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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 17th, 2018, 17:29 
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Nice find, I'll probably take a course there or similar colleges that offer such classes, better than an expensive week seminar.


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 18:59 
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digicube wrote:
After watching youtube videos, DR is not really that hard. You just need the expensive tools and a few weeks of training. It's not like computer programming where you need 4 years of college.


Try to properly learn how to use PC-3000, MRT, SeDiv, etc for each brand of drive and firmware arch ....

Data recovery professionals need years to start having an idea on how firmware works and it does require several drives to sacrifice and kill for good along the way ...

It's not just the $$$ for the tools, it's the $$$ for the drives of all "series" that you do want to study/learn + it's not all about head stack replacement (clean room work) you need to learn some basic stuff about PCBs, at least you need to know when you do need to replace/swap ROM chips and when that is not required, etc .... and then you do have to deal with firmware that is not the same from drive to drive .... assuming your $6000 USD PC-3000 do support the drive model that you do have (forget about latest drives like He filled HGST, etc) ... and then you do need to start learning ATA commands to understand what you are doing and learn about VSCs to fill the gaps that commercial tools have .... you keep on searching, rsearching and study for years as a full time job and you will never know all that there is to know as new models enter the market and tech will evolve for example from standard platter moving hdd to solid state ----

Good luck, have fun learning !

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 19:41 
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Wish there are online classes for such thing. Some DR expert should make a Udemy class.


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 20:42 
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digicube wrote:
Wish there are online classes for such thing. Some DR expert should make a Udemy class.


People will not teach you the "tricks" hey are using to make $$$ ....

If you pay $6000 for a PC-3000 and then you grab the commands (VSCs) out of it you are not going to share it for free so that another person without spending one cent can for example unlock drives, change passport, fix firmware, recover data, etc ....

If you pay for tools you do want to 1) make the money back to pay the investment and 2) get some clients and fix some drives as most likely you are doing DR as a business.

Now you gain knowlege and study and research and that knowledge can be turned in money.

If i do live near you and if i did pay for example $20 000 in tools and classes, etc most likely i will not teach you even if you pay me $500 the tricks on getting data back as 1) you will compete with me and 2) you will learn from me for free/very cheap price and you will provide a service that is way cheaper as you didn't invest that much so i will end up not only loosing clients to you but also i will loose the money of my investment providing it to you for free.

Example :

There are a batch of new "x" brand drives that have firmware problem "y".
There are "z" tool that costs $5000 and does fix "y" problem.
I buy "z" tool and i reverse it. I find that it does use just a single VSC to fix "y" problem.

Now ...

I can fix "y" problem, recover data and charge $300 for example and i will get the money back of "z" tool and get some profit as well.

I can code software "s" using VSC carved from "z" tool and sell if for $1000. I will get the money back of investing on "z" tool with 5 sales of my own tool and people can use my $1000 tool as replacement for $5000 one and fix "y" problem and get $300.

Or i can do both, get money from tool + data recovery services ... I can research VSC and try to find variants and adapt to new drives, etc ....

OR ...

I can post the command for free.

Now if i post the command for free or teach you how to fix the issue for let's say a $100 or even $500 class i will get a one time payment of $100 that will not cover my investment of $5000. You will be able to fix the issue for free and post the sollution, people will check the web and learn the sollution for free, etc ... and i will be stuck with an expense of $5000 - the price of a single "teaching" of my method/command to you and will loose money big time.

Even teaching by remote have big disadvantages even if you charge money ....

There are limitations to what one shoud teach and/or not if one does want to make money or not ....

The big problem is that you will have to pay to get tools + knowlege. It's not like you will be able to ge VSCs from drive makers and firmware tools from them as well (for free) ...

Even if you are doing DR just as hobby for fun you don't want to buy something like a tool for a huge amount of money and then send it out for free knowing that by doing that the tool will be available on the net to all one day or another and you will loose all the money that you did spend buying it.

