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 Post subject: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: November 17th, 2016, 11:54 
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Dear colleagues, we present you our latest product:

Platter Stand

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HddSurgeryTM Platter Stand Tool is designed to enable the data recovery specialist to safely store and inspect the platters from 3.5'' drives, while they are removed from the hard drive assembly. This tool represents our company's further effort to enhance every aspect of the job a data recovery expert performs on a daily basis.

The tool comes in a form of a modular multi-part platter-carrying subassemblies, mounted on a single base and connected among themselves using precisely machined joints. Every part is made of stainless steel, making the assembly suitable to store the platters without compromising the security of their delicate ferromagnetic coated layers.

For additional info, take a look at PDF Manual and Video Guide on our website.

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: November 17th, 2016, 14:47 
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I think the question on everyone's mind looking at this tool is: What about platter alignment?

I know that modern drives write servo on each platter surface, but it's my experience that they are still extremely sensitive to any loss of alignment. I'd personally never remove multi-platter stacks like this, even if I thought it had a chance to work. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to do a better inspection of platter surfaces before spending $300 on a rare donor, but I can't see this as a viable option either.

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: November 17th, 2016, 15:49 
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data-medics wrote:
I think the question on everyone's mind looking at this tool is: What about platter alignment?

I know that modern drives write servo on each platter surface, but it's my experience that they are still extremely sensitive to any loss of alignment.

I confess my ignorance. Why should there be any alignment issue with an embedded servo?

AISI, if the relative rotational position (disc-to-disc skew) is disturbed, then the platter merely needs to rotate a little more in order to compensate for the difference.

Is this "alignment" referring to eccentricity? If the platter is a little off-centre, then perhaps its "wobble" could fall outside the range of the servo.

BTW, I do understand that there is an alignment issue -- I just don't understand why.

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: November 17th, 2016, 18:20 
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I agree fully that it shouldn't matter. But, for whatever reason if you rotate a platter even a little they tend to stop working. Maybe it's caused by something else, but I still never remove platters one at a time.

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: November 18th, 2016, 11:36 
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The Platter Stand is a support tool, developed after numerous request from our clients. To use it, a certain level of experience and knowledge is needed. If you have ever cleaned the platters of the drive struck by the floods, unskilled/sloppy data recovery technician or client, this tool would be very useful in terms of:

1. Having an easy approach to the platters

2. Avoiding problems with other platters while inspecting one

3. Easily sinking the platter into the cleaning liquid etc. etc.

We have made a simple and safe holder for the platters. It is up to data recovery engineer how to manage the platters and how many of them. We were asked by experienced data recovery engineers to develop such tool and so far we receive nothing but positive impressions.

We encourage the users to continue ‘’playing’’ :)


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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: November 20th, 2016, 4:06 
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Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
data-medics wrote:
I agree fully that it shouldn't matter. But, for whatever reason if you rotate a platter even a little they tend to stop working. Maybe it's caused by something else, but I still never remove platters one at a time.


Well,
I am with you on this one but this is what nikola is saying .BTW nikola i do not use any of your tools til today ,Might be some day i will once we in india start getting good payment for DR work in respected to americans and european DR firms .Anyway i will share my viewpoit cos i said the same to you in a facebok or youtube post

You Said : The Platter Stand is a support tool, developed after numerous request from our clients.
Reply : Well no doubt about that

You Sad :To use it, a certain level of experience and knowledge is needed. If you have ever cleaned the platters of the drive struck by the floods, unskilled/sloppy data recovery technician or client, this tool would be very useful in terms of:
Reply : Well unfortunately how many of those DR firms/People you know can remove a multiplatter Hard drive platters and fix them back .I do not think its easy without a proper machine or some tools which i a sure 99.9 skilled and experienced DR guys have not got .The Rest 0.1% are companies like seagate data recovery "BTW i did see a platter stand on one one thier video and it was for single platter " .

You Said :1. Having an easy approach to the platters
Reply : True Its a Great Tool For Single Platters .But if the tech cannot reassemble multiplatter platter stack back taking ,inspecting ,cleaning multiplatter stack does not make sense

You Said :2. Avoiding problems with other platters while inspecting one
Reply : Well that is true ,even for single platler i would say .

You Said :3. Easily sinking the platter into the cleaning liquid etc. etc.
Reply : Totally Useless Idea in my opinion ,You will need a big dia utensil/cleaner and it will need to be deep ,Were as single platter and muti platter stacks can be cleaned [ Properly ] With a 2 Inch Deep Cleaner/Utensil Just at the size of the hdd 3.5" or 2.5" when hdd it vertical standing " .Plus no issue wth mutiplatter adjustment .For inspection well for single platter there are simpler ways to do it and for multiplatter makes zero sense if we cannot reassemble to make it work again .

