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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 21st, 2019, 19:49 
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ddrecovery wrote:
maximus wrote:
Someone pointed something out about my pricing, and I am thinking about a bit of a change. Currently I am charging $25USD for the short term 60 day license, and $150USD for the extended long term (basically lifetime) license. That is a ratio of 6:1. I am thinking of going with a 10:1 or 20:1. Maybe $20 for the short term and $200 for the long term, or even $15 for the short term and $300 for the long term. The idea is that someone that is doing some data recovery on a semi regular basis will be willing to pay for the long term license (and not worry about always needing internet access). But for someone that wants just a one time or occasional use, or wants to test it before committing to the long term version cost, the price is more affordable. I would make more from those that want to use it regularly for data recovery, and also get more of those that either want to test it or only use it for an occasional recovery. So what do you think, 10:1 or 20:1? I am thinking I like the 20:1, go big or go home :)

The issue might be that this is a data recovery forum full of professionals, and you are asking advice on whether you should increase the cost of the product to data recovery professionals.......

Yes, but it is full of professionals that have not yet bought my software, mostly because they already have much more expensive tools. Maybe I am being to open. Maybe I am giving warning that the price is about to go up for anyone that is thinking about the long term version, but has not bought it yet. Maybe I am just going to do what I feel like no matter what the response. But in any case, asking should not hurt any. Maybe there could be one response, either public or private, that could help make me see something that I am missing.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 21st, 2019, 19:56 
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maximus wrote:
Maybe I am just going to do what I feel like no matter what the response.

And so you should, its your product.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 21st, 2019, 20:14 
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I see on your user comments page:

"I'M VERY SATISFIED! Your FREE VERSION outperformed ALL cloning software that I know"

As a side note, he also states it outperformed DiskPatch which TBH isn't too hard as it relies on BIOS extened int13 calls. So that's going through and dependent on more layers/black boxes. Anyway, I made DiskPatch a few decades ago and there's also success stories to tell about that tool. But my point is people paid for the disk clone option, I disabled that in the free version. There was a scan option that they could try to see if it could read the source disk. IOW, this HDDSuperClone FREE user could have been a paying customer.

What I have noticed is that tech shops and people who cloned disks that were not end users / home users actually were paying for a tech license. And in that light I don't fancy the short term / long term thing. As an end user I have this intuitive 'no' when it comes to very limited time licenses even if I intend to use something only once. What if I need it a second time just too late for my license to work .. For a while I did had a mechanism in place where it was easier to use tech license on multiple PCs where the end user version locked itself to a hard disk. Can't exactly remember how I did that though. But I dropped that at some point and still sold tech licenses.

Anyway, just sharing this FWIW.


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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 21st, 2019, 20:54 
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Just had a silly comment on my don't use Spinrite page (from a believer) which prompted me to put down a link to HDDSuperClone.

If you're struggling to get data of a disk that's ill behaving due to bad sectors, instead use something like HDDSuperClone (http://www.sdcomputingservice.com/hddsuperclone). It is safer (read-only) and more effective due to lower hardware access.


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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 21st, 2019, 21:42 
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maximus wrote:
maximus wrote:
I am considering stopping my work on HDDSuperClone, and just making it open source with limited or no further support. It is taking up way to much of my free time to maintain and update it, plus the expected support. And only a small number have purchased the pro version. The small amount of extra income I have gained from it is not worth the time and effort. This is not set in stone yet, but I am really seriously thinking about this.

After some thought, I will be keeping on with my work, but I may change how I handle support, and maybe not as many updates/fixes as quick. So if someone has an issue at a time where I don't have the time, then I may say I don't have the time, and that I don't know when I will get to it.

