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 Post subject: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 7th, 2015, 4:59 
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Joined: April 22nd, 2010, 16:58
Posts: 28
Location: Irvine, California
So I report my fried board to mrt - guess what their response was?

That its my fault. That I must have had a power cable plugged in wrong !?

How does that even make sense?

Do they think the power thats going into the mrt board - hows that possible when its been running for months unchanged.
Do they think I somehow forced the SATA power connector onto the drive wrong?
ITS KEYED - IT CANT GO ON WRONG.
Not only that - but first you connect the drive.
Then you click power in the program.

So they are telling me its human error and that I can have another for $180.
THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!
Customer service is not one of MRT's strong points.
Basically they couldn't care less about the customers or support or their needs.

Try getting support it very difficult. They basically ignore you and are in no hurry to respond.
They had me standing by waiting once till 3am - then after 45 minutes of more waiting it was
quitting time in china so they said sayonarra...
I mean its 9 am in china when it 6pm my time - they could be a little more cognizant.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 7th, 2015, 5:14 
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Location: In your hard drive.
Your giving me SalvationData PTSD flashbacks...

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - supports answer: How to cross power.
PostPosted: October 7th, 2015, 15:16 
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Joined: April 22nd, 2010, 16:58
Posts: 28
Location: Irvine, California
So I asked MRT how it was even possible to cross the power.
They kindly explained it to me with this picture:

Its the card - out of the computer - with the power crossed.

Do they understand that this card is installed in the computer?
That means that the computer is powered-off
then the card is inserted into the slot and screwed in.
and the D-shaped power connector is inserted into the card.
Then the computer is powered up - its basically permanent.
You run the software, attach your seagate, and click power-on....or should I say FLAME-ON !

Once its setup - you don't touch it anymore - its been this way for months.
So they are suggesting that I must have randomly decided to disrupted the working
setup and replug the power to the card !?
yeah... right... its either that or their new cards protection circuit didnt work
nah couldn't be that...must be stupid end-user... china design is perfect.

So to all the other cards that fry the same way - it will be the same answer.

Here for you enjoyment is a helpful guide in how to cross power !
Attachment:
mrt_how_to_cross_power.jpg
mrt_how_to_cross_power.jpg [ 41.46 KiB | Viewed 11491 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 7th, 2015, 18:04 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
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What are the markings on the 4 square ICs (U7, U8, U9 ...)? If these are the power switching MOSFETs, then it should be easy to confirm whether they have any internal overcurrent protection.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 8th, 2015, 11:05 
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Joined: June 26th, 2014, 5:08
Posts: 137
Location: China
After receiving message about the damaged card, our engineers checked carefully according to the information you offered and determined that should be caused by reverse connection of power cables. As there is short-circuit protection in the chip, it is not possible that shorted Seagate can make it burn. If it could be the problem, we should have received many complaints of burnt cards since MRT Express card was released in April. There is no doubt that our R&D team has taken the security factors into consideration, which is the most important for a product.

By the way, we all know the two-layer MRT Pro card was re-designed into one layer (MRT Express)according to our scheme. The new device is with smaller volume, easier installation, better dispersion and more stable performance. I’m sure that it is much better than the old version, and that is why it is called hardware upgrade -- to optimize the hardware design. It is common sense for each engineer that testing each part of the tool is essential before the design is finalized. And we have much more strict standard for products we send abroad. That is also the reason why we’re still testing MRT Ultra (4 SATA + 1 IDE) card in our country before releasing the English version to global market, which has been long-expected among DR technicians around the world. In addition, as the most MRT tools we sell abroad are online version, the sale depends largely on the product performance as users can stop paying for it whenever they don’t feel like it. We will not take the risk of losing our clients. On the other hand, sometimes there can still be non-human damage of the card after it leaves factory for various reasons, long way of shipping, different voltage and temperature etc. As a rule here, after we confirm the hardware problem, the user can get a new card for free from local distributor or from us directly.

As for your case, we never doubt your expertise because it can sometimes happen even with the highly-experienced engineers when you operate with less caution. To solve the problem, we offered you the final solution -- send you a new card with the hardware cost borne by you, which is reasonable. But you refused and insisted that it is not your fault, then came with much complaints and unpleasant words. In my point of view, if you really want to get the problem solved, this is not a good choice.

You have been offering various opinions and demands about the hardware and software part of MRT tool. As you said, we should take them as good willingness to improve this tool. Taking a look into our forums and other online communication tools, we can easily find that you said much about this tool. And we answered them one by one with no neglect whatever it is. While the truth is, there is no tool that can get 100% satisfaction for a certain user. The needs of each person can be various, while it is not a customized tool, and no matter how much we want it to be perfect overnight, it has to be developed step by step and every breakthrough needs a lot of time and energy. It is the same for all DR tools.

