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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: April 7th, 2010, 12:14 
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Joined: September 27th, 2005, 8:21
Posts: 765
Hello everyone,

Wow, that was a thorough comparison! Very nice work Luke!

First of all, I'd like to emphasize (and CK has already mentioned this): Atola Imager (as well as Insight) is a very young product and it will take us some time to add all those sweet features everyone's talking about.

Quote:
when updating the firmware, requires the user to be able to push a button on the unit and start the process at the Windows Console (for me, I was across the room and need the assistance of another person)

This was done to achieve two goals:
- So that the customer knows what unit he is upgrading (some users have several units in the network)
- To prevent someone from silently uploading malicious firmware into the unit

We plan to change this so that you don't have to push power off button and launch the upgrade at the same time. You'll be able to first launch the update, then go to the unit and press the button.


Quote:
Also, if you pause the imaging process, it automatically turns off the destination drive - I find this very annoying.


This will be fixed in the upcoming release. On a side note, if you find something annoying in the software or hardware - let us know (or just PM me). Every single bugreport or annoyance is worked on; nothing gets disregarded.


Set Read Timeout

Timeouts can be specified in this table (for each pass):

Image



Hardware reset

Hardware reset is sent to the drive automatically when needed


Power Oscilloscope
Image Specific Files
Set Max LBA on Destination
Head and Media Test
Reset HPA

These functions available in full version of Atola Insight.


Wipe destination sector by sector

At this time, this function is available in full version of Atola Insight. However, starting from the next release we will also include it in the Imager.


Customizable algorithms (Set read response based on individual sector read errors)

This feature will be added.


Turn Off "Read Bad Sector" auto reallocation

When imaging drives that support this feature, and if autoreallocation is currently enabled, Imager will ask you before starting the imaging whether you want it to be disabled or not.


Disable read look ahead

This feature will be added.


Read Ignoring ECC

This feature will be added.


Image by Head
We've been working on by-head imaging for a while, and we will need some more time to finish it.


Force read in PIO Mode

This feature will be added.


Enable/Disable overwrite unread sectors

This feature will be added.


Set sector range to mirror

It is possible to set random ranges. Here's how:

Image

First, select "I want to image: Custom...", then click "Create or load media map"

Image

Then click "Create new map"

Image

Click "Include sectors..."

Image

Select "Custom range"

Image

Enter first range. You can add as many ranges as you want.

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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: April 7th, 2010, 12:17 
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Joined: September 27th, 2005, 8:21
Posts: 765
Luke,

I posted the wrong draft by mistake. I am very sorry for the confusion. I have removed it within a minute after posting, but it seems that you've been fast enough to open it. :mrgreen:

Please see my other post.

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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: April 7th, 2010, 12:51 
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Joined: September 27th, 2005, 8:21
Posts: 765
Quote:
The problem with this is that it is very complicated.


It really looks complicated at first but we had to do it like that to allow for maximum flexibility (add ranges including or excluding specific partitions, for example). When you only want to define some ranges, it is actually very easy (you won't have to go through all those menus to add next range).

Quote:
It would be nice to tell the imager to start at sector 'x' each time I restart the imaging process...with sector 'x' defaulting to the last sector read. This way, if I want to jump into reverse and go back through the section I just read, I can do so quickly.


Current version does exactly that. It starts from where you stopped it, and you can jump into reverse at any time.

If you want to do that in sections, then you would need to create several imaging sessions with different ranges (which is easy to do in the software).


Quote:
Also, if I just want to skip ahead and restart the process at a different spot on the drive, I can do so without a lot of hassle.


There's no convenient way to do that (besides creating new sessions which - I agree - isn't very convenient in this case). However, this can be added in the future - I see no problem with this.

On a side note, we have no intention to directly compete with DeepSpar or follow specific features seen in Deepspar or Data Extractor. We position our products as solutions that allow minimizing time spent on recovery and costs (basically, it boils down to "push one button and get good results in most cases" + "make it possible for an average computer tech to achieve the best possible success rate"). As the result, features allowing to push the recovery process to the limit and add those last several percent to your success rate are added last.

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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: April 7th, 2010, 15:56 
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Joined: August 12th, 2008, 13:11
Posts: 3235
Location: USA
Dmitry,

Thanks for posting the followup here, it is very interesting to read about the development of the Insight/Imager and encouraging to see that people's suggestions are taken so seriously.

maysoft wrote:
basically, it boils down to "push one button and get good results in most cases" + "make it possible for an average computer tech to achieve the best possible success rate"
So ultimately do you plan on marketing mainly to "average" computer shops/techs?

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You don't have to backup all of your files, just the ones you want to keep.


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: April 7th, 2010, 16:36 
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Joined: March 13th, 2005, 12:33
Posts: 872
Location: Dublin
Quote:
So ultimately do you plan on marketing mainly to "average" computer shops/techs?


I guess this makes good business sense. There's a lot more of these customers than professional DR outfits.

It's good to hear that more developments are planned for Atola, I look forward to trying the new functionality as it appears. Please expedite the power off functionality - this is one of the most annoying issues with the imager.

