATA-PATA bridge.

http://www.go-gddq.com/downlocal/J/JM20330.pdf

The 3 MODE pins select between device or host mode, and 100/133/150 MB/s.

ISTM that all this card does is to make an ATAPI PATA host (the SP-808) look like an ATAPI SATA host. This leaves you with the problem of finding an ATAPI SATA storage solution.

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 16:28 
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Do you ever sleep Franc? :)

oh, well for that price, may as well have one. Thats a very slim datasheet! There is a slim possibility it may provide whatever the 808 is looking for if used sandwiched with another adapter/device.

I will probably buy one of the SD adapters, along with a large container of disinfectant. I know how dirty you feel after buying from them and getting sh*t on minutes after. Flash Doctor 'happy' customer..

to the original idea, how doable is sniffing the bus?

regards to to Roland Edirol A-6 .. why is there no mention of the product anywhere on any support page, including legacy support, or product pages. it is like in they deny it exists. Went looking for the A6 OS update and could only find a reference or 2 and outdated links.


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 5th, 2017, 17:11 
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Here is a better document:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/temp/J ... v.-2.3.pdf

Sniffing the bus might be doable using Spildit's method with Seagate drives, but it is a little complicated. I suspect that the SP-808 is using the Identify Packet Device command to detect the drive, and the Packet command to send ATAPI (SCSI) command packets to it.

Edit: My dog is an early riser.

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 6th, 2017, 9:02 
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fzabkar wrote:

If I now understand correctly, you were proposing this setup (which will probably work):

    SP-808/808EX ATAPI/IDE host <--> SD adapter <--> VIA USB-memory-card adapter <--> memory card


Actually I'm just trying to find contenders to be vetted...so far that Salvationdata unit looks like the best bet.


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 6th, 2017, 17:00 
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If the SalvationData adapter works, then so should the CPR Tools adapter, even if CPR's support staff don't know what it is.

When you receive the SalvationData adapter, could you please upload hires photos or CCD scans of both sides of the PCB? There appear to be two resistors (R61/R62 ?) adjacent to pins 25, 26 and 27. I believe these will configure the device for IDE/ATAPI/single-device mode. Hopefully they are already set in the ATAPI position, otherwise you will need to make some minor changes.

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 6th, 2017, 19:11 
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[quote="fzabkar"]If the SalvationData adapter works, then so should the CPR Tools adapter, even if CPR's support staff don't know what it is.

I've now contacted both companies for dimensions and hi res shots of both sides.


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 6th, 2017, 19:58 
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SD.. Mother taught me if I didn't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all. so.. " ".

did you find a product page for the adapter? I could only find it as part of another kit.


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 7th, 2017, 2:22 
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia
SalvationData Front and Back pics:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2aVIe ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2aVIe ... sp=sharing

Dimensions: 6.6cm x 4.4cm


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 7th, 2017, 4:28 
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Wow, that's good support!

As I suspected, the card is preset for ATA mode.

Resistors R60, R61 and R62 configure the PORT00, PORT01 and PORT02 mode pins, respectively.

R61 and R62 are both pulled to ground (low), but R60 is pulled up to the supply (high).

To reconfigure the PCB for ATAPI mode, remove resistor R60 and connect a leaded resistor between TP26 and a nearby ground point. This resistor should have the same resistance as either of R61 or R62 (I can't make out their markings).

BTW, I found this useful tip:

http://lifehacker.com/share-direct-links-to-files-in-google-drive-and-skip-th-1493813665

Quote:
As tech tips blog Digital Inspiration points out, most of the links Google gives you to share will open a file in the web viewer. While this is nice, you may not want to make the recipient jump through hoops just to download those TPS reports. If you want to share a direct link, simply change the format of the link from this ...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/FILE_ID/edit?usp=sharing

... to this:

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=FILE_ID

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B2aVIexl9TLZeFNtM19fbklPUjMxV1ltNUl6N2JHT1cxemhr
https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B2aVIexl9TLZNEFjNWN5Wlh1cHBUeEF2dGZuZ2t4RTkzRGhB


Attachments:
mode_resistors_R61_R62.jpg
mode_resistors_R61_R62.jpg [ 149.77 KiB | Viewed 321579 times ]
mode_resistor_R60.jpg
mode_resistor_R60.jpg [ 243.93 KiB | Viewed 321579 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 7th, 2017, 4:53 
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Location: Adelaide, South Australia
[quote="fzabkar"]Wow, that's good support!

Nice info all round...thanks!

I've forwarded that info and asked if units can be ordered from their supplier pre-configured to ATAPI.

Not holding my breath but you never know.


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 7th, 2017, 16:29 
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Joined: August 17th, 2015, 21:40
Posts: 39
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
CPRTools card:

Defaults to ATA mode via Epson R72U1614E2-G10100136

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=down ... FHWVh0b0Y4

https://drive.google.com/uc?export=down ... EzekE2NDhF

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Sniffing control flow between legacy devices over PATA/A
PostPosted: August 7th, 2017, 16:56 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 15440
Location: Australia
It appears that the CPR Tools adapter would require a similar PORT00 hack.

Code:
ATA mode                                  ATAPI mode

.-------.         .---.                  .-------.         .---.
|       |   R61   |   |                  |       |   R61   |   |
|       |   ___   |  ===                 |       |   ___   |  ===
| PORT01|--|___|--'  GND         VCC     | PORT01|--|___|--'  GND
|       |                         +      |       |
|       | TP26    ___ R60    ___  |      |       |  TP26   ___ R60x
| PORT00|---o----|___|-------UUU--'      | PORT00|---o----|___|--------.
|       |                  inductor      |       |                     |
|       |   ___                          |       |   ___               |
| PORT02|--|___|--.                      | PORT02|--|___|--.           |
|       |         |                      |       |         |           |
|       |   R62   |                      |       |   R62   |           |
'-------'        ===                     '-------'        ===         ===
                 GND                                      GND         GND

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