So to go back on this a little bit, if I wanted to dump/sell hddsuperclone, what would someone be willing to pay for the source code? If I were to sell it, it would be as-is. Once sold I would not want to support it in any way. My man-o-pause mid-life-crises voice in the back of my head is asking. Not saying I will do this, but need to ask.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2019, 10:26 
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maximus wrote:
maximus wrote:
maximus wrote:
I am considering stopping my work on HDDSuperClone, and just making it open source with limited or no further support. It is taking up way to much of my free time to maintain and update it, plus the expected support. And only a small number have purchased the pro version. The small amount of extra income I have gained from it is not worth the time and effort. This is not set in stone yet, but I am really seriously thinking about this.

After some thought, I will be keeping on with my work, but I may change how I handle support, and maybe not as many updates/fixes as quick. So if someone has an issue at a time where I don't have the time, then I may say I don't have the time, and that I don't know when I will get to it.

So to go back on this a little bit, if I wanted to dump/sell hddsuperclone, what would someone be willing to pay for the source code? If I were to sell it, it would be as-is. Once sold I would not want to support it in any way. My man-o-pause mid-life-crises voice in the back of my head is asking. Not saying I will do this, but need to ask.

I seem to remember someone already offered to buy this from you. He will give you a target price.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2019, 17:32 
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ddrecovery wrote:
maximus wrote:
maximus wrote:
maximus wrote:
I am considering stopping my work on HDDSuperClone, and just making it open source with limited or no further support. It is taking up way to much of my free time to maintain and update it, plus the expected support. And only a small number have purchased the pro version. The small amount of extra income I have gained from it is not worth the time and effort. This is not set in stone yet, but I am really seriously thinking about this.

After some thought, I will be keeping on with my work, but I may change how I handle support, and maybe not as many updates/fixes as quick. So if someone has an issue at a time where I don't have the time, then I may say I don't have the time, and that I don't know when I will get to it.

So to go back on this a little bit, if I wanted to dump/sell hddsuperclone, what would someone be willing to pay for the source code? If I were to sell it, it would be as-is. Once sold I would not want to support it in any way. My man-o-pause mid-life-crises voice in the back of my head is asking. Not saying I will do this, but need to ask.

I seem to remember someone already offered to buy this from you. He will give you a target price.

I know I am flip-flopping like a crazy woman that can’t make up her mind (hope that doesn’t offend anyone, but it is kind if scaring me as I like to consider myself a sane man, and my brain does not seem to be cooperating with me lately). But IF I were to sell it, I think there would be two scenarios.

1) Someone offered me a stupid amount of money, way more than I thought it was worth. In that case, I would say it is all yours, without caring what you do with it. I would offer some initial support if needed to make sure the transition went as smooth as possible, but after that, I would wash my hands of it. Maybe DeepSpar would like to buy it to kill it as competition, but that would cost, and probably never happen.

2) Someone wanted to buy it for a reasonable price, maybe something along the lines of what I have made from it in a year, and keep it going and maintain it for their own sales and profit. They would need to be familiar with C programming, and ambitious enough to follow up on potential bugs and fix them, and hopefully even come up with improvements and new functions. For awhile I would offer limited support for the code as far as where and what to look for the bug fixes, but no actual coding.

This is just a what-if thing right now. Part of me wants to just get rid of it so I don’t have to deal with it and spend time on it. But another part of me would have trouble letting go, and thinks that I can figure out how to deal with the time being spent on it, and make adjustments. After all the time I have already spent on it, I would hate to see it wither away and die. I kind of like to think if it as "my baby" (okay, maybe not the best way to put it, but it is the best my brain can come up with right now).

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2019, 17:43 
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Okay Loretta. We see where you are coming from now.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2019, 18:24 
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ddrecovery wrote:
Okay Loretta. We see where you are coming from now.

LOL :lol:
I like to think I am a very logical person. So I am trying to analyze myself to see what is wrong with me. And there is one thing that is coming up that maybe is subconsciously having an affect on me, even though I really don't see it as a big deal. I am about to turn 50. I was fine with 40, but maybe my brain is now saying "hey, you are about to become f***ing old, and I am going to make you think about it even when you don't think you are".