For the moment, DeepSpars will be my weapon of choice for badly damaged drives - but the Atola is nice to have when there's a backlog of drives on the deepspars.

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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: April 7th, 2010, 17:04 
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Joined: September 27th, 2005, 8:21
Posts: 765
drc wrote:
So ultimately do you plan on marketing mainly to "average" computer shops/techs?


That's the marketing strategy right now. At some point (when we add enough "pro" features :)), we will revise our marketing strategy.

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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2010, 1:12 
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Joined: May 22nd, 2010, 23:10
Posts: 1
Location: Canada
Hello Amarbir,

I am very new to this forum. I have been reading some threads about Deepspar Disk Imager, Atola Imager and Data Compass etc. Same as you, I am also looking into buying Deepspar Disk Imager, but for now I am looking to get a cheaper solution to start, and learn about Data Recovery.

what softwares do you use. I read that you mentioned something about HD Dupe or something like that. Can you please send me the link to this software, I would like to try it out. And also if you use something else that is relatively cheap, please let me know if you don't mind. I also found this free software called GNU ddrescue, what do you think about it. Have you heard about it? I am from Canada.

Please email me at videotalk19@hotmail.com just in case if I don't get your message.

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2010, 11:43 
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Joined: February 15th, 2006, 3:38
Posts: 1079
Location: canada
no such thing as going cheap doing data recovery

you need to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

on hardware


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: May 25th, 2010, 15:48 
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Joined: April 5th, 2010, 23:02
Posts: 89
Location: Winder, GA
videotalk19 wrote:
Hello Amarbir,

I am very new to this forum. I have been reading some threads about Deepspar Disk Imager, Atola Imager and Data Compass etc. Same as you, I am also looking into buying Deepspar Disk Imager, but for now I am looking to get a cheaper solution to start, and learn about Data Recovery.

what softwares do you use. I read that you mentioned something about HD Dupe or something like that. Can you please send me the link to this software, I would like to try it out. And also if you use something else that is relatively cheap, please let me know if you don't mind. I also found this free software called GNU ddrescue, what do you think about it. Have you heard about it? I am from Canada.

Please email me at videotalk19@hotmail.com just in case if I don't get your message.

thanks


Try google for the link. Better yet, download Hirens boot CD. It contains a lot of free utilities for simple logical data recovery. I don't mean to be rude here, but it would be really helpful to simply search for this stuff on your own (through the forums here or on google). You'll learn things a lot better than having things spoon fed to you and really, it doesn't take but a few minutes to find answers to these very questions you are asking. If you are not willing to do this then DR could quite possible be the last field on Earth you should try and get into.


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 5th, 2010, 5:49 
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Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 12:14
Posts: 446
Location: Austria / Europe
Atola just released its new update 1.4.7:

- Full support for FAT32 and FAT16 in File Recovery and when imaging only occupied sectors
. (besides allready existing support for NTFS)
- Image writer allows writing images back to hard drives
- Force PIO mode feature

I think its worth it to include that in the comparison chart.

+++


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 8th, 2010, 17:39 
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Joined: July 16th, 2008, 17:52
Posts: 489
Location: Long Beach, California
Also, Ignore ECC was added in 1.4.6



Regards,


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 9th, 2010, 15:39 
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Joined: February 9th, 2009, 16:13
Posts: 2520
Location: Ontario, Canada
I've made a few changes, but I'd prefer only to update my review after I've physically tested it myself. I've had a SD Data Compass here for a few months, but it sucks so bad, I can't even determine where to start documenting it. I requested that they send me a DataCopyKing so that I could provide an independent review, but they don't seem to be interested. I can tell you now that their review of the DDI is not even remotely accurate and I question whether they ever even saw one working, let alone tested one.

Out of curiosity, if you have multiple Atola Imagers, can you run multiple instances of the program from a single system without any problems?

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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 9th, 2010, 17:28 
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Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 12:14
Posts: 446
Location: Austria / Europe
DCK is a stand alone fast imager for good hdds - both source and target as IDE or SATA
copying either partially as range from xxxx - to yyyy, or complete.

Nothing less, nothing more.

The lcd display is good - the usage is simple - the english text is sometimes wrapped from
one to the next line in the middle of a word - i.e. 1st line at the end you see the O next
line first letter is the K

Kind of lacking sensitivity for the language - infact most probably the first tool of SD
where definitely no manual is necessary, allthough - you wont believe it - it does exist
and its done ok.

The outside design is fancy funcy on the front - in an uggly plastic case. The case opens
its cover up to about 95 degree - no way to put source and target into the open case.
I modified that myself....

I tried the tool several times and found sometimes the issue, that it detects "write errors
on target" - allthough the target is definitely ok. On some drives it gave me defects at the
end of a copying process.

The errors where reproducable on DCK, but not with any other imaging tool. It might be,
that the automatic transfer speed is set too high and causing both problems.

Setting up the unit was simple - downloaded the fw update through the internet and had
no problem with that - but - just for test - tried the same with the included CD - and got
a virus warning immediately.