You Said :We have made a simple and safe holder for the platters. It is up to data recovery engineer how to manage the platters and how many of them. We were asked by experienced data recovery engineers to develop such tool and so far we receive nothing but positive impressions.
Reply :Well yes you have made it simple and safe .Well 99.9% of us cannot manage multiplatter alignments .

PS : my opinions are based on the fact of my knowledge and daily working with physical work in my lab .If someone wants to pour in better views of multiplatter alignment i would be grateful .Cheers nikola keep making new tools

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: November 20th, 2016, 10:01 
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Joined: December 8th, 2010, 11:37
Posts: 684
Location: Ottawa, Canada
I have nothing to add regarding the tool; I just want to congratulate Amarbir for his greatly improved English and typing. Well done, Amarbir!

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: November 20th, 2016, 16:03 
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Joined: August 15th, 2006, 3:01
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Location: CDRLabs @ Chandigarh [ India ]
LarrySabo wrote:
I have nothing to add regarding the tool; I just want to congratulate Amarbir for his greatly improved English and typing. Well done, Amarbir!


Mr Larry ,
English is My third language ,but i try my best ,still i see a lot of room for improvement . :( .I did make a small video as i was excited with flash recovery today ,Its on my facebook account ,It was a live feed

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: December 25th, 2016, 16:41 
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Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 704
Location: Belgrade
Amarbir[CDR-Labs] wrote:
data-medics wrote:
I agree fully that it shouldn't matter. But, for whatever reason if you rotate a platter even a little they tend to stop working. Maybe it's caused by something else, but I still never remove platters one at a time.


Well,
I am with you on this one but this is what nikola is saying .BTW nikola i do not use any of your tools til today ,Might be some day i will once we in india start getting good payment for DR work in respected to americans and european DR firms .Anyway i will share my viewpoit cos i said the same to you in a facebok or youtube post

You Said : The Platter Stand is a support tool, developed after numerous request from our clients.
Reply : Well no doubt about that

You Sad :To use it, a certain level of experience and knowledge is needed. If you have ever cleaned the platters of the drive struck by the floods, unskilled/sloppy data recovery technician or client, this tool would be very useful in terms of:
Reply : Well unfortunately how many of those DR firms/People you know can remove a multiplatter Hard drive platters and fix them back .I do not think its easy without a proper machine or some tools which i a sure 99.9 skilled and experienced DR guys have not got .The Rest 0.1% are companies like seagate data recovery "BTW i did see a platter stand on one one thier video and it was for single platter " .

You Said :1. Having an easy approach to the platters
Reply : True Its a Great Tool For Single Platters .But if the tech cannot reassemble multiplatter platter stack back taking ,inspecting ,cleaning multiplatter stack does not make sense

You Said :2. Avoiding problems with other platters while inspecting one
Reply : Well that is true ,even for single platler i would say .

You Said :3. Easily sinking the platter into the cleaning liquid etc. etc.
Reply : Totally Useless Idea in my opinion ,You will need a big dia utensil/cleaner and it will need to be deep ,Were as single platter and muti platter stacks can be cleaned [ Properly ] With a 2 Inch Deep Cleaner/Utensil Just at the size of the hdd 3.5" or 2.5" when hdd it vertical standing " .Plus no issue wth mutiplatter adjustment .For inspection well for single platter there are simpler ways to do it and for multiplatter makes zero sense if we cannot reassemble to make it work again .

You Said :We have made a simple and safe holder for the platters. It is up to data recovery engineer how to manage the platters and how many of them. We were asked by experienced data recovery engineers to develop such tool and so far we receive nothing but positive impressions.
Reply :Well yes you have made it simple and safe .Well 99.9% of us cannot manage multiplatter alignments .

PS : my opinions are based on the fact of my knowledge and daily working with physical work in my lab .If someone wants to pour in better views of multiplatter alignment i would be grateful .Cheers nikola keep making new tools



If you have so many questions this is for sure not a tool for you. As i told you before , we are here to make support tools for our collages. We do not explain data recovery tehniques. For many reasons, fist and biggest one is we do not have enough man power.
I tried to explain all this on FB but as I remeber you did not want to hear me.
You want to explain your self things you do not know using info you have in your domain. It is impossible . You can not look over horisont , you must try to climb more. At least to try...

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: January 15th, 2017, 3:25 
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Joined: April 26th, 2012, 1:52
Posts: 392
Location: Chicago, USA
There are fixtures and methods to ensure platters are aligned and in proper position when re-assembling. Both virtually (after spin-stand read) and physically when putting the drive back together after a cleaning.

There are also ways to inspect the inner surfaces of the platters while they're still on the spindle.