I think it's ok if you do want to fix drives as hobby for a lower price or even for free, etc but sharing too much of what you did learn by reversing things that you did pay a huge amount of money for might not be a good "sollution" as well unless you do like to send money to the garbage bin ...

I can see how people could somehow code some tools even if they are free like the ZU projects, etc to do some functions (unlock some ATA password) as you will have some "credit" even if your project is free ... You will be known as the guy who coded tool z or b even if those tools are freeware and they are very limited, it might help you to get a job, etc ....

Now getting info by paying and then posting it is just loosing money unless you do have a good valid reason to do so i don't think that anyone will be willing to "sell" you a full course of DR knowing that you will be competing sooner or later with that same person that will loose some advantage over you. If i'm the only one that can rebuild ROM on F3 arch i can ask whatever price i want. If i sell you the secret and you start repairing drives for half of the price i will loose a huge amount of money ... and if you decide to post the info on the net .... you get the picture ....

And then of course we start to see people using the sollution that you post to ALL drives, not the ones having the "y" problem but ALL drives ... and now that you did post this sollution on the net people do want data back for free and as soon as they have ANY problem with their drive even if it's a diferent brand and problem they use your posted sollution to fix the drive ... and now assume that the VSC will kill for good other brands of drives or other families of drives just because you do use the wrong command on the worng drive .... ?!

This topic is about people wanting to fix drives for free/cheap without knowing what they are doing .... like this :

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1427

Congratullations, you killed your drive for good, now even if you go to a "pro" you can't no longer retrieve the data ... happy ?

Then you have another question ... the other side of the coin .... what a "professional" is ?

You might advertize yourself as a DR professional but you don't have the tool to fix problem "y" neither you do have the knowledge / VSC to fix the issue. Now you get a drive with "y" problem and you use spinrite on it after of course leaving the drive on the freezer for days just because it did work last time with a very old model of a drive of another brand that did had 100 times less the capacity of the drive with the "y" issue ... But of course you are a "professional" so you kill the drive for good you somehow manage to hide the fact, charge some fees to the time used to kill ... er ... fix the drive and you are good to go !

You see there are several things to consider and things are not either black or white ...

You have people who invest in tools and don't know how to use them and kill client drives,
You have people who don't invest at all and kill client drives as well,
You ave people that invest and learn and can recover data, you have people who reverse code and use commands and can recover data ....

The big problem is that you can't know for sure who is who and what method someone is using because you are just a client that you don't know a thing about DR otherwise you would be recovering the drive yourself .... or better you would have backups and many of them !

D.I.Y. can go really wrong (or not) and professional work can go wrong if you are just a person pretending to be professional, and the list goes on ...

At the end of the day no-one is perfect as well and even the best of professionals can mess up big time a case or even miss something that a D.I.Y. guy does manage to figure out even if by chance and luck ...

:shock: :shock: :shock:

So ... what do you want for me to advice ? Simple ... Backup. Just avoid all of this by having several backups of the data you need to keep and in diferent midia formats and off site just in case your house burns, gets robbed, etc ...

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 20:50 
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VSC stands for Virtual Storage Console?


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 20:56 
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digicube wrote:
VSC stands for Virtual Storage Console?

Vendor Specific [ATA] Command

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: April 26th, 2019, 22:05 
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We need a Louis Rossmann or Jessa Jones in the data recovery world. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNKNjy3CoZ4

Maybe I should get into repairing smartphones instead of general data recovery because the tools are cheaper and there are teachers who are willing to teach. I think the skills required are higher.


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: April 27th, 2019, 17:54 
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I think the diagnostic skills would be infinitely higher, but at least there are friendly Apple insiders who are prepared to leak the circuit diagrams. If governments had any testicular fortitude, they would stick it to companies like Apple and mandate that they make their technical manuals available via downloadable PDFs. Apple represents all that is bad about capitalism, at least in its American form. I despise the company and its deplorable business practices. The only Apple product I will ever own, even briefly, is one that I inherit.

