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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 14th, 2009, 4:30 
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Joined: December 10th, 2006, 18:24
Posts: 72
That cited case is not representative for a newbie, that is just stubborn. I consider myself a newbie and was shocked how ignorant that person was. In such a case one deserves to lose one's data but most of the gurus were answering quite tempered and gave solid advice and warnings.

I am here to read about problems that can occur with HDDs. What I'm interested in when I start a topic here is not to steal anyone's wisdom which is the basis for his daily work. What I rather seek is advice what kind of problem my drive has: DIY or professional. And if it's for a professional the gurus here can give rough estimates if it's a 200$ or a 2000$ job for a pro.

And I don't think that there are many cases where a DR business loses a customer because he succeded in DIY with help from here. Many try DIY just because the data is not that valuable to them and the DR prices are too high for them. But they know they may fail.

Hopefully hddguru stays an open forum where newbies can learn without feeling the immediate urge to open a DR business themselves.

Best regards
weaker


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 14th, 2009, 7:24 
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Joined: March 28th, 2008, 7:52
Posts: 1466
Location: Europe, Hungary
Weaker,

The problem is, there are a LOT of type of people's thinking.
I have seen more cases, when the data is REALLY important, and the customer really want to pay anything for it, but before arrived, the drive was opened, played, sctarched with screwdriver, platters removed and so on... :(
The data loosing cases not always simple!

Anyway, i think the best is, if we can make 3 levels in the forum:
1. "any" thing - an open forum, like this.
2. "guru" level - only some person can write here, but anybody can read it.
3. PM level. :D

In this way we have not solved anything, because the coming newbies don't know the levels, and will scream in the 1st, but don't know, who is an another newbie, and who is a pro.
This is why i suggested some type of mark to the profiles....

Janos


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 14th, 2009, 14:57 
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Joined: February 11th, 2008, 18:07
Posts: 166
.

I agree with both Maysoft and Spildit, HDDGuru to remain an open forum for all.


Quote:
fo·rum (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr)

1.
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b. A public meeting place for open discussion.
c. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.

2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.

3. A court of law; a tribunal.

[Middle English, from Latin; see dhwer- in Indo-European roots.]

forum
Noun
1. a meeting or medium for the open discussion of subjects of public interest
2. (in ancient Roman cities) an open space serving as a marketplace and centre of public business
3. (in South Africa) a pressure group of leaders and representatives [Latin]


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 14th, 2009, 17:58 
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Joined: December 10th, 2006, 18:24
Posts: 72
@N.C.

But we have already the situation that people are helping others out via PM if they don't want to write it in public. I think this is a very good solution and up to the individual to decide what to make public and what not.
Therefore I think the forum like it is today is organized very well and I wish that it will stay like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 14th, 2009, 18:14 
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Joined: March 28th, 2008, 7:52
Posts: 1466
Location: Europe, Hungary
weaker wrote:
@N.C.

But we have already the situation that people are helping others out via PM if they don't want to write it in public. I think this is a very good solution and up to the individual to decide what to make public and what not.
Therefore I think the forum like it is today is organized very well and I wish that it will stay like that.


But, there is a huge difference, if the newbie gives an advice in PM.
The others can't see it, and only one drive will ruined, not many more......

Think about this again, please. :)

Janos


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 17th, 2009, 19:36 
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Joined: December 10th, 2006, 18:24
Posts: 72
Yes it's true that some will read the tip and just try it for themselves without asking if the posting applies to their situation, too. If they just mindlessly apply the tip they may damage their drives and lose the data. So what? Not everyone can be wrapped up in cotton wool. People need to think a little about what they're doing. Especially if they are gambling with their data. IMO the gurus here write quite clear warnings (if needed) when they post tips.

But the reverse situation also applies: If a tip is wrong and hidden in a PM there won't be any discussion about it and someone may lose data unnecessarily. (OK, it's only one person but he could have been helped).
If someone's not often around here, it's hard to know whose tips to trust (OK, post count perhaps).

Anyway, better help via PM than no help at all :D

Just my 2c


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 18th, 2009, 0:07 
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Joined: February 27th, 2009, 3:26
Posts: 1721
Location: French Polynesia Tahiti
The idea behind of all of this is not to close down the forum. It is to help out people to understand that there are certain things that are physically possible to do on their own and then there are things that just require the knowledge of a professional. It is hard to determine from some posts which falls into what catagory. But after probing and asking a lot of question you can finally get some clear answers to make a detmination as to what is best for the data on the drive. To go ahead and explain in some details how to fix the drive on their own or be realistic that it is impossible for them to do this on their own. People here are correct when they say will a Doctor tell you how to remove the cancer that is eatting away at your system or will he tell you that he need to do it himself. Well with a hard drive it is almost the same. There is a type of cancer eatting away at the drive and depending on how far it has gone depends on who can remove it and save the drive. Also it is good if people here will listen to the advise that is given. Maybe then the answer would not be so bad to hear all the time. I think that reading and learning all that can be done from the forum before posting is not such a bad idea. It is better to understand more so when you do post the answer will be given so that you will understand what they are saying to you.