Maybe that is TMI, but maybe being open about it will help me fix myself (or just make me look like that much more of an idiot) :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2019, 19:23 
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Arch Stanton wrote:
I see on your user comments page:

"I'M VERY SATISFIED! Your FREE VERSION outperformed ALL cloning software that I know"

As a side note, he also states it outperformed DiskPatch which TBH isn't too hard as it relies on BIOS extened int13 calls. So that's going through and dependent on more layers/black boxes. Anyway, I made DiskPatch a few decades ago and there's also success stories to tell about that tool. But my point is people paid for the disk clone option, I disabled that in the free version. There was a scan option that they could try to see if it could read the source disk. IOW, this HDDSuperClone FREE user could have been a paying customer.

What I have noticed is that tech shops and people who cloned disks that were not end users / home users actually were paying for a tech license. And in that light I don't fancy the short term / long term thing. As an end user I have this intuitive 'no' when it comes to very limited time licenses even if I intend to use something only once. What if I need it a second time just too late for my license to work .. For a while I did had a mechanism in place where it was easier to use tech license on multiple PCs where the end user version locked itself to a hard disk. Can't exactly remember how I did that though. But I dropped that at some point and still sold tech licenses.

Anyway, just sharing this FWIW.


Thank you, that was very informative. I want to reply to all of it, but that would be too much.

As for the free version being a paid customer, the free version is meant to be better than ddrescue so it advertises itself to get people aware (you just said you put a link on one of your pages, so that has worked, otherwise it would have been to ddrescue). For hard drive recovery, the best software only tool was ddrescue, and the next step up was an expensive hardware imager. HDDSuperClone is meant to fill the gap, but it needed to start getting mentioned, that is why I did the free version the way it is. The pro version is meant to be a competitor for the hard drive imagers, capable of things no free software can do, at a fraction of the cost.

As for the intuitive “no” to the limited time license, as long as the user knows it will expire, but then can just buy another limited time license, why would that be a “no”? If they hit the limit right when they need it, they can either buy another short term license, or own up and by the full license to make sure that doesn’t happen again. I have sold short term licesnes, so it’s not like it doesn’t sell.

Part of the reason I offer the cheaper short term license is because the pro version features can be somewhat complicated to use. I have someone that doesn’t even want the pro version for free because they can’t understand how to use it. So a cheap trial makes sense. If you can’t figure it out with the short trial, then you would not buy the long term license. It is a cheap way to try it, and if you like it you will buy up.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 22nd, 2019, 19:53 
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To get back to reality (if even for a short time), is there anyone that would be interested in a short term trial to test out the new Direct USB mode? I want to put it to the test.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 25th, 2019, 8:21 
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New version of HDDSuperClone released:

version 2.2.0 20190824
* Fixed a bug with SCSI write
* Fixed a bug with Direct USB inquiry
* Other fixes for SCSI passthrough for inquiry and read capacity

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 29th, 2019, 20:08 
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So now that I have released the Direct USB mode, there is not much else I am planning on adding to HDDSuperClone. So maybe now it is time for some marketing, and a stab at DeepSpar DDI4. So I am putting the following on the website for the Pro version. The content on the website may change in the future, but this initial post should be good for the forum.

The Pro version of HDDSuperClone has many abilities of a hardware imager, such as DeepSpar DDI4. Let’s take a look at it can do.

Just a reminder, HDDSuperClone is a Linux only tool, there is not any Windows version, nor will there ever be.

Hardware imagers can work with unstable SATA (and PATA) drives by being able to perform soft/hard resets on drives using timeouts. HDDSuperClone Pro can also do this using only the computer hardware itself.

Hardware imagers can also perform power cycles on the drive when it becomes unresponsive. HDDSuperClone Pro can also do this, although you need to follow the instructions on the website for what relay to purchase and how to wire it.

