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 Post subject: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 7th, 2022, 11:08 
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Joined: June 7th, 2022, 10:57
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Location: Germany
Hello, there, I have an external Toshiba HDD of a friend of mine which is not working. I think there is a head-crash because of the noises. I know, that you have to do this in a clean room, but that is to expensive. I will open the HDD (I did that one times ago, because the the read/write heads was fixed - after that it works). Perhaps we`ve got luck and that is the problem, too. 'If not, I would attempt to put the magnetic disks to another identical HDD.

ONCE AGAIN, I know, that you have to do this usually in a celan room, but that is to expensive and my friend asked me x-times to try it - please don`t warn me because of the risk, i know it.

I think, the problem has nothing to do with the electronics - or what do you think?

There is an attatchment of the defective disk. Please help me. Thank you!!


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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 8th, 2022, 1:51 
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Joined: October 3rd, 2005, 0:40
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Location: Hungary
There's enough FIY videos on u2b, should be sufficient for this case as well...
you know the risks, go for it.

ps: you don't only need a 'cleanroom', there's a lot more to it.
pps: i didn't want to be rude, just straight.
ppps: why was this posted in the Forensics section?

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 8th, 2022, 2:42 
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An MQ04 with damaged heads is a nightmare for most of the professionals, not because of the procedure to swap the heads, but because of what comes as a package with these drives. They're a nightmare.
Having said that, if the drive is clicking etc, the chances of recovering it yourself is 0%.

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 8th, 2022, 4:14 
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Marco wrote:
Hello, there, I have an external Toshiba HDD of a friend of mine which is not working. I think there is a head-crash because of the noises. I know, that you have to do this in a clean room, but that is to expensive. I will open the HDD (I did that one times ago, because the the read/write heads was fixed - after that it works). Perhaps we`ve got luck and that is the problem, too. 'If not, I would attempt to put the magnetic disks to another identical HDD.

ONCE AGAIN, I know, that you have to do this usually in a celan room, but that is to expensive and my friend asked me x-times to try it - please don`t warn me because of the risk, i know it.

I think, the problem has nothing to do with the electronics - or what do you think?

There is an attatchment of the defective disk. Please help me. Thank you!!


Hello,
If you are in germany i can suggest a great reference ,"Tell him Amarbir From India Referred "

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 8th, 2022, 5:56 
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Joined: June 7th, 2022, 10:57
Posts: 19
Location: Germany
Hello everything and thank you!

Quote:
There's enough FIY videos on u2b, should be sufficient for this case as well...


I actually don`t need any videos, I need a matching replacement hard drive.

Quote:
you don't only need a 'cleanroom', there's a lot more to it.


I KNOW! I don`t need ratings with reference to the success - I KNOW IT! I will try it for my buddy's sake - that`s it.

Quote:
Having said that, if the drive is clicking etc, the chances of recovering it yourself is 0%.


You can simply try to exchange the magnetic disks. If it will not working - bad luck. My friend know that, i talked hours with him about that.


Please link a matching hard drive to to that. The original hdd has only an USB interface, there is no S-ATA.


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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 8th, 2022, 6:38 
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Marco wrote:
Quote:
Having said that, if the drive is clicking etc, the chances of recovering it yourself is 0%.


You can simply try to exchange the magnetic disks.


Errr, no. It DOESN'T work like that.
Personally I won't enable you to permanantly destroy any chances of recovery from this drive (since that's what you're doing). I've seen plenty of cases where the owner of the drive suddenly remembered that the data is too important to miss, and then blames were thrown blindly.

So, if you just need a donor drive to use to destroy your friend's drive, ebay has plenty of them.
Model MQ0xUxxx = USB
Model MQ0xAxxx = SATA.

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 8th, 2022, 12:12 
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Joined: June 7th, 2022, 10:57
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Location: Germany
Hello,

Quote:
Errr, no. It DOESN'T work like that.


Why is that? The problem are the read/write heads. Can you explain why do you think that that doesn`t work?

Quote:
I've seen plenty of cases where the owner of the drive suddenly remembered that the data is too important to miss, and then blames were thrown blindly.


'It is very nice that you think about that - but it is NOT neccessary! I knwo this guy 20 years, I talked with him about that. The data are important, but not so improtant that he will pay thousands of Euro.

Quote:
So, if you just need a donor drive to use to destroy your friend's drive, ebay has plenty of them.