Status is not such a bad idea so that people can understand that what they are reading is a good answer and not just something that will destroy their drive and data. Not everyone wants to hear it has to go to a pro for repair. They understand that is the time it is going to cost money to get back what they have lost. Yes there are some who can do small repairs on their own like lost partitons, deleted files, burned TVS. But when it comes to knocking heads, spindle motor, and platter change who do you belive in to do this work. Yourself being fresh off the street and walking into this forum for the frist time or someone that has been doing this for 10 to 25 years and understand what it takes to save the drive and get back the data off of it.

OK that is all do not want to go on. Think that all suggestions are good, waiting period. learning to search forum before posting, status for answers that will save the person's drive but making a special section only for pros might hurt a few people's feelings if they are not invited to be in that sections. Here if things were cool and the new people really needed help and had or were low income families maybe there could be a section in here like they do for legal help. The person could pay for repair on a payment plan. Know we are not bankers but due to the economy now a days it is hard to come up with large sums of money for DR recovery. Maybe that could help ease the pain in the recovery cost of the drives. Just an idea but don't pay attention to me. Thank for my 2 cents.

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 18th, 2009, 5:23 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
Posts: 7474
Location: ITALY
No comment...


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 19th, 2009, 13:34 
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Joined: February 27th, 2009, 3:26
Posts: 1721
Location: French Polynesia Tahiti
Spildit@

You are free to do what you want and to think as you please. Just remember that in doing so you are not only hurting yourself but others. This is not a game to be played to get even with some and hurt others. Do as you see fit but if you want respect then go about it another way and not on this track you are on right now to destroy all that is here for others.

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 19th, 2009, 15:15 
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Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 12:14
Posts: 445
Location: Austria / Europe
Spildit@

Imagine you have learned quite a while to get a specific position respectively
a specific income. Suddenly you have to learn, that someone you thought you
helped with hints here and there - publishes openly all the information which
costed you a long time to learn, understand, energy and money.

Imagine this for any profession you can think about. How would you feel if it
happens to yourself?

---

Commercially thoughts: How many "big cases" do you really think are out there?
Definitely, not so much. So what makes the DR specialists stay alive - that are
the manny small and medium cases. And as there is today mainly payment only for
recovered data - its not only a fight for the business, but also for daily survival.

And now - there is a guy in an international forum - declaring "I will collect all
information acquirable and publish it, because I want to do that and I dont
care about you."

---

Reading your posts in the past - specially those where you reacted like a little
child who found something impressing new and presents that to everyone around -
was somehow strange (for an adult), but somehow nice aswell - to see someone
using his brain and doing own research.

I dont know your age, but if you are adult, then you are clever, but brutal and dum.
Is it for becoming "the person who disclosed DR secrets" ?

If you are a youngster ( I may say that because I am 54 ) please use your good brain,
read again my first clause of above - and rethink this matter.

+++


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 19th, 2009, 16:41 
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Joined: March 28th, 2008, 7:52
Posts: 1466
Location: Europe, Hungary
@ phoere, spildit

The sharing of knowledge is generally good, i am absolutely sure.
We need to think not for we only, but for the other people too.
I don't think to periodically re-invent the wheel is good for the people all over ther world.

But there is 2 thing wich is important:
1. Sharing a BAD/missunderstood knowledge is really bad, and make a change for a lot of people to ruin hes data forever.
2. There is a lot of methode/technique wich needs practiced/skilled person/hands to do it , and NOT FOR A NEWBIE!

Please keep this in mind!

Janos

Ps: the info, wich are in the newbies or beginner/average DR people's head is all in the open internet already.
So re-share it is not a problem, but without the environment, or re-share it with some missing/missed parts is only bad for everybody!

This is why i am suggested the separated part of the forum wich is readonly by the beginners....


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 19th, 2009, 22:06 
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Joined: February 27th, 2009, 3:26
Posts: 1721
Location: French Polynesia Tahiti
@N.C.

I completely agree with you. I was making a statement that if Spildit continues on like this it is only going to hurt others chances to recovre their data at a reasonable cost. I am not posting all kinds of home rememdys and DIY schemes on the internet to try and destroy the chance for recoverying hard drives. If there is an actual problem with a head stack inside the drive and people read somethng concerning that model and try to do it with that solution before understanding the real problem the drive has stopped working it is only going to cost them their data or in the end and extreme amount of money to get it back.

You suggestions are very good and warrent looking into. I do believe that we see maybe 10 to 20 post all on the same subject all the time. Burned PCB boards, pictures, and which is the TVS chip that needs to be taken care of. I think if people had to do a little research and search on here for just a few days they could find what they were looking for and leave room for other questions that could be answered.

I understand that people only come here once to seek help for free and ask questions so they can save costs on drive repair. Wrong answers cost them their data, take it to a pro makes them angry, truth can not be handled by most, and panic is the worst of all when it comes to lost data and needing it back. It is hard if you have a real problem that needs to be addressed and when asking a question here it is not possible to receive the answers from someone else. You are correct when you say that the pros need to have a place they can post some questions and answers and in this respect will not harm anyone what so ever especially a new person seeking help for the first time who does not understand what you are talking about and could think it applies to his drive and tries this fix it for repairing his drive and destroys it in the end. Well who is to blame it can't be you. You are not the one that told him to try this method. But if methods that need personal attention are not posted on the forum and in private there should be no hard to anyone involved what so ever.