Hardware imagers can image by head on supported drives. This is done by using vendor specific commands to map the data to the heads. But if the drive is not supported, the hardware imager cannot map the heads. HDDSuperClone takes a different approach. It does not map heads directly, but instead uses a self learning head skipping algorithm to skip around the bad head and bad areas of the drive. This has proven to be very effective at getting data from the good heads/areas first, and without the need of any special commands, so it is capable of working on any drive. This ability is actually part of the free version, the Pro version only lets this be accelerated.

Some hardware imagers have the ability to work with USB drives (such as the USB Add-on for DeepSpar), with read timeouts and power cycles, similar to the features when working with SATA drives. The new Pro feature Direct USB mode also allows this (again, for power cycles you need to purchase the proper relay, and wire it according to the website instructions).

A good hardware imager will also have a way to perform data extraction, without having to clone/image the entire drive. HDDSuperClone can also do this with the Virtual Driver mode. This presents the live recovery as a virtual disk to the Linux system. A recovery tool such as R-Studio can then read from the virtual disk, which invokes reading through HDDSuperClone, to access the filesystem and target and recover files and folders.

The really good hardware imagers also perform firmware repairs. That is something that HDDSuperClone cannot do. HDDSuperTool can perform the WD slow fix on some drives, but that is it. If you are looking for firmware fixes, then you would need to look at other firmware repair tools. HDDSuperClone is for cloning/imaging, not fixing.

So as you can see, HDDSuperClone Pro is capable of many of the features of a hardware imager. But it is only a fraction of the cost. I do have to admit that it may be a bit more complicated in some ways, but if you read the user manual carefully, and you are technically capable of understanding how to use a hardware imager properly, you should be able to make it perform just like a hardware imager in the ways described.

HDDSuperClone Pro is basically a poor man’s DeepSpar DDI4. There may be some advantages to the DeepSpar, but they would come at a big price for what they are. HDDSuperClone Pro can do many of the things that the hardware imagers claim a “software only tool” can’t do.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: August 31st, 2019, 8:46 
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maximus wrote:
So now that I have released the Direct USB mode, there is not much else I am planning on adding to HDDSuperClone. So maybe now it is time for some marketing, and a stab at DeepSpar DDI4. So I am putting the following on the website for the Pro version. The content on the website may change in the future, but this initial post should be good for the forum.

The Pro version of HDDSuperClone has many abilities of a hardware imager, such as DeepSpar DDI4. Let’s take a look at it can do.

Just a reminder, HDDSuperClone is a Linux only tool, there is not any Windows version, nor will there ever be.

Hardware imagers can work with unstable SATA (and PATA) drives by being able to perform soft/hard resets on drives using timeouts. HDDSuperClone Pro can also do this using only the computer hardware itself.

Hardware imagers can also perform power cycles on the drive when it becomes unresponsive. HDDSuperClone Pro can also do this, although you need to follow the instructions on the website for what relay to purchase and how to wire it.

Hardware imagers can image by head on supported drives. This is done by using vendor specific commands to map the data to the heads. But if the drive is not supported, the hardware imager cannot map the heads. HDDSuperClone takes a different approach. It does not map heads directly, but instead uses a self learning head skipping algorithm to skip around the bad head and bad areas of the drive. This has proven to be very effective at getting data from the good heads/areas first, and without the need of any special commands, so it is capable of working on any drive. This ability is actually part of the free version, the Pro version only lets this be accelerated.

Some hardware imagers have the ability to work with USB drives (such as the USB Add-on for DeepSpar), with read timeouts and power cycles, similar to the features when working with SATA drives. The new Pro feature Direct USB mode also allows this (again, for power cycles you need to purchase the proper relay, and wire it according to the website instructions).

A good hardware imager will also have a way to perform data extraction, without having to clone/image the entire drive. HDDSuperClone can also do this with the Virtual Driver mode. This presents the live recovery as a virtual disk to the Linux system. A recovery tool such as R-Studio can then read from the virtual disk, which invokes reading through HDDSuperClone, to access the filesystem and target and recover files and folders.

