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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: July 27th, 2017, 2:10 
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Joined: December 4th, 2012, 1:35
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
You are totally welcome as a newbie. We commonly get newbies looking to start DR, "newbies" that just want to fix/recover their one hard disk never to return, Engineers or hard core hobbyists that want to flex their experience/knowledge muscles and everything in between.

What doesn't appear to be welcome is spam, hostility and flame wars about the usual topics.

Tip is to use the right forum section with relevant content and I cant see you will have a negative experience.

We are all newbies, just some have more experience than others.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: July 27th, 2017, 21:55 
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Joined: July 26th, 2017, 22:32
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Location: Tampa, Florida
Wow thanks, HaQues... I take note of what you have said.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: July 27th, 2017, 22:14 
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Location: Providence, RI
anyware69 wrote:
I, my self is a newbie on this site. I am sure I have to learn and engage with fellow forumers. questions are am I welcome here?


Newbies are totally welcome....by about 85% of the people on here. The other 15% are going to drive you crazy by constantly trying to make you feel like you aren't a "professional" because you'll occasionally do stupid things which are risky and you didn't totally understand what you were doing. They'll tell you about a hundred times that you should "outsource" it since you "clearly don't know what you're doing". They'll constantly berate you for what you don't know while refusing to offer any meaningful help to improve your knowledge, and pretty much make you feel like crap for the next 5 to 10 years every time you interact with them.

But, did I mention the other 85% of guys on here? They're actually a really cool bunch who will give you the shirt off their back and teach you a lot of what you need to know to be successful in this business.

Welcome to the forum. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: July 28th, 2017, 7:31 
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Joined: August 26th, 2012, 19:18
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Location: England
Hey anyware69, welcome.

Totally agree with Haque and data-medics.

The only other thing that will certainly draw flame is to show up and ask a question such as
"i am new to data recovery and have a clients drive ..... what do?" or anything else that compromises DR tech/eng reputation by wilful neglect.

If you do experiment, do it on your own gear.

Plenty of free tools out there. you just need time, spare drives, curiosity and a persistent attitude.

Take the Red Pill, good luck and have fun :)

K

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: August 6th, 2017, 21:46 
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Joined: July 26th, 2017, 22:32
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Location: Tampa, Florida
Once again... Thanks for the welcome!

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: August 8th, 2017, 1:31 
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digitalferret, I will surely take note of that. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 9th, 2017, 14:24 
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Joined: November 9th, 2017, 13:46
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Location: Montreal, Canada
Hi everyone!

I am new to the DR world as well and I'm very interested in learning more about data recovery, particularly Flash devices (chip-off/monolithic). I've already recovered data from several USB drives that had mechanical failures (connectors, traces etc). I guess the gurus will say that's not real DR but hey, the customers were happy!

HDD & SSD are also on the list but that will come later as I suspect Flash will be more than enough on my plate :D. I currently do micro-soldering repairs (hence my interest in Flash) on Apple products, including data recovery, but when it comes to iDevices, you have to fix them in order to be able to recover any data.

I'm curious on what folks here believe would be a good "first tool" for Flash DR. There's not much comparative info out there but from what I can gather:
    SoftCenter Flash Extractor is a go-to solution but the cost, especially the annual support subscription, seems high and the long-term support seems to be based on what mood the developer is in.
    RuSolut VNR looks like the most powerful tool but is probably "too much" for a beginner. The upfront cost and annual support fees seem like a good deal though, at least in comparison to SC-FE.
    PC-3000 Flash is backed by the industry leader but I don't see it being used much, at least from my superficial review of the limited information out there.
I guess eventually, most pro labs have most or even all three tools to cover as much ground as possible but I wonder if you could only have one to start, which would it be and why.

I will be buying a bunch of flash drives, loading them up with my data and practicing for quite a while before doing this on customer data. You gotta start somewhere!