In a word, I honestly suggest you contact us to get a new card so as to get this problem solved for good. We don’t want to lose you as customer who have used this tool for about 1 year and we’re here with the hope to do better.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 8th, 2015, 11:49 
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Joined: February 9th, 2009, 16:13
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Location: Ontario, Canada
I had an older PC3K UDMA board which fried several times. We were able to fix it every time, but it was a frankenstein with extra wires all over the place...couldn't wait to get it upgraded to the UDMA-E before it completely died.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 8th, 2015, 11:59 
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Joined: July 2nd, 2014, 8:05
Posts: 195
One of parties didn't follow warranty policies, huh? :)
I don't know much about this tool/policy, but solution is pretty simple here and can be fair for both.
If hardware comes with 1 year / 1 month (?) of warranty, NO MATTER WHAT happened, during this period you must replace it (mechanical damage is exception) FOR FREE.
If NO MATTER WHICH damage occured when warranty is expired, you HAVE TO PAY for repair/exchange.
Look at any other tool, this is how stuff works, DR tool is no exception, it's hardware/electronics.

P.S. I think "sayonara" is Japanese, not Chinese :)

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 8th, 2015, 13:26 
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 0:19
Posts: 1970
Location: Providence, RI
If the 1 yr warranty is up and they only want a couple hundred dollars to replace the card, I wouldn't say you're getting ripped off. At least they aren't demanding that you buy the whole system over again. I too had a power board for PC-3000 burn when I plugged a bad drive in, it literally lit on fire in my computer. As it was only a month old Ace immediately mailed me a replacement power board and I just sent back the old one.

As a suggestion to MRT, it might be worth losing a bit of money replacing a card that's a little out of warranty even if it's just to protect your reputation. People really appreciate when you go the extra mile for them. Ace has always done that, providing a bit more than is technically required of them, and it's part of why they have such loyal customers.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 8th, 2015, 14:28 
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Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:49
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Location: Portugal
I ALLWAYS start by conecting the drives that I recieve for recovery directly to a stand alone PC power supply (with green and black wire shorted so it will boot/work) and only if i confirm that the drive doesn't smoke and it's properly spinning, etc only then I connect the drive to HRT or whatever tool or even to a regular PC.

It saved me several times now as at least in 2 cases i have the drive literaly start burning (pcb smoked with flames). Good idea to first check and only then connect the drive to the tools ...

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 8th, 2015, 15:25 
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Joined: January 4th, 2010, 5:12
Posts: 215
Location: Dubai U.A.E
I ALLWAYS start by conecting the drives that I recieve for recovery directly to a stand alone PC power supply (with green and black wire shorted so it will boot/work) and only if i confirm that the drive doesn't smoke and it's properly spinning, etc only then I connect the drive to HRT or whatever tool or even to a regular PC.

Dear Spildit I don't think that's Good Idea why can't we check PCB first with Multi meter instead risking of burning whole PCB, Bad PCB might Damage Heads Preamp ....


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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 8th, 2015, 15:43 
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Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 12587
Location: Australia
Am I to understand that people who claim to be professionals take an unknown drive and plug it into their US$3K and $10K hardware without performing the most rudimentary tests prior to doing so? A cheap multimeter costs less than US$5, and a simple resistance check across the drive's supply inputs should take less than a minute.

In any case, how is it that PC3K failed to alert the user to an overcurrent condition? Doesn't PC3K produce a V-I graph, and wouldn't this graph have told the OP that there was a short on the HDD? If so, then why didn't the OP address the short circuit before proceeding? Moreover, if the drive didn't spin up, why didn't this prompt the OP to examine the PCB?

If the MRT card really is a clone of an Ace Lab product, then this would explain why both cards appear to have the same design problem. I agree with the OP that the power switching part of the design should be implemented as a separate low cost module, and this module should ideally be repairable by the user.

As for whether it is possible for the OP to have reversed the Molex connector, I would ask several questions. Do the 4 power switching ICs (?) receive their logic power from the D-connector, or do they get it from the motherboard? If the control logic gets +5V from the D-connector, and the ICs are spec-ed for supply voltages less than 12V, then a polarity reversal should have killed all 4 ICs, not just one.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 8th, 2015, 16:21 
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Joined: February 9th, 2009, 16:13
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Location: Ontario, Canada
In my case with the PC3K card getting fried several times, it was not due to a bad drive...just a faulty card. The drives connected were reading before it failed and continued to read (on another system) after it fried. It has been so long, many years ago, so I cannot remember the details.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 12th, 2015, 18:05 
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Joined: April 22nd, 2010, 16:58
Posts: 28
Location: Irvine, California
Ok so some questions have been posed:

Why plug the drive directly to pc3k - instead of ps?
Yes probably should have, was in a hurry... drive came out of a seagate enclosure, so figured it might have just been an enclosure issue. The pc3k has always handled everything without an issue - this was a first, now Ill be more careful.