I can`t destroy it, becuase it is destroyed and the laboratory is tooooooo expensive.

Please answer my question about the exchange of the disks.

Edit: Is it necessary to use a USB disk again or is it possible to use a substitute S-ATA Disk?


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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 8th, 2022, 12:39 
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Joined: June 23rd, 2008, 11:26
Posts: 503
Location: Austin, TX
Why swap the platters?

You have to take the heads out to get the platters out safely and if it is a head issue, just swap in new heads. Swapping the platters will just introduce potential new issues.
If the drive spins to speed there is zero reason to swap the platters.

Just because you got lucky with a previous drive does not make it the same for every drive after it. I would really ask your friend how important the data really is since you have a high chance of permanently making it unrecoverable if things go wrong. It is not your risk, it is your friends risk since it is his data.

the 04 series are a pain in the ass

Good luck


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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 8th, 2022, 12:45 
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Location: The_UK
Marco wrote:
The problem are the read/write heads. Can you explain why do you think that that doesn`t work?
A visit to northwind's website http://www.northwind.gr should answer that for you.
If the data is at all important take it to a lab - https://www.gefund-it-datenrettung.de/ for example as trying to do it yourself will not end well.

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 8th, 2022, 17:46 
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Joined: August 18th, 2010, 17:35
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
Cleanroom wrote:
Why swap the platters?

You have to take the heads out to get the platters out safely and if it is a head issue, just swap in new heads. Swapping the platters will just introduce potential new issues.
If the drive spins to speed there is zero reason to swap the platters.

+1

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 9th, 2022, 4:14 
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Joined: January 28th, 2009, 10:54
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It's like you have a car with faulty spark plugs and instead of replacing the spark plugs you decide to take down and replace the entire motor. This causes un-necessary fuss and HUGE chances of something going wrong.
Then, after you replace the motor, guess what, you'll need new spark plugs anyway.

Plus, in your case any of this can happen (or all of them together):
Loss of alignment, slip of platters, bumping, mixing, scratching, contamination, incorrect placing, wobbling, I can go on.
In any of the above = game over.

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 9th, 2022, 16:15 
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Joined: June 7th, 2022, 10:57
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Location: Germany
Okay, this is Francesco and I'm the owner of the hard disk. PLEASE, I WILL NEVER EVER SEND THE HDD TO A COMPANY LIKE NORTHWIND OR SIMILAR LIKE THAT. The Data are important, there are Pictures of a Holiday, drin fotball Stadium etc - BUT they are both so important to pay thousands of Euro - is THAT clear? Sorry, but PLEASE Help my friend Marco and gove him the information s He need, PLEASE. PLEASE Tell me and Marco, why we can't Change the Disks and what WE have to so an to Note, PLEASE.


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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 9th, 2022, 16:30 
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If the drive has suffered a head crash, then your replacement head(s) will be damaged/destroyed when they fly over the damaged area(s) of the platter(s).

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 9th, 2022, 17:33 
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Marco wrote:
Okay, this is Francesco and I'm the owner of the hard disk. PLEASE, I WILL NEVER EVER SEND THE HDD TO A COMPANY LIKE NORTHWIND OR SIMILAR LIKE THAT. The Data are important, there are Pictures of a Holiday, drin fotball Stadium etc - BUT they are both so important to pay thousands of Euro - is THAT clear? Sorry, but PLEASE Help my friend Marco and gove him the information s He need, PLEASE. PLEASE Tell me and Marco, why we can't Change the Disks and what WE have to so an to Note, PLEASE.


you can do whatever you want, it is really up to you and Marco. But any answer would bear 4 more questions and it would never end. Recovering data from such devices is a profession and not a game for the kindergarten. People doing these jobs have learnt for 1-2 decades, and we are surprised by new things day by day, it is simply pointless to start spoonfeeding at this level.
Why not paint a Leonardo or write music like Beethoven? It's simple like that.
Or ask a builder to help you building a house in his spare time.
Looks like you want EVERYTHING and for FREE, think about that for a minute.

pepe

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 10th, 2022, 3:08 
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Location: Greece
Marco wrote:
Okay, this is Francesco and I'm the owner of the hard disk. PLEASE, I WILL NEVER EVER SEND THE HDD TO A COMPANY LIKE NORTHWIND OR SIMILAR LIKE THAT. The Data are important, there are Pictures of a Holiday, drin fotball Stadium etc - BUT they are both so important to pay thousands of Euro - is THAT clear? Sorry, but PLEASE Help my friend Marco and gove him the information s He need, PLEASE. PLEASE Tell me and Marco, why we can't Change the Disks and what WE have to so an to Note, PLEASE.


