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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 16th, 2021, 14:50 
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You only need to reset the skip size before starting phase 3, meaning AFTER phase 2. And if you don't change/update any clone settings at all, it should reset on its own, from settings in the log you posted (maybe not in this case since you will be changing clone settings before it actually starts phase 3). The only reason I said to change it in the first place is because of a bug that would change an internal setting when updating the clone settings. That bug will be fixed in the next release, so I never again have to tell someone to reset the skip size for this reason :)

Yes, I know it is confusing :?

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 16th, 2021, 15:10 
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maximus wrote:
You only need to reset the skip size before starting phase 3, meaning AFTER phase 2. And if you don't change/update any clone settings at all, it should reset on its own, from settings in the log you posted (maybe not in this case since you will be changing clone settings before it actually starts phase 3). The only reason I said to change it in the first place is because of a bug that would change an internal setting when updating the clone settings. That bug will be fixed in the next release, so I never again have to tell someone to reset the skip size for this reason :)

Yes, I know it is confusing :?


So if I get this correctly,
Whenever I clone something using hddsc again and set an initial skip size of 16384, Should I just leave the newly increased skip size
(in this case: 499529) alone when I decide to temporarily stop the process in the middle of any Phase?, lets say Phase 1?


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 16th, 2021, 15:51 
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Process just finished, here's the new log
Attachment:
Feb16-image.log [100.96 KiB]
Downloaded 71 times


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 16th, 2021, 15:54 
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Correct. Unless you end up with a skip reset and need to assess the settings, you would normally let the self learning head skipping algorithm adjust the skip size in phases 1-2, after you set it initially. It will dynamically adjust it during the recovery. When it gets to phase 3, the skip size is supposed to go back to what you set initially.

If everything is just let to run without any setting changes, this would be automatic with no user input needed. The bug I found looses the initial skip size if the clone settings are changed/updated in the middle of phase 1-2, and sets it to whatever the current skip size is when saving the settings, which could be a very high skip size as in your case. In that case phase 3 would end up with that high skip size instead of the one set initially. So yes, don't change the skip size during phase 1-2, unless there is good reason.

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 16th, 2021, 19:35 
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Phase 2 didn't get as much data as I figured it would, but no matter, now that it is done, 99.999% of any further reads are in the bad head. And not to cause a panic, but there are signs that the drive is degrading. It isn't definitive, but there are a greater number of higher read times from the phase 2 pass, and actually a spot in the middle where there were more read failures in phase 2 then in phase 1.

So now it is time to see if there is any way to speed up the read speed or not. And honestly, from what I can see, if you don't get anywhere with turning up the cluster size, you are in for a long recovery to get to 99%, assuming the drive survives that long. I honestly don't know what settings to use. I would try a phase 3 pass, and if it is just reading slow without any skipping, try turning up the Rate Skip. It looks like the default setting may be good, but if not, then say it is averaging 75KBs, you would turn up the rate skip to something like 75-100. The idea is to try to skip the slowest areas and try to find areas that read better. But you may not find many, if any, areas that read better. If you thought phase 2 was slow, it only gets worse from here. You may also wish to adjust the skip size (turn it up) to skip ahead more in an attempt to find those elusive spots that read better. Watch the speed, skip count, and the very slow current position climb, along with the very slow total finished percent climb. Also watch the current/recent read time, as a persistent increase is an indication that it is degrading.

You could do multiple phase 3 passes. For the first pass you could turn the skip size way up to something like 100MB (200000) for more aggressive skipping, and then try 10MB (20000) for the next pass. That is assuming you have the patience to go through with the rest of the recovery.

How much important data is on the drive that you would like to recover? 20GB? 200GB? If it is a low enough percentage, it may be worth looking into targeting only the needed data, but that won’t be free.

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 16th, 2021, 22:54 
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Quote:
For the first pass you could turn the skip size way up to something like 100MB (200000) for more aggressive skipping, and then try 10MB (20000) for the next pass. That is assuming you have the patience to go through with the rest of the recovery.

Wait what's 200000?, is the measurement for skip size in KB or MBs?

Quote:
How much important data is on the drive that you would like to recover? 20GB? 200GB? If it is a low enough percentage, it may be worth looking into targeting only the needed data, but that won’t be free.

