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 Post subject: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 20th, 2018, 18:06 
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Joined: March 15th, 2010, 8:42
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Location: Belgium
Hi Forum,

I have a Sandisk Ultra 32G CF Card. It uses 2 SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND Chips.
The controllers seems to be defective, but I have good hope the NAND chips are not impacted.

The VNR Reader does not have the SDTNQGBMB-016G in its database.
If I use the settings from SDTNQCCMA-064G, it can read the ID, and I can see data in the dump viewer.
It does not read any ONFI Parameters however. (And since the device has a different capacity, I don't know what parameters (page/block/plane) will differ, but it can not be the same)

I can not find any datasheets of these chips. Is there anyone who has the correct parameters of this IC?

Next part;
The controller used in the CF card is a 20-82-00314-4 The VNR has a sandisk CF with the 20-82-00309-3 controller in its database.
Would those controllers be the same to decode? If not, does anyone have the correct decoding method for this card?

My first instinct would be to just try to find the same model of CF-card and transfer the NAND's, but I bought the VNR to not depend on that strategy :-)

Thank you !


Attachments:
File comment: Config
Config_readsID.PNG
Config_readsID.PNG [ 21.4 KiB | Viewed 3758 times ]
File comment: Read IDs
ReadID.PNG
ReadID.PNG [ 4.38 KiB | Viewed 3758 times ]
File comment: Sandisk Ultra 32GB Internals
CF_intern.2.jpg
CF_intern.2.jpg [ 105.54 KiB | Viewed 3758 times ]
File comment: Sandisk Ultra 32 GB
CF_ext.3.jpg
CF_ext.3.jpg [ 8.38 KiB | Viewed 3758 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 21st, 2018, 12:42 
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Joined: January 19th, 2017, 10:54
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Location: Poland
Hello!
Send message to our support team, one of our engineers will help you identify the memory configuration.
Drop description about case here: suppport@rusolut.com

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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 22nd, 2018, 0:51 
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Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
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Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
Hello,
I a Not Sure Of This ,But Some of The Controllers i have come across in sandisk CF Cards Are SM Based .

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Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 22nd, 2018, 3:03 
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Joined: October 24th, 2009, 15:22
Posts: 579
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There is config for this ID:


Attachments:
config2.jpg
config2.jpg [ 76.94 KiB | Viewed 3669 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 22nd, 2018, 9:14 
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Joined: January 19th, 2017, 10:54
Posts: 15
Location: Poland
Hello once again!
We have this NAND chip in database. Configurations in VNR are stored by NAND ID number, instead of model.
The reason is simple: one NAND chip can be found in many packages(BGA, TSOP or monolithic etc.). Storing configs by models will results to many duplication.

Below is link to article from our website, where we describe reading process:
https://rusolut.com/direct-access-to-na ... xtraction/

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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 22nd, 2018, 20:06 
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Joined: March 15th, 2010, 8:42
Posts: 9
Location: Belgium
Thank you for the tip's and pointers.
I was indeed confused that the Chip ID was foud 3 times in the database. Therefore, I tought that the phisical form and type number of the chip was the most important, not the ID.
There are 3 entries in total. 2 entries in the database have the same parameters.

The "MonoSD" one does not seem to work, the reader goes in error state after reading the first few pages but the "monolith" one with different page size does read the first NAND chip.
Now trying to read the second chip. I had some difficulties reading the second chip on the first try, but lowering the voltage seems to pursuade the chip to read.

Kind regards,
Hans


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 23rd, 2018, 7:20 
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Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
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Well,
I am at learning stage Of VNR Myself And More Confused Then You Are .I have a SM2236 With 4 BGA-152 Chips and i Need To Try Reading Then With VNR .But I Am Presented With Options That are going above my head .I am gonna make a post here soon on that

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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 28th, 2018, 11:22 
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Joined: November 9th, 2006, 15:15
Posts: 2981
the SM2236 are often joined by small join size (8 bytes or so), and some cases have join by byte.

Did you read chips for this case yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 28th, 2018, 13:38 
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Joined: March 28th, 2018, 13:24
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2236G will be joined by Qword (64 Bits/8bytes ) The interleave is usually 0246 / 1357 dump order if you read the chips using the order numbers on the PCB *KE 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 29th, 2018, 13:29 
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Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
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Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
Well,
I wonder Why We Say U51 Is The First Chip To Be Read ,Although U50 is The Smallest From U50 ,U51 ,U52 And U53 :mrgreen:

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Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 29th, 2018, 18:41 
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Joined: December 4th, 2012, 1:35
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It is a type of standard component marking. U usually means IC. U4x could be one circuit function such as power chips U5x can be other functions such as memory, U1x might be controller... where the "x" is a number of the component It is a way of knowing which components belong to what circuit function.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: March 30th, 2018, 13:29 
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HaQue wrote:
It is a type of standard component marking. U usually means IC. U4x could be one circuit function such as power chips U5x can be other functions such as memory, U1x might be controller... where the "x" is a number of the component It is a way of knowing which components belong to what circuit function.