Nobody ever told you to send your drive to me or any other pro. We are telling you why what you want to do will NOT work, but you and your friend are always free to do whatever you like. It's you data = your choice.
Frankly, I wouldn't want to work with your drive, it's got a bad karma already :mrgreen:

On a serious note, your questions were already answered, so I don't know why you insist asking the same thing again and again.

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 10th, 2022, 9:53 
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fzabkar wrote:
If the drive has suffered a head crash, then your replacement head(s) will be damaged/destroyed when they fly over the damaged area(s) of the platter(s).


That is absolutely logical! I haven't opened the hdd yet. The head crash was a supposition. If there is a head crashm, it is impossible to do anything for myself - I know that!



Quote:
Nobody ever told you to send your drive to me or any other pro


Right! But it is senseless to repeat and repeat agian to give this hdd to a professional - do you unterstand that?

Quote:
We are telling you why what you want to do will NOT work


And exactly that get on my nerves, sorry! You heard Francesco, he will never ever give it to a professional - where is the problem?! Either you help or you don't - it`s okay, but please stop teach me respectively us.

Quote:
to do whatever you like


I don`t agree you, you keep trying to talk us out of it.

Quote:
On a serious note, your questions were already answered


Exactly that is not the case!!

You said, that chnage the disks will not work -WHY IS THAT?! I'f the r/W heads are defective and the diks is NOT, why should ist work???? Can you answer that at last? THANK YOU!


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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 10th, 2022, 18:35 
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Joined: June 7th, 2022, 10:57
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Location: Germany
Hello, okay, obviously there is no head crash present, because if there were a head crash you coud see the typical "circles" of the disk. The r/w head drives to tge middle and back - again and again.

Theoretical it could work, if I would change the diks to another working drive.

Can someone answer this question:

Do the disks in which they are removed have to be put back in exactly the same position? So what would happen if I spun a disc? A certain point is now at 1 o'clock instead of 12 o'clock.

Is it possible to create a dd with linux and recover the data with scalpel, foremost etc.??


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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 10th, 2022, 18:54 
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Many drives won't work if you disturb the alignment of the platters:

https://www.recoveryforce.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=565

In any case, since you will be disturbing the headstack to remove the platters, it would make more sense to exchange the headstack and leave the platters alone (as already explained).

Hddsurgery.com has many videos which demonstrate how to swap heads using their tools:

https://hddsurgery.com/head-replacement-tools

ER-tools has just recently made available all their 3D models for their head swap tools:

https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=26580&p=298006#p298006

Whatever you decide, I would suggest that you practice removing and reinstalling the headstack in a working donor, and then confirm that the drive stills works afterwards. Do this several times to make sure that your technique is sound.

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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 10th, 2022, 19:41 
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Joined: June 7th, 2022, 10:57
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Hi, Thank you VERY MUCH!!!! I will read it attentive and give a feedback :-)


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 Post subject: Re: HDD doesn`t work
PostPosted: June 11th, 2022, 13:40 
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Joined: June 7th, 2022, 10:57
Posts: 19
Location: Germany
Hello,

Quote:
In any case, since you will be disturbing the headstack to remove the platters, it would make more sense to exchange the headstack and leave the platters alone (as already explained).


O.K., than I will change the read/wirte heads, maybe that is easier.

Quote:
Hddsurgery.com has many videos which demonstrate how to swap heads using their tools:

https://hddsurgery.com/head-replacement-tools


Thank you very much!! But can i alos buy a second hand hdd and chnage the parts from it??

Quote:
ER-tools has just recently made available all their 3D models for their head swap tools:

https://forum.hddguru.com/viewtopic.php ... 06#p298006



Thank you very, very much!!!!

Quote:
Whatever you decide, I would suggest that you practice removing and reinstalling the headstack in a working donor, and then confirm that the drive stills works afterwards. Do this several times to make sure that your technique is sound.


Yes, of course, I will test it with another hdd, that`s clear!

Can you poste a link to buy a matching hdd? second hand.


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