I'm not quite sure exactly, but I think a lot of my "semi" important files are in the desktop folder. Just academic stuff and some music creations I made,
all these stuff is interesting, reason why I kinda like DIY and Im still a student so I think hddsc will suffice for now :D


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 16th, 2021, 23:27 
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I've come across this command on Linux, will this also work with hddsc? Because I saw someone used these commands on ddrescue


"echo value /sys/block/device-name/device/timeout"
from https://access.redhat.com/documentation ... ng-devices

"smartctl -l scterc,50,50 /dev/sda"
from https://superuser.com/questions/905811/ ... ad-sectors


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 16th, 2021, 23:44 
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Settings:
I tried changing the cluster size to 256 then 512 and I noticed the read times are getting longer.
Phase 3 checked,
skip threshold=500ms,
Skip rate = 50,
Skip size = 16384
Current rate = 15-50 KB/s


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 17th, 2021, 18:05 
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Quote:
Wait what's 200000?, is the measurement for skip size in KB or MBs?
All size, position, and skip settings are in LBA (sectors). So with the standard sector size of 512 bytes, 200000 would be 200000*512, or 102,400,000 bytes. That is approximately 100MB.

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 17th, 2021, 18:12 
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Quote:
'm not quite sure exactly, but I think a lot of my "semi" important files are in the desktop folder. Just academic stuff and some music creations I made,
all these stuff is interesting, reason why I kinda like DIY and Im still a student so I think hddsc will suffice for now
If you decide you do want to target files, you would need the pro version of hddsuperclone, and a paid version of DMDE. A 60 day license for hddsuperclone is $20 USD, and I think the cheap version of DMDE is $20. The purchase of hddsuperlcone temp license comes with a $15 discount for DMDE, so then it would only be $5. $25 total. But that is up to you, and before you think about it, look at the videos for how to use hddsuperclone with DMDE. It requires some work, not just click and go.

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 17th, 2021, 18:18 
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DracoJ wrote:
I've come across this command on Linux, will this also work with hddsc? Because I saw someone used these commands on ddrescue


"echo value /sys/block/device-name/device/timeout"
from https://access.redhat.com/documentation ... ng-devices

"smartctl -l scterc,50,50 /dev/sda"
from https://superuser.com/questions/905811/ ... ad-sectors

Unfortunately, timeout settings are not going to help in your case. Even the pro version of hddsuperclone would not help, as timed resets would only make things worse by timing out instead of reading. It is hard to explain, but the condition of your drive is not one that timed resets would help.

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 17th, 2021, 18:22 
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DracoJ wrote:
Settings:
I tried changing the cluster size to 256 then 512 and I noticed the read times are getting longer.
Phase 3 checked,
skip threshold=500ms,
Skip rate = 50,
Skip size = 16384
Current rate = 15-50 KB/s

Bummer the cluster size did not help, but that was a long shot anyway. I think your option now is to deal with a very long recovery, unless you wish to go the route of targeting data.

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 18th, 2021, 10:13 
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Alright, I have a couple of questions before I clone this drive to death, but please pardon me if they sound amateur-ish

Quote:
I would like to add that after the initial phase 1 and 2 are completed, it is possible to utilize those phases again with modified settings, to dig into the bad. But you would need to adjust both the skip size and the max skip size to the desired values, otherwise the program could stop due to a skip reset.
can retrying Phase 1 and 2 still be possible? I haven't tried reverse yet too



hmmm also, Will my chances of recovery right now be greater if I hadn't messed up the skip size during Phase 1-2?


Quote:
Bummer the cluster size did not help, but that was a long shot anyway.
Woah, how risky was increasing the cluster size by a factor of x2, x4 or even x8 of "128" default?

So if all attempts have been made, Can this now be only fixed by a head swap in a professional setting?


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 18th, 2021, 19:57 
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Quote:
can retrying Phase 1 and 2 still be possible? I haven't tried reverse yet too
Yes, but you would need to change the settings. Those phases are designed for the head skipping algorithm, but can be utilized in other ways, if you know what settings to use. Most important is to make sure the max skip size is no larger than 16 times the skip size, or you can get skip resets. Also, phase 2 is a reverse pass.

