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 Post subject: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 6th, 2014, 10:47 
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Joined: October 31st, 2013, 9:34
Posts: 31
Location: Belgrade, Serbia
Dear colleagues and friends,

Recently we received a large number of e-mails from people all around the world related to tools that people ordered and paid from certain webshops in China.

Image

Questions have similar content and there are all related to quality of delivered tools as well as on large number of uncommited deliveries (money sent, tool never arrived).

We emphasize that HDDSurgery doesn’t have and never had a distributor in China. The tools that we sell are made and quality inspected only in Serbia from were they are sent all around the world to our customers and official resellers.

E-mails with pictures of our tools that are spreading across the internet are sent by a group of scammers who are trying to use our name and reputation that we builded over the years.

We warm once again all colleagues not to fall on this type of propaganda.

Many thanks for attention,

HDDSurgery support team


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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 6th, 2014, 11:00 
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Joined: February 9th, 2009, 16:13
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Location: Ontario, Canada
I'm having a hard time feeling bad for people losing money on buying from a very obvious unreliable source.

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 6th, 2014, 15:07 
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Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:08
Posts: 7166
Location: UK
If something sounds too good to be true (e.g. Same tools for half or less price) the is usually is :-(

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 7th, 2014, 4:39 
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Joined: December 4th, 2012, 1:35
Posts: 3152
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Do you have a list of authorised re-sellers you could put on your page? In cases where I buy tools that are prone to getting poor quality rip-offs made, I look at the original vendor and choose one that they have stated is an authorised re-seller.

Be proud your stuff is worthy of being ripped-off though!


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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 7th, 2014, 18:11 
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 0:19
Posts: 1856
Location: Providence, RI
Not to play devil's advocate here, but I'd love to hear the opinion of a third party who doesn't work for either company. The pictures and videos they have are all of tools with their "hddor" branding on them, not hddsurgery tools.

They very well could be crap, but I'm not necessarily going to take their competition's word for it. If anyone has actually bought from them, please chime in on this one. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 7th, 2014, 18:14 
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 0:19
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Location: Providence, RI
Even if they aren't as good, some competition in this arena could be good. It might push hddsurgery to lower their insane prices to where guys would actually buy them instead of engineering their own solutions (like most of us have).

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 9th, 2014, 4:31 
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Joined: January 28th, 2009, 10:54
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Location: Greece
data-medics wrote:
Even if they aren't as good, some competition in this arena could be good. It might push hddsurgery to lower their insane prices to where guys would actually buy them instead of engineering their own solutions (like most of us have).


I kindly disagree here.
HDD Surgery tools are the most useful tools in my lab, I use them everyday, and I can't remember how it was when I worked without them.
As for their price, yes, they are not cheap, but they're professional tools and I believe they make up their money quite soon.

I will buy their next tools, with eyes closed and no questions asked.

Just my $.02

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 9th, 2014, 4:43 
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Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 647
Location: Belgrade
Hi,
Well You could say that our prices are insane but You have not even seen our tools in action, not to mention that you have never used them. You can ask around here on forum and make some statistics what people say about recovery (btw I am sure your clients also tell you that your prices are insane...they tell it to us also ).
One thing that you do not understand is how difficult is just to make a name of the tool, which will immediately tell you on which HDD models and families it could be used. Not to mention whole development process: from problem and idea, throgh blue prints, drawings, 3D models towards full technical and production documentation. Not to forget systematization of hard drive models, mechanics, capacities and making more efficient tools so they can be used on wide range of models. Then manufacturing plan and making programs for EDM Machines, CNC Mills, CNC Swiss type lathes etc. Problems of micro-bearings implementation... Then making animations and video guides, creating detailed PDF manuals, making appropriate packaging, paying Google to advertise and pay employees etc. If we put all that on one side - 6 years of development, continuous improvement and production - I think we have built something good.
Then someone showed up with our pictures (containing HDDSurgery watermark), and our fingers on same pictures, with our model labeling and our supported model lists... Plus, this guy actually bought tools from us... It was not nice... so we hired lawyers from China, they sent them email with official warning... and then he changed HddSurgery to HDDOR...or something like that. But what was very strange - even with Photoshop Pick tool every line and every color is same like on our tools... And yes we were scared that our tools can be copied, but we are aware that they could be copied only by someone who have 500.000 USD equipment and serious engineering department.
So we decided to buy something via our friends and see what is it. And we bought some ramp set and some single head change tool, and we got OUR own tools back but not full sets...We got half of WD ramp set... without original box etc... Comparing to stocks he had and what we sold to him... we saw that his stock matches to our invoices on his name, only difference is that we sold him 2 pieces in ramp set. Anyhow, it continued to be very strange to us that someone buys tools on higher price and sells them on lower... But everything became much clearer when we saw emails that are circling.
He asked for another 50 sets...He obviously plans to build some "reputation" over our tools. First ones who pay big money to him will be left without anything... Or when he start receiving a lot of orders he will send either nothing or some nonfunctional tools, completely different from tools on the pictures. If you want to gamble go ahead, we just warned our collages and friends. Hope we will make a friend out of you also, and then you would believe me and you would not doubt for a second.
All of this is written just to be clear what was the purpose of our info email,

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 9th, 2014, 5:22 
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Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 647
Location: Belgrade
helpdisc wrote:
Hi,

He asked for another 50 sets...He obviously plans to build some "reputation" over our tools. First ones who pay big money to him will be left without anything... Or when he start receiving a lot of orders he will send either nothing or some nonfunctional tools, completely different from tools on the pictures. If you want to gamble go ahead, we just warned our collages and friends. Hope we will make a friend out of you also, and then you would believe me and you would not doubt for a second.
All of this is written just to be clear what was the purpose of our info email,



i made eror in typing, he looks to sell 50 sets to "resellers" in his emails.... and when someone sends money....