The really good hardware imagers also perform firmware repairs. That is something that HDDSuperClone cannot do. HDDSuperTool can perform the WD slow fix on some drives, but that is it. If you are looking for firmware fixes, then you would need to look at other firmware repair tools. HDDSuperClone is for cloning/imaging, not fixing.

So as you can see, HDDSuperClone Pro is capable of many of the features of a hardware imager. But it is only a fraction of the cost. I do have to admit that it may be a bit more complicated in some ways, but if you read the user manual carefully, and you are technically capable of understanding how to use a hardware imager properly, you should be able to make it perform just like a hardware imager in the ways described.

HDDSuperClone Pro is basically a poor man’s DeepSpar DDI4. There may be some advantages to the DeepSpar, but they would come at a big price for what they are. HDDSuperClone Pro can do many of the things that the hardware imagers claim a “software only tool” can’t do.

\
My 2 cents ..

Honest. but a tad too much on what it CAN'T do. So, IMO you'd describe what it CAN and intends to do and maybe get into that it is ideal for for example repair techs that want to offer up to a certain level of data recovery. So, I am a subscriber to some tech forums as well and many have no idea about hardware imagers. So when you start comparing mainly against those they don't have a clue what you're talking about. And rather than mainly comparing to them and their prices, show what you offer for your price.

Apart from hard core data recovery geeks, I think there's this grey area between PC repair and specialized data recovery. Educate the lot in this grey area and outline how cloning is standard practice in data recovery.

Give some examples of cases where it can be useful in recovering data so that potential buyer can see what to expect. I mean in my DiskPatch days we got lucky plenty of times with scenarios where Windows explorer would hang trying to access a drive, while it worked fine with the clone. I am sure you have similar experiences and examples. Or where pretty good Windows based data recovery software would lock up hang while scanning a drive and worked fine once cloned.

And maybe after that compare to hardware cloners/imagers etc..


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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: September 1st, 2019, 20:16 
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Quote:
Honest. but a tad too much on what it CAN'T do. So, IMO you'd describe what it CAN and intends to do and maybe get into that it is ideal for for example repair techs that want to offer up to a certain level of data recovery.

Yeah, I was thinking about the can't stuff after I wrote that. I have updated the website with much more of a can do approach version of that. I will have to work on examples and scenarios to help people understand it, which has kind of been in my bucket list for awhile. All of that takes time, which I only have so much of, so this will be a work in progress.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: September 11th, 2019, 12:11 
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I've had some success with HDDSuperClone and wouldn't want to see you give up on it. I having been using the free version but will be trying the short-term licence for my next data recovery job. I have used DDI4 in the past and really liked it but it is very expensive if data recovery isn't your core business. If the pro version can do quite a bit of what DDI4 does it's got to be worth a go..


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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: September 14th, 2019, 11:33 
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Just paid for a 60 day subscription for the PRO version and am testing it out. Seems a great product for what is not very much money. There's nothing else like it on the market at this price..


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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: September 14th, 2019, 19:20 
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alfarom wrote:
Just paid for a 60 day subscription for the PRO version and am testing it out. Seems a great product for what is not very much money. There's nothing else like it on the market at this price..

Please do test, and report any findings. One thing to remember is that many drives that are stable and only have some bad sectors can be recovered by the free version just as good as the pro version. The purpose of the pro version is for unstable drives, and also for use of the timeouts for those who know how to use them to speed up a recovery. And also the virtual drive for data extraction.

As far as I know, there is no other software only tool that has the main pro functions. All others require purchasing hardware (aka hardware imager). Obviously you need to purchase the relay if you need power cycles, but I am not counting that. Maybe someone in China has something, but nothing I know of in the English speaking world.

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 Post subject: Re: HDDSuperClone - A new Linux hard drive cloning/imaging t
PostPosted: September 15th, 2019, 10:56 
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I'm going to get the Relay. It looks easy to setup and use..


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