Quote:
hmmm also, Will my chances of recovery right now be greater if I hadn't messed up the skip size during Phase 1-2?
Not really, I think you only added to the completion time of the phases.

Quote:
Woah, how risky was increasing the cluster size by a factor of x2, x4 or even x8 of "128" default?
Not risky at all, just a matter of logistics. There are reasons to not go big on the skip size in phases 1-2, mostly it can skip larger chunks of good data at the edge of the good/bad head.

Quote:
So if all attempts have been made, Can this now be only fixed by a head swap in a professional setting?
Most likely.

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 19th, 2021, 2:17 
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I see....
Quote:
Yes, but you would need to change the settings. Those phases are designed for the head skipping algorithm, but can be utilized in other ways, if you know what settings to use.

What concepts shall I be reading or learning in the manual for this?


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 20th, 2021, 10:01 
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Quote:
What concepts shall I be reading or learning in the manual for this?
It isn't as easy as just reading something in the manual. You have to be able to understand what is happening, and why you want to change settings to make it work a certain way. If you want to know what to read in the manual, you need to read the following sections, and then try to understand them, which can be difficult without some experience.
Theory of Operation
Usage
Understanding the Display
Skip Resets
Progress Log Structure

If you wanted to let HDDSuperClone do its thing, the next step would be a default phase 3 pass, maybe tweaking the rate skip as you watch how it reacting. The goal is to try to get it to skip in the slowest spots to try to get to any faster reading areas. The beginning of the drive is slowest, but from what I can see there are no "fast" spots. My prediction is it will be slow going all the way. There may be some spots that are not as slow as others. If you want to skip the slow beginning part, set the current position to about 14000000 (7GB). You can try changing the current position to different spots to see if there are areas further in that are better (such as 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 of the total size to jump to those respective locations). Normally I don't recommend jumping around like that, but it can be helpful to see if you can find a faster reading spot. You just have to remember to come back for the large chunks of data you are jumping over.

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 20th, 2021, 21:43 
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If there's one thing that seems constant, it is the current rate that is 56 kB/s most of the time at the 7.96GB (15,540,000+) position.
It's like it's throttled to a fixed rate.

btw does this rule also apply to Phase3 & 4?
Quote:
Most important is to make sure the max skip size is no larger than 16 times the skip size, or you can get skip resets.


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 20th, 2021, 22:06 
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Quote:
If there's one thing that seems constant, it is the current rate that is 56 kB/s most of the time at the 7.96GB (15,540,000+) position.
It's like it's throttled to a fixed rate.
That is about what I expected from the log.

DracoJ wrote:
btw does this rule also apply to Phase3 & 4?
Quote:
Most important is to make sure the max skip size is no larger than 16 times the skip size, or you can get skip resets.
That rule is only for using phase 1-2 with highly altered settings for custom use. Phase 3 is fixed skipping, phase 4 is no skipping.

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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 20th, 2021, 22:16 
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Update:
The "Finished" percentage went from 48.697521% to 49.42046...% and then turned 48.780...% after switching Input Offset/Current Position, what caused the rescued data to decrease?

This is probably my last question, sorry for asking too much.
but are there recovery programs out there on Windows that can scan the drive/image file and somehow dictate what sector is the "Desktop" folder located in the drive? So that when I return to hddsc, I'll know what sectors to target cloning instead of cloning the whole drive :(


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 Post subject: Re: Samsung and HDDSuperClone concern
PostPosted: February 20th, 2021, 22:36 
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Quote:
The "Finished" percentage went from 48.697521% to 49.42046...% and then turned 48.780...% after switching Input Offset/Current Position, what caused the rescued data to decrease?
Not sure, but it is just a calculated value, it does not change what was recovered.

Quote:
This is probably my last question, sorry for asking too much.
but are there recovery programs out there on Windows that can scan the drive/image file and somehow dictate what sector is the "Desktop" folder located in the drive? So that when I return to hddsc, I'll know what sectors to target cloning instead of cloning the whole drive
No Windows programs to help. I again refer you to the pro version of HDDSuperClone used with DMDE to target data. If you really want a way to possibly do it for free, look into using ddrutility with ddrescue, but you would be completely on your own with no support from anyone, including me.

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