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: January 15th, 2017, 10:08 
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Joined: December 8th, 2010, 11:37
Posts: 684
Location: Ottawa, Canada
@Keatah, I'm sure many of us would be interested in learning more about how this is done. I assume it requires production-grade equipment that very few of us could possibly afford. Any links?

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: January 16th, 2017, 3:51 
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Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 704
Location: Belgrade
LarrySabo wrote:
@Keatah, I'm sure many of us would be interested in learning more about how this is done. I assume it requires production-grade equipment that very few of us could possibly afford. Any links?


I am not sure that it links exists, but it is not a topic here. We made a platter stand. Nothing more nothing less.
We know it will be use full. People asked for it.

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: February 20th, 2020, 6:34 
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Joined: May 11th, 2010, 12:23
Posts: 42
Location: EU
Hdd surgerys platter stand is the safest and best tool for inspecting a multi platter drive. Other platter stand tool (chinese copies) are not safe to work with!

So if you are serious you will buy the Hdd surgery platter stand soon or later or when you understand the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: February 20th, 2020, 15:07 
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Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:08
Posts: 7649
Location: UK
eazycut wrote:
Hdd surgerys platter stand is the safest and best tool for inspecting a multi platter drive. Other platter stand tool (chinese copies) are not safe to work with!

So if you are serious you will buy the Hdd surgery platter stand soon or later or when you understand the difference.


I have to agree, I’ve got the hdd surgery one and a Chinese one. No comparison.

I’ve never felt brave enough to use the Chinese one on a real case!

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: March 4th, 2020, 16:21 
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Joined: September 17th, 2016, 16:06
Posts: 167
Location: India
fzabkar wrote:
data-medics wrote:
I think the question on everyone's mind looking at this tool is: What about platter alignment?

I know that modern drives write servo on each platter surface, but it's my experience that they are still extremely sensitive to any loss of alignment.

I confess my ignorance. Why should there be any alignment issue with an embedded servo?

AISI, if the relative rotational position (disc-to-disc skew) is disturbed, then the platter merely needs to rotate a little more in order to compensate for the difference.

Is this "alignment" referring to eccentricity? If the platter is a little off-centre, then perhaps its "wobble" could fall outside the range of the servo.

BTW, I do understand that there is an alignment issue -- I just don't understand why.



I agree with the concept of a little more rotation (if you are saying w.r.t RPM)
Simple physics says that faradays law is emf = -d(phi)/d(time) where - sign indicates lenz law.
So a little more RPM would mean a little more d (phi) ie angular velocity due to rpm would create more emf
more emf better signal ?

I have a very vague idea of using a MEMS cam to inspect the cross section of the platter while it spins slowly and investigating if there is a wobble and recording this at high fps. (may be rotate it by a screwdriver if not an external PWM controller)

just a thought.

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: March 7th, 2020, 14:17 
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Joined: October 3rd, 2005, 0:40
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Location: Hungary
Quote:
I agree with the concept of a little more rotation (if you are saying w.r.t RPM)
Simple physics says that faradays law is emf = -d(phi)/d(time) where - sign indicates lenz law.
So a little more RPM would mean a little more d (phi) ie angular velocity due to rpm would create more emf
more emf better signal ?


what does this have to do with alignment? Also, since we forgot inductive read heads quite long ago and everything is based on GMR, signal amplitude does not depend on the velocity.
pepe

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: March 8th, 2020, 16:27 
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Joined: September 17th, 2016, 16:06
Posts: 167
Location: India
Hello, I am sure you are right. However, what bothers me is. EMF is function of 2 things
1) d phi / Dt (as per Faradays Law)
2) EMF = BLV.SinTheeta... here Sin theeta is the angle between the conductor and the flux lines.So a mis alignment here wll cause reduction of EMF and the max value it can attain is when both the planes are perpendicular to each other at sine 90 degrees.

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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: March 8th, 2020, 17:03 
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Joined: September 29th, 2005, 4:10
Posts: 322
Location: Moscow
sin,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetoresistance


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 Post subject: Re: Platter Stand - new tool from HddSurgery
PostPosted: March 9th, 2020, 7:09 
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Joined: September 17th, 2016, 16:06
Posts: 167
Location: India
Thanks. I will definitely explore more of this equationally. I must go through a lot more to further comment.


Considering transplants of heads and not removal of platter,

Would that mean even if a head transplant is performed and the heads are not perfectly parallel to the platter (may be there is a very less skew-angle of a few pico seconds, the magnetoresistance induced will be the same to that of a perfectly parallel setting.....Also are you implying and there is no relation between the conductor/head w.r.t the flux lines and cutting angle between them? Even if there is a pico level skew/bend and the head is not perfectly parallel to the platter, though it may not scratch the platter luckily, but will produce the same read-writeresults ?

There will be something definitely on angle dependece on magnetoresistance.

Very interesting to know. Thanks for education/awareness...Kindly please educate more.

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