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 9th, 2017, 15:55 
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Joined: April 3rd, 2011, 0:19
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Location: Providence, RI
Most of the guys I know who are serious about flash recoveries have all of those tools because each has its own strengths and weaknesses and each will be able to handle some cases the other two can't.

Just be prepared that flash recovery is far more complex than you probably think it is. Even with years of doing HDD recovery professionally under my belt, I'm still pretty lost when it comes to flash. That's why I just dump the NANDs and have someone else do the hard part remotely.

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 9th, 2017, 17:07 
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Location: Montreal, Canada
data-medics wrote:
Most of the guys I know who are serious about flash recoveries have all of those tools because each has its own strengths and weaknesses and each will be able to handle some cases the other two can't.

Just be prepared that flash recovery is far more complex than you probably think it is. Even with years of doing HDD recovery professionally under my belt, I'm still pretty lost when it comes to flash. That's why I just dump the NANDs and have someone else do the hard part remotely.


Thanks data-medics. Yeah, that's probably the approach I'll have to take as well at first. The drives with "mechanical" failures will be easier to do and I can outsource the tough ones until I feel ready myself (assuming that ever happens ;>).

I agree that eventually I'll need all three tools, still, I'd like to know which one is the best starting point in terms of ease-of-use (relatively speaking of course), and coverage of various controllers/NAND and support. I have to start with one...even if I had the cash, it wouldn't make sense to buy all three from the get-go.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 9th, 2017, 17:11 
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Joined: December 4th, 2012, 1:35
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
a great place to start, with $0 down is over at rusolut website. they have put out 2 VNR books which double as manuals for the tool, but is packed with the basics of Flash. You will not find any documentation superior to this, and will need to spend quite a bit of time studying it. go through both PDF's, and read all the case studies on the site. anything that doesn't make sense, well come back here and clarify until it does.

The cases in there I would call easy and straightforward cases, which is what's needed for manuals, but there is MUCH more intricacies in flash, almost to the point where every device is different.

If you want to start right now doing customer cases, get a reader such as Soft Center and outsource the dumps. get the outsourcee(outsourcer?) to explain how they recovered.

The VNR tool is the only one that allows you to research dumps in a meaningful way, and has the backup of people that know flash extremely well, and are working full steam developing their tool as number one focus.

IMHO, if you decide to wait doing customers until you have done enough of your own test cases... you never will do customers!

but stop 1 on the Flash highway is Rusolut.com


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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 9th, 2017, 18:23 
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Location: Montreal, Canada
HaQue wrote:
a great place to start, with $0 down is over at rusolut website. they have put out 2 VNR books which double as manuals for the tool, but is packed with the basics of Flash. You will not find any documentation superior to this, and will need to spend quite a bit of time studying it. go through both PDF's, and read all the case studies on the site. anything that doesn't make sense, well come back here and clarify until it does.

The cases in there I would call easy and straightforward cases, which is what's needed for manuals, but there is MUCH more intricacies in flash, almost to the point where every device is different.

If you want to start right now doing customer cases, get a reader such as Soft Center and outsource the dumps. get the outsourcee(outsourcer?) to explain how they recovered.

The VNR tool is the only one that allows you to research dumps in a meaningful way, and has the backup of people that know flash extremely well, and are working full steam developing their tool as number one focus.

IMHO, if you decide to wait doing customers until you have done enough of your own test cases... you never will do customers!

but stop 1 on the Flash highway is Rusolut.com


Thanks HaQue. I have seen those manuals as I have been searching high and low for info. I skimmed through the first one but yes, I really need to dig deeper into it. Going back to your suggestion (dumping and outsourcing), if I were to buy the SC-FE reader and adapters only (no software), it would still cost ~1000$ whereas for ~2000$ with VNR, I could get the VNR software and a wide assortement of adapters (although only 2 have a socket). While more expensive, it would appear the VNR is better value.