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: April 28th, 2019, 3:26 
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digicube wrote:
We need a Louis Rossmann or Jessa Jones in the data recovery world.

Rossman now offers data recovery:
https://rossmanngroup.com/data-recovery-service-nyc/

Quote:
Hard drives: $100 for basic recovery, $200-$250 for serious damage, $400-$900+ for anything requiring lab level tools(clean room/PC3000/conversion/decryption).

SDcards/microSD cards: $100-$150 for basic, $250+ for any physical or logical damage

Cellphones: $300-$450 for drop or liquid damage. $400+ for any damage inflicted by inept repair technicians(long screw) that is above and beyond terrible.

SSDs: $300+

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: April 28th, 2019, 6:23 
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fzabkar wrote:
digicube wrote:
We need a Louis Rossmann or Jessa Jones in the data recovery world.

Rossman now offers data recovery:
https://rossmanngroup.com/data-recovery-service-nyc/

Quote:
Hard drives: $100 for basic recovery, $200-$250 for serious damage, $400-$900+ for anything requiring lab level tools(clean room/PC3000/conversion/decryption).

SDcards/microSD cards: $100-$150 for basic, $250+ for any physical or logical damage

Cellphones: $300-$450 for drop or liquid damage. $400+ for any damage inflicted by inept repair technicians(long screw) that is above and beyond terrible.

SSDs: $300+


This is quite interesting and they are charging more than me !!! lol :D :D :D

What would they inlcude as "anything requiring lab level tools(clean room/PC3000/conversion/decryption)." ? For example a simple PCB replacement that require re-programming the PCB like in case of WD would require PC-3000 or the same sort of tool so recovery would go high ....

If you have firmware damage you will still have to pay $400-$900 .... Even "slow issue fix" will require PC-3000 ....

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: April 28th, 2019, 8:38 
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Louis Rossman is starting out and still lacks a little experience. He is a great tech from what I've seen on his videos and has mad soldering skills (might help for flash).

I believe the prices he practices is due to being located o NYC and we all know that things are more expensive over there.

Let's see if he starts to make some DR videos like Erkin.

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: April 28th, 2019, 11:26 
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fzabkar wrote:
Rossman now offers data recovery.


I meant as someone who's willing to teach as Spildit explains it's not in one's best interest to do so, but Louis and Jessa show otherwise. Erkin teaches a little on the hardware side but nothing on the software side; his videos are short and doesn't go into details but I think he has no employees so has less time available, understandable.


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: April 28th, 2019, 18:36 
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digicube wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
Rossman now offers data recovery.


I meant as someone who's willing to teach as Spildit explains it's not in one's best interest to do so, but Louis and Jessa show otherwise. Erkin teaches a little on the hardware side but nothing on the software side; his videos are short and doesn't go into details but I think he has no employees so has less time available, understandable.

Rossman has 11 employees (according to one of his videos), so I'm guessing that he doesn't necessarily do physical data recoveries himself. He may simply have hired the requisite expertise. AFAICT, the motivation for his videos stems from a deep hatred of Apple and its business practices, so I'm wondering whether he will need some other motivation before he puts data recovery on public display.

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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: April 28th, 2019, 18:39 
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fzabkar wrote:
Rossman has 11 employees (according to one of his videos), so I'm guessing that he doesn't necessarily do physical data recoveries himself. He may simply have hired the requisite expertise. AFAICT, the motivation for his videos stems from a deep hatred of Apple and its business practices, so I'm wondering whether he will need some other motivation before he puts data recovery on public display.


One reason why I prefer Jessa over Louis and she gives classes. Probably because she has a PhD and teaching experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: April 28th, 2019, 19:18 
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fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, the motivation for his videos stems from a deep hatred of Apple and its business practices, so I'm wondering whether he will need some other motivation before he puts data recovery on public display.


Just let Louis get familiar with Seagate and we will see a deep hatred for them aswell hehehehe

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