On the other hand all the pros who wish to share and in private can all get together and ceate another forum for private use and leave this one as it is open to the public. Then they have the option if they want to come here to visit and post help or just stay on their other forum and receive help that is needed to survive in this business. That way there is no more war between members and people saying they will post all results on the open forum. Then it is them who will suffer and not you. On the other hand you also have the option to post or not that is your choice. You can limit your posts to someone who you feel really deserves help and will not hurt you in the end and not post to the ones that you feel will hurt the DR community by posting all results they have found.

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 20th, 2009, 1:09 
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Joined: September 2nd, 2008, 12:14
Posts: 445
Location: Austria / Europe
@Spildit

You receive and learn on one hand new knowledge - and blazon it out "like the big pro"
on other side in different forums. There you emit the impression, that all DR pros are
bandits and "only you" are the one to fight against it.

There are black sheep in every profession. If you want to go against them, ok, then
you have to do that for all other professions aswell.

But you are lazy - its easier to "fight" against the whole business.
---

In about 30 years of selling and 22 years of them in dealing in IT service, I have learned
that people only will hear and understand what they want to hear.

You tell them: "It can work, but be careful you could harm your system"
They understand: " It will work "
Finally, when it did not work (in over 90% the cases) they come back and argue:
"YOU have told me, it will work" ---> and as they are the "protected end consumer"
they even "could" make a lot of problems.

And now, there is a unbelieving guy, with the intention to pass on firmware data and
hdd commands to the public. Thats soooo dum.

It will again create
- 1) the impression ITS SO EASY TO FIX
- 2) these DR guys are all bandits
- 3) a lot of new DIY caeses, where more harm is done to data and drives

quote:
After all the propriatary vendor commands are propriatary from Maxtor, Seagate, Samsung, etc .... not Ace, not Salvation ...
unquote

Yes, but these companies did a lot of research - its reverse-engeneering - and their
customers pay for the easier usage and the much quicker results.

I bet, if you would have the money, you would buy these tools yourself - now
you behave like a jealousy child.

no more to say
+++


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 20th, 2009, 4:23 
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Joined: March 28th, 2008, 7:52
Posts: 1466
Location: Europe, Hungary
falther wrote:
...I have learned
that people only will hear and understand what they want to hear.

You tell them: "It can work, but be careful you could harm your system"
They understand: " It will work "
Finally, when it did not work (in over 90% the cases) they come back and argue:
"YOU have told me, it will work" ---> and as they are the "protected end consumer"
they even "could" make a lot of problems.
...


Totally agree! :lol:
I have seen this a lot of times...

Janos


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 23rd, 2009, 9:45 
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Posts: 7843
Location: UK
There is no Chinese UDMA

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: May 25th, 2009, 23:10 
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Joined: October 23rd, 2008, 6:11
Posts: 110
GENERALLY, I BELIEVE A GREAT JOB HAS BEEN DONE HERE.


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: July 31st, 2009, 18:40 
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Joined: October 21st, 2005, 0:45
Posts: 1516
Location: Mexico
Well Spildit by u post, im suppose u are youngest, let me told u something im start on this forum like on the end of 2004, i was so "youngest" too at that time 23 years old , but i learn something value, if u start on a place where there are another more respectable people than u with more experience, and knowledgment, and startling like a newbie u should get what does they told u,im not telling u are a newbie, but here are people with the half of year working on DR, than me and when i started i learn to "hear " what does people told me , about how should act on this forum.

Regards

Thats IMHO


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: August 9th, 2009, 5:21 
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Joined: August 9th, 2007, 8:40
Posts: 789
Location: United Kingdom
Falther has some interesting points..

What about a section where ..

Code:
My Hard Disk is Dead ...
My Hard Disk is Making Noises ...
.. Clicking
.. Motor Noises
.. Buzzing
I dropped my hard Disk ...
My pet Elephant sat on my laptop and it stopped working ...
I deleted all my files
etc


Just let the user access this section until they get the acknowlegemnt email, can this be dealyed for say 1 or 2 hours ?

Under sections where professional assistance is required, perhaps a list of member companies in the different coutries would help both the user and the company Using PM or email contact ?

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If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you probably don't fully understand the situation. ... Mr Kipling

https://www.mjm.co.uk/


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: August 9th, 2009, 10:34 
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Joined: October 19th, 2006, 11:56
Posts: 217
Quote:
My pet Elephant sat on my laptop and it stopped working ...

:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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I just hate spammers...It was a Spammer, who ruined my life!


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: August 10th, 2009, 14:15 
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Joined: July 18th, 2006, 3:05
Posts: 7474
Location: ITALY
My pet Elephant sat on my laptop and it stopped working ...

... thought I was the only one here having pets weighing more than 500 KG.

:mrgreen:


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