Well,
I am absolutely clear on this ,My question was Why Read U51 As Chip 1 And U50 As Chip 2 .I have a Good Electronics Background Haque

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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: April 1st, 2018, 5:22 
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Who said read u51 as chip 1?

I have always read lowest to highest..


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2018, 13:12 
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NANDoff wrote:
Who said read u51 as chip 1?

I have always read lowest to highest..



Sir ,
Since how much time are you doing NAND Chipoff :shock: . Please Have a Peek Here ,Specially on BGA NAND Chips -> http://flash-extractor.com/library/SM/SM2236/

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Amarbir S Dhillon , Chandigarh Data Recovery Labs
Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
Website-> http://www.chandigarhdatarecovery.com


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2018, 14:47 
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Joined: October 24th, 2009, 15:22
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Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
Sir ,
Since how much time are you doing NAND Chipoff :shock: . Please Have a Peek Here ,Specially on BGA NAND Chips -> http://flash-extractor.com/library/SM/SM2236/


You talk to one of the most experienced flash guy ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2018, 15:22 
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arvika wrote:
Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
Sir ,
Since how much time are you doing NAND Chipoff :shock: . Please Have a Peek Here ,Specially on BGA NAND Chips -> http://flash-extractor.com/library/SM/SM2236/


You talk to one of the most experienced flash guy ;)


Might Be ,
But even i am not wrong in my observation to the top stated facts ,I would really love a explanation

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Logical,Semi Physical And Physical Data Recovery
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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2018, 20:38 
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Joined: December 4th, 2012, 1:35
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The soft Center manual for reading chips is probably the only reference to a standardised way of doing it. It is just so everyone that uses SC tool is on the same page when reading chips for FE. It is not any industry standard or anything, just a guide for that tool.

What matters is finding the dump order, not really what order the chips are numbered. The only way this helps is reall prior experience on a certain device.

The jury is out on whether the PCB designers label their IC's in the same order that the firmware designers plan to use them, in relation to the order. My guess would be that it is a crap shoot

dont sweat the small stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2018, 21:26 
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Joined: March 19th, 2015, 15:01
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Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
NANDoff wrote:
Who said read u51 as chip 1?

I have always read lowest to highest..



Sir ,
Since how much time are you doing NAND Chipoff :shock: . Please Have a Peek Here ,Specially on BGA NAND Chips -> http://flash-extractor.com/library/SM/SM2236/

IMHO Definitely before you


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: April 2nd, 2018, 21:53 
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
most people link to the SC manual on chip order: http://flash-extractor.com/manual/chip_numbers/
but as I said, it is just what SC decided on and for that tool. as you can see the CF card goes 1,2,3,4 == U22,U23,U21,U24

So don't get hung up on PCB markings. As you can see here:
http://www.flash-extractor.com/library/SM/SM2236/SM2236G%20AC__2c_48_00_26__4x2

4 chips with 2 banks (crystals) each.
chip 1 (U22) = dumps 0,1
chip 2 (U23) = dumps 2,3
chip 3 (U21) = dumps 4,5
chip 4 (U24) = dumps 6,7

model states order of dumps to rebuild logical image is 4/0/2/6/5/1/3/7

so that is:
U21, crystal 1
U22, crystal 1
U23, crustal 1
U24, crystal 1
U21, crystal 2
U22, crystal 2
U23, crustal 2
U24, crystal 2

so it does work out to be PCB marking order.

In flash, you just have to do whatever works. Often you will get stuff that makes no sense at all.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandisk CF Card Ultra 32G (SDTNQGBMB-016G NAND)
PostPosted: April 3rd, 2018, 8:37 
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jermy wrote:
Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
NANDoff wrote:
Who said read u51 as chip 1?

I have always read lowest to highest..



Sir ,
Since how much time are you doing NAND Chipoff :shock: . Please Have a Peek Here ,Specially on BGA NAND Chips -> http://flash-extractor.com/library/SM/SM2236/

IMHO Definitely before you


Well,
You Are Also Here And i Am Also Here For The Next Three Months You Wait And Watch .The Proper Explaination is Here -> viewtopic.php?p=257768#p257768 .Most of The Controllers Embed Thier Controller No in the NAND dumps ,So To Arrange Them In Order Its Necessary To check Them and Set The Order of The Dumps .I have a SM2236 Right Now and i Will Post The Details Soon Incase Someone Does Not Know .I had Some of The Initial NAND Tools From Acelab but never ventured deep into flash ,Things Are Very Different Now Buddy .In My Case i Have a Chip With 4 Parts Each ,Hence 16 Parts In Total :D

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