Main » Forums home » Flash storage, SSD

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 3
  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 18:47 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 11th, 2013, 17:01
Posts: 1434
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
jeremyb wrote:
ddrecovery wrote:
4.3v, not sure why its not 5v.

That's not good, try taking the DC/DC converter out of the circuit. Something is pulling amperage.

Pulled the converter but it had no effect on voltages at C8 and C104

jeremyb wrote:
Tim what model controller does this flash drive have?

Phison 2251 and yes it is BGA.

_________________
HDD, SSD, Flash and RAID Data Recovery
Top
 Profile  
 
Blizzard
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 18:48 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 21st, 2014, 1:39
Posts: 123
Location: Ellijay, GA
FYI: We have had a couple of PNY 128GB Phison based that use a proprietary USB 3.0 connector. They crossed a couple of wires in the connector so wiring a standard pinout connector straight through won't work.

_________________
Blizzard Data Recovery
Top
 Profile  
 
ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 18:56 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 11th, 2013, 17:01
Posts: 1434
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
Blizzard wrote:
FYI: We have had a couple of PNY 128GB Phison based that use a proprietary USB 3.0 connector. They crossed a couple of wires in the connector so wiring a standard pinout connector straight through won't work.

Interesting. This drive had the same issues before and after the new connector was used, so I would be surprised if that was the issue. But I will check. Thanks.

_________________
HDD, SSD, Flash and RAID Data Recovery
Top
 Profile  
 
fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 18:58 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 12419
Location: Australia
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.


Attachments:
5V_side_1.jpg
5V_side_1.jpg [ 104.73 KiB | Viewed 6416 times ]
5V_side_2.jpg
5V_side_2.jpg [ 155.95 KiB | Viewed 6416 times ]

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.
Top
 Profile  
 
jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:35 
Offline

Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 294
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.


Attachments:
usb4tim.png
usb4tim.png [ 173.43 KiB | Viewed 6411 times ]

_________________
Recover My Flash Drive


Last edited by jeremyb on June 4th, 2018, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:36 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 12419
Location: Australia
This one has a different USB pinout, plus it has two switchmode regulators:

http://thessdreviewcdn2.thessdreview1.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Patriot-256GB-Flash-Drive-PCB-Front.jpg

Ouch!

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.
Top
 Profile  
 
jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:39 
Offline

Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 294
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

No Seriously, I do this all the time, the tx speed is slow as fuck but it legit works, this is how USB 3.0 ports are wired...

If your nervous use a resettable fuse from a SanDisk flash drive like I outline in my monolithic video between +5v and your voltage source..

fzabkar wrote:
This one has a different USB pinout
No it doesn't look closer

_________________
Recover My Flash Drive


Last edited by jeremyb on June 4th, 2018, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:43 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 11th, 2013, 17:01
Posts: 1434
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
I will give it a try. Thanks for the help guys.

_________________
HDD, SSD, Flash and RAID Data Recovery
Top
 Profile  
 
fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:44 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 12419
Location: Australia
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.


Image

:shock: :shock: :shock:

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.
Top
 Profile  
 
jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:47 
Offline

Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 294
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
fzabkar wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Lol, but you can see it yourself..
USB 2.0 connector pins are interleaved with USB 3.0. This is a fact, I know, I work with them frequently. Recover My Flash Drive :lol: :lol:

Look at his picture, +5v USB 2.0 bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller. his picture is missing the via's for D+ and D-, but your picture has them..
USB 2.0 GND is on that tiny capacitor.

Some InnoStar controllers do the same thing, they isolate USB 2.0 from USB 3.0

_________________
Recover My Flash Drive
Top
 Profile  
 
fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:54 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 12419
Location: Australia
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
This one has a different USB pinout
No it doesn't look closer

Sorry, they still look different to me. :?


Attachments:
USB_pins.jpg
USB_pins.jpg [ 138.44 KiB | Viewed 6403 times ]

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.
Top
 Profile  
 
fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:59 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 12419
Location: Australia
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Lol, but you can see it yourself..
USB 2.0 connector pins are interleaved with USB 3.0. This is a fact, I know, I work with them frequently. Recover My Flash Drive :lol: :lol:

Look at his picture, +5v USB 2.0 bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller. his picture is missing the via's for D+ and D-, but your picture has them..
USB 2.0 GND is on that tiny capacitor.