The unit has to be unlocked for the first time usage - and can be password protected for
the further use.

As I said at the beginning - a tool for good hdd only.

Thats it
+++


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 10th, 2010, 8:23 
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Joined: February 9th, 2009, 16:13
Posts: 2520
Location: Ontario, Canada
falther wrote:
DCK is a stand alone fast imager for good hdds - both source and target as IDE or SATA
copying either partially as range from xxxx - to yyyy, or complete.

Nothing less, nothing more.

...

As I said at the beginning - a tool for good hdd only.

Thats it
+++

That being said, the StarTech Hard Drive Duplicator makes more sense, costing only $270. I have this StartTech unit and it works fine for healthy SATA drives...and for $150.

I know that these units don't image at lightening speed. However, for the cost of the units vs the cost of a product like DCK, Atola and DeepSpar, you could have a lot of these units running. Of course, it all depends on the health of the source drive. Now that I think about it, I'll get the other StarTech unit and do a little review on them with this question in mind, "Can they be seriously used in a data recovery environment?"

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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 10th, 2010, 11:49 
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Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 12:14
Posts: 446
Location: Austria / Europe
Sorry, I did not mention a very important additional function of the DCK :oops:

- it will (fast) erase hdd too


my fault
+++


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 10th, 2010, 12:02 
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Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 12:14
Posts: 446
Location: Austria / Europe
News from Atola: Atola Forensic Imager is launched

It is based on the Atola Imager software with additional features
- here is the summary of all features:

* Disk to File (DD Image/MD5) Imaging
* Data Only Imaging (NTFS, FAT32)
* Disk to Disk Imaging
* Reverse Imaging
* Create Full/Partial HDD Image
* Create a Sector-by-Sector Image
* Multi-Pass Data Recovery Imaging
* Built-in Write Protection
* Automatic Case Management System (auto assign case # for each job)
* Pause/Resume Session anytime!
* Email Notification for Imaging Status
* Network Capability: Access/Control Remotely from your network

Further details can be found either at http://www.hdd.ji2.com or at http://www.atola-europe.com

+++


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 10th, 2010, 14:58 
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Joined: July 16th, 2008, 17:52
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Location: Long Beach, California
The key difference with the forensic version of the imager at this time is that it adds the ATA password removal functionality from the full insight suite.


Regards,


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 11th, 2010, 10:55 
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Joined: February 9th, 2009, 16:13
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Location: Ontario, Canada
I now have the StarTech Imager. Wow! Fast wipe is fast. It only took 1 second to wipe the drive. :s At least it wouldn't let me wipe a drive connected to the source.

So far, I'm pretty impressed, with the exception of the misleading wording about the wipe. The display reported the speed, the amount of data left to copy, the percentage completed and the time left to complete. I'll run through a few scenarios and will be sure to report back.

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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 23rd, 2010, 15:35 
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Joined: September 11th, 2007, 13:35
Posts: 249
Hello There,

A question and maybe wish for the Imaging section of the Full Atola product:

1. When I am already in an imaging session I sometimes hit rough areas of a disk that maybe I want to do again, or skip over. The problem is (as far as I understand) to select those custom imaging areas, Dmitry shows above, I must start a NEW imaging session. The problem all the data (as in what was and was not imaged) of my previous imaging passes are lost, and I must maybe loose 2 days worth of imaging and start again (with the risk that involves).

So: whilst within an Imaging session, I would like to see the bad disk areas, and maybe "fast forward" over them or "re-do" them. Is this possible?

2. If I am imaging to a very bad disk i may decide to do a headswap after the first image. How can i prevent Atola from zero filling those sectors that were imaged well in the pre-headswap imaging but may not be readable in the post headswap imaging. I really want my image to end up with the sum of the pre and post headswap sessions, with no zero fill. (of course in this scenario I must zero fill the destination before any imaging sessions are started)

3. The other question, a newbie one at that, is regarding the ignore ECC imaging: it works perfectly according and I see what areas are imaged without ECC, but what happens in my later file recovery attempts from those imaged sectors? Data is there but I will recover a higher percentage of corrupt files?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Deepspar V Atola Imager - actual comparison
PostPosted: June 24th, 2010, 14:11 
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Joined: July 16th, 2008, 17:52
Posts: 489
Location: Long Beach, California
1) These features are really nice, and I would also like to see them added, the best thing to do is to email Atola directly, and voice your thoughts. Dmitry is always listening!


2) You an do this by simply adding more passes to your image after the HS, lets say you do a 5 pass image before HS, you can added more passes so that you can go over the bad areas again after HS. Just change settings and add them before you click resume.


3) Ignore ECC is hit and miss, no matter which product you use. The ECC is non matching for a reason, whether or not the corruption in the sector is highly severe, or very minor, is tricky to say.

I would say with Ignore ECC, you probably won't end up worse off then if you just didn't image those sectors at all. At least by ignoring ECC, you got SOMETHING out of those sectors that might help some files work. Otherwise that sector is just going to be 00's


Regards,


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