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 9th, 2014, 5:43 
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Joined: December 4th, 2012, 1:35
Posts: 3152
Location: Adelaide, Australia
As for insane prices..
What was described regarding the development is often overlooked, or not even considered.

Take a simple ham sandwich.

for a shop to sell you a ham sandwich, they have to somehow pay for:

Business name
signage for their business
Rent
staff
cleaning products to cleanup after
research on the right bread and ham
research if it is worth offering ham sandwiches for sale
a fridge for the ham
buy the ham
buy the bread
buy the butter
enter in tax info on profits/accounting
buy knives
buy packaging
learn how to make a proper ham sanger fit for sale
.
.
could probably add 20 more...

They don't charge $20,000 because they figure out after they sell a lot of them, and other similar products, and buy ingredients in bulk, they can split the cost between all the customers.

customers win because all that work is done for them

Now.. lets see you produce 1 single head tool, exact same, from scratch for that price in any reasonable time.

I bought a PCB design package this week and have been working on 1 PCB to use as a NAND test pad. 19mm x 12mm with 48 contacts and 48 test pads. sound simple? well I have spent many, many hours on it, not having done much PCB since the MS-DOS Protel days.

IMHO I don't think the volume of sales HDDSurgery would be getting is high enough to drop the prices much. You are NOT simply paying for that individual piece of matter.


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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 9th, 2014, 10:13 
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 0:19
Posts: 1856
Location: Providence, RI
Listen, I own two companies so I don't need a lesson in how much things cost. I'm very well aware. But, I've also learned that there are varying ways to make your business profitable. For example:

high price - low volume
average price -average volume (my preferred scheme)
low price - high volume

That's why there's DR companies charging everywhere from $300 to $2000 for the same services. All I'm saying is that hddsurgery is on the "high price - low volume" strategy right now and that some competition could be good.

I know you think the market is too small, but in actuality there are a lot of data recovery companies out there, and a whole lot more DIY guys, who would buy this type of tool if the prices were more competitive. But it's hard to justify giving away the entire profit margin of a single job when you homebrew solution (though not quite as easy to perform) works just fine. And I know a lot of pros who haven't bought your tools.

I bet if the price were more around the $200-300 range, you'd easily triple the number of sales. Or sell an entire set for around $1200 and you'd sell ten times as many tools.

But that's just my $0.02.

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 9th, 2014, 10:40 
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Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 647
Location: Belgrade
Well You say you do not need lessons and you still give me one? :)

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 9th, 2014, 10:50 
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Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 647
Location: Belgrade
data-medics wrote:
Listen, I own two companies so I don't need a lesson in how much things cost. I'm very well aware. But, I've also learned that there are varying ways to make your business profitable. For example:

high price - low volume
average price -average volume (my preferred scheme)
low price - high volume

That's why there's DR companies charging everywhere from $300 to $2000 for the same services.

Well there is no same service but that is another story...
On the pictures is not copy of our tools it IS our tools...so I really do not see how that can help.
My 1$

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 9th, 2014, 12:58 
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 0:19
Posts: 1856
Location: Providence, RI
If they actually are selling your tools, then I agree that they're scammers.

I'd just like to hear the opinion of an uninvolved third party, rather than take your word for it. No offense but you've got too much interest vested in this to be objective about it. Understandably you'd be upset if they ripped off your design (which I hope you patented), but that doesn't necessarily make them a scam either.

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 9th, 2014, 13:02 
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Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
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Location: Belgrade
Well if you have a picture of tool that has written Hddsurgery on it and you advertise as something else...ok maybe I am not objective.

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 10th, 2014, 13:52 
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 0:19
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Location: Providence, RI
In fairness, after spending about an hour on Skype chatting with these clowns, I'm pretty sure they are scammers. I know I'm not sending a penny of my money to them.

They keep talking in circles, I was trying to convince them to send a sample of their tools to anyone known on the forums for them to review, maybe Luke, but they just keep circling back to becoming a "reseller" and buying 50 pieces from them.

I'm gonna have to side with you on this one for now.

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 10th, 2014, 15:28 
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Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
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Location: Belgrade
You want to try one? I mean real one?

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 11th, 2014, 3:37 
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Joined: August 9th, 2007, 8:40
Posts: 769
Location: United Kingdom
I've been using Helpdisk head combs and bearing transplant tools for years. I have almost the complete set of head combs (except maxtor) they are absolutely the best quality engineered tools for the job. I am perfectly happy with Helpdisk tools and support.

If anyone does not believe me, I can provide photographs.

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 Post subject: Re: SCAM - head replacement tools
PostPosted: June 12th, 2014, 11:58 
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Joined: September 5th, 2010, 12:29
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HddSurgery tools are worth every penny. One job and you've almost paid for the tool, so I don't think they are expensive at all. They are precision tools that do exactly what they are meant to do, and taking into account all the R&D, I think the price is very fair.

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