Some InnoStar controllers do the same thing, they isolate USB 2.0 from USB 3.0

You are telling the OP to connect USB ground to a USB 3.0 signal pin, and USB +5V to another USB 3.0 signal pin. That's absurd.

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.
Top
 Profile  
 
jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 20:08 
Offline

Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 294
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
They are USB 2.0 signal pins, NOT USB 3.0
USB 3.0 is backward compatible w/ 2.0, look inside any USB 3.0 connector you'll see the four USB 2.0 pins, that's where they mate on the PCB..
(Pin 1 in Reference to the PCB, not the actual spec)

Pin 1, USB 3.0
Pin 2, USB 2.0 <-- Vcc
Pin 3, USB 3.0
Pin 4, USB 2.0 <-- D-
Pin 5, USB 3.0
Pin 6, USB 2.0 <-- D+
Pin 7, USB 3.0
Pin 8, USB 2.0 <-- GND
Pin 9, USB 3.0

Plain as day and night in your picture..


Attachments:
USB-3.0-pinout-580x425.png
USB-3.0-pinout-580x425.png [ 111.31 KiB | Viewed 6399 times ]
USB_pins.jpg
USB_pins.jpg [ 138.44 KiB | Viewed 6399 times ]

_________________
Recover My Flash Drive


Last edited by jeremyb on June 4th, 2018, 20:15, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 20:15 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 12419
Location: Australia
Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?


Attachments:
usb4tim_power_to_signal.png
usb4tim_power_to_signal.png [ 169.64 KiB | Viewed 6399 times ]

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.
Top
 Profile  
 
jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 20:18 
Offline

Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 294
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
fzabkar wrote:
Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?

I know this PCB design, I'm looking at one by InnoStar and Phison right now (same design as his but TSOP & no DC/DC Step Down) they are not signals, those are voltage rails. That is how older USB 3.0 drives were designed, newer SM ones aren't that way, you can tell the old design because they terminate ground with 0hm resistors on the USB shield.

_________________
Recover My Flash Drive
Top
 Profile  
 
jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 20:37 
Offline

Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 294
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
I stand corrected, on the Phison PCB the connector is different, +5v is Pin 1.. on my Silicon Motion and InnoStar drives Pin 2 is +5v

_________________
Recover My Flash Drive
Top
 Profile  
 
Minho
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 21:19 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: November 9th, 2017, 13:46
Posts: 17
Location: Montreal, Canada
jeremyb wrote:
Wouldn't it be funny if by removing the NAND chip the controller booted up and we found out it was simply a broken pad under the NAND chip.


Funny indeed :D

_________________
Designated Fixer at home | Learn more about what I do
Top
 Profile  
 
Blizzard
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 21:22 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 21st, 2014, 1:39
Posts: 123
Location: Ellijay, GA
Minho wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
Wouldn't it be funny if by removing the NAND chip the controller booted up and we found out it was simply a broken pad under the NAND chip.


Funny, that's my thinking too...
In my experience if you have a loose connection on the NAND the device will still work but you will get a no media error. Your mileage may vary :)

_________________
Blizzard Data Recovery
Top
 Profile  
 
ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 16:38 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 11th, 2013, 17:01
Posts: 1434
Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
fzabkar wrote:
Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?

Could I clarify with you which are the USB 2.0 signal pins. VCC and GND are easy to see, but the only differentiation in signal pin sets is the fact one set has caps. The layout on the board does not seem to conform with a 3.0 connector layout.

_________________
HDD, SSD, Flash and RAID Data Recovery
Top
 Profile  
 
Blizzard
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 17:07 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: October 21st, 2014, 1:39
Posts: 123
Location: Ellijay, GA
I will defer to fzabkar, but my previous cases the USB 3.0 have caps, 2.0 do not. The ones I have (Phison 2251) with non-standard USB 3.0 pinout have the controller on the opposite side and TSOP48 NAND.

_________________
Blizzard Data Recovery
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 3
  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Main » Forums home » Flash storage, SSD

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jerovsek and 7 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Switch to mobile style
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group