Doesnt pc3k give over-voltage warning?
Dont think so... I havent seen that any where.

Why take it to mrt if it was dead on pc3k?
Usually these shorted drives dont do anything at all - they are just completely dead.
But this one gave me 3 green lights and no spin or terminal. The mrt actually seems to be able to do some terminal
tricks that pc3k cant do. Like mrt can get into boot mode without shorting points.
Mrt can write the rom, and they have some other diagnostics.
So I was curious to see if the mrt could do anything more with this semi functional board.

Warranty 1 year questions.
The card is about 2 months old. Never saw any warranty information.... but the card is
being paid for monthly - 150/mo. There is no contract or agreement - they just sent it.
$180 is the price to replace - its also the price of the new card. I dont think there is anything
super-special about the card. Everything could be done with regular sata ports, comports and power-switch.
I think the card is basically a software dongle. It probably costs them a fraction of that to replace.
Since its a beta new product I think they should stand behind it. Their 'excuse' to not stand behind it
is their ridiculous assertion that I crossed the power. I used the mrt at 2:01 pm to read the donor-rom. the computer
suddenly halted at 2:01 pm. Thats because I had just connected the patient and powered it up.
So they are trying to say that after running the card as is for weeks that I suddenly reached into the computer unplugged
the permanent power - flipped it over and jammed it crossed!? Thats going pretty far to not stand behind your new
design and new product. But I can just stop paying for the card and they will shutoff the license, whatever
I dont care, their support is difficult, this is another symptom of it. There are language and docs issues.
The sw has some new tricks as a repair tool, but using it to clone or DE recover drives is difficult.

The card still actually works, it just cant switch power on one of the 2 ports - so I give it external power.
Ill try try to send some better pictures.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 12th, 2015, 18:18 
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Joined: August 19th, 2007, 17:30
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drdoc wrote:
The mrt actually seems to be able to do some terminal
tricks that pc3k cant do. Like mrt can get into boot mode without shorting points.

Actually PC3K has been doing that for awhile now.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 13th, 2015, 16:45 
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drdoc wrote:
Doesnt pc3k give over-voltage warning?
Dont think so... I havent seen that any where.

I didn't mention overvoltage. I was referring to overcurrent. ISTR that these tools produce a current-versus-time graph for each of the supply voltages (not V-I as I previously stated).

If you stand by your claim that you did not wrongly connect the power plug, then allow me to confirm it for you by providing the information I requested. I promise I won't use these "secrets" to manufacture my own card.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: October 16th, 2015, 17:04 
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Joined: July 2nd, 2014, 8:05
Posts: 195
drdoc wrote:
Never saw any warranty information...


Then you won a dispute IMHO.
Being a vendor - take some level of responsibility for what you're making/selling or at least mention info on the web (I think even 1-3 month of warraty for such price would be OK).
You might be wrong about the selfcost of the board, it's not just 20-30 usd in total.
For instance motherboards are so cheap because they produced like 50000 pcs or more and all components bought by lowest bulk price.
When you make devices like 100-300 pcs, price is much higher for PCB manufacturing, components and assembly.
Sometimes when you order 100 pcs, you pay like 3x more than if you order 2000 pcs.
Add +50% for 4-layer PCB comparing to 2-layer.

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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: November 7th, 2015, 10:55 
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Joined: August 23rd, 2010, 0:26
Posts: 5
Location: Egypt
old mrt design has protection on it
try to add shorted hdd and there red led instead off green
but i hear that in old design that power board has been fault once or two time so it's electronic every thing is possible
what make cpu processor under fan fault or fired ( It's Electronic )
my opinion warranty should be the word
i didn't use or even try shorted hdd for new one


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 Post subject: Re: mrt epxress fried - mrts response.
PostPosted: November 7th, 2015, 10:58 
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Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:49
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Salah wrote:
old mrt design has protection on it
try to add shorted hdd and there red led instead off green
but i hear that in old design that power board has been fault once or two time so it's electronic every thing is possible
what make cpu processor under fan fault or fired ( It's Electronic )
my opinion warranty should be the word
i didn't use or even try shorted hdd for new one


Maybe newer PC-3000 PCBs suffer from the same "problem" as they are very simmilar to MRT ??? :D :D :D

Again best of all in NOT TO PLUG the shorted HDD to MRT/whatever tool to start with :)

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