One more thing, I notice that no one has mentioned PC3000 yet. They have a wide assortment of adapters and are the leader in HDD/SSD. Does anyone use this tool regularly?

Thanks again...this is really helpful. I'm willing to invest time and energy, I just want to avoid the error that HaQue details earlier in this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 10th, 2017, 4:05 
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Joined: July 12th, 2010, 4:38
Posts: 1016
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ACE has released a new update yesterday.
http://www.acelaboratory.com/news/newsi ... itemid=219

I believe that a good thing that ACE also have is their Spider Board that might avoid a good time of soldering....
Don't you guys think the same?

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 10th, 2017, 4:14 
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Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
Posts: 2354
Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
pclab wrote:
ACE has released a new update yesterday.
http://www.acelaboratory.com/news/newsi ... itemid=219

I believe that a good thing that ACE also have is their Spider Board that might avoid a good time of soldering....
Don't you guys think the same?



Well,
Update Is Good But My Chip Is Still Not Supported -> Micron 2c646456

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 10th, 2017, 11:28 
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Joined: November 9th, 2017, 13:46
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Location: Montreal, Canada
pclab wrote:
ACE has released a new update yesterday.
http://www.acelaboratory.com/news/newsi ... itemid=219

I believe that a good thing that ACE also have is their Spider Board that might avoid a good time of soldering....
Don't you guys think the same?


Hmm...the soldering is the part I look forward to :lol: Does that make me a masochist :? ?


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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 9:09 
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Everyone has his own preferences. There are just few people who really like soldering and can do it. But if you like soldering, it is cool! Anyway if you have many cases, Spider Board will save your time on soldering and you will be able to solve more cases. It's the universal adapter for monoliths, so you wouldn't need special adapter for each monolith you deal with.

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 11:22 
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pclab wrote:
Everyone has his own preferences. There are just few people who really like soldering and can do it. But if you like soldering, it is cool! Anyway if you have many cases, Spider Board will save your time on soldering and you will be able to solve more cases. It's the universal adapter for monoliths, so you wouldn't need special adapter for each monolith you deal with.


Plus ,
Now They Are Adding Pinout Finding Feature Slowly and Also It Can Act As SD Interface

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 17th, 2017, 12:38 
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Joined: November 9th, 2017, 13:46
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Location: Montreal, Canada
Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
pclab wrote:
Everyone has his own preferences. There are just few people who really like soldering and can do it. But if you like soldering, it is cool! Anyway if you have many cases, Spider Board will save your time on soldering and you will be able to solve more cases. It's the universal adapter for monoliths, so you wouldn't need special adapter for each monolith you deal with.


Plus ,
Now They Are Adding Pinout Finding Feature Slowly and Also It Can Act As SD Interface


@pclab @Amarbir Thanks for the feedback.


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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 20th, 2017, 13:45 
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Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
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Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
BTW Minho ,
No One Says PC 3000 Flash is a Lousy Tool .Few Guys Do Brilliant Work With PC 3000 Flash Also Like Greydkang Etc .But Having All The Tools Gives You Nuclear Bomb Powers in NAND Flash Lol :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Newbies VS Pros
PostPosted: November 20th, 2017, 22:29 
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Joined: November 9th, 2017, 13:46
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Location: Montreal, Canada
Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
BTW Minho ,
No One Says PC 3000 Flash is a Lousy Tool .Few Guys Do Brilliant Work With PC 3000 Flash Also Like Greydkang Etc .But Having All The Tools Gives You Nuclear Bomb Powers in NAND Flash Lol :mrgreen:


Thanks Amarbir, I hope no one thought that I was implying one tool was worse than another. Yeah, I'd love to have all three but even if I could afford it (I can't :) ), it wouldn't make sense to have so many tools when I have so much to learn. Baby steps...baby steps.

For the record, I will be buying the SC Reader soon to start playing around with reading IC's off of known-good USB drives. I'll probably only get extraction software in the new year. That should give me some time to figure out which extraction tool to start with.


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