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ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 18:47 
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jeremyb wrote:
ddrecovery wrote:
4.3v, not sure why its not 5v.

That's not good, try taking the DC/DC converter out of the circuit. Something is pulling amperage.

Pulled the converter but it had no effect on voltages at C8 and C104

jeremyb wrote:
Tim what model controller does this flash drive have?

Phison 2251 and yes it is BGA.

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Blizzard
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 18:48 
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FYI: We have had a couple of PNY 128GB Phison based that use a proprietary USB 3.0 connector. They crossed a couple of wires in the connector so wiring a standard pinout connector straight through won't work.

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ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 18:56 
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Blizzard wrote:
FYI: We have had a couple of PNY 128GB Phison based that use a proprietary USB 3.0 connector. They crossed a couple of wires in the connector so wiring a standard pinout connector straight through won't work.

Interesting. This drive had the same issues before and after the new connector was used, so I would be surprised if that was the issue. But I will check. Thanks.

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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 18:58 
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AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.


Attachments:
5V_side_1.jpg
5V_side_1.jpg [ 104.73 KiB | Viewed 6022 times ]
5V_side_2.jpg
5V_side_2.jpg [ 155.95 KiB | Viewed 6022 times ]

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:35 
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fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.


Attachments:
usb4tim.png
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Last edited by jeremyb on June 4th, 2018, 19:38, edited 1 time in total.
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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:36 
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This one has a different USB pinout, plus it has two switchmode regulators:

http://thessdreviewcdn2.thessdreview1.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Patriot-256GB-Flash-Drive-PCB-Front.jpg

Ouch!

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:39 
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jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

No Seriously, I do this all the time, the tx speed is slow as fuck but it legit works, this is how USB 3.0 ports are wired...

If your nervous use a resettable fuse from a SanDisk flash drive like I outline in my monolithic video between +5v and your voltage source..

fzabkar wrote:
This one has a different USB pinout
No it doesn't look closer

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Last edited by jeremyb on June 4th, 2018, 19:44, edited 1 time in total.

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ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:43 
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I will give it a try. Thanks for the help guys.

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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:44 
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jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.


Image

:shock: :shock: :shock:

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:47 
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fzabkar wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Lol, but you can see it yourself..
USB 2.0 connector pins are interleaved with USB 3.0. This is a fact, I know, I work with them frequently. Recover My Flash Drive :lol: :lol:

Look at his picture, +5v USB 2.0 bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller. his picture is missing the via's for D+ and D-, but your picture has them..
USB 2.0 GND is on that tiny capacitor.

Some InnoStar controllers do the same thing, they isolate USB 2.0 from USB 3.0

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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:54 
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jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
This one has a different USB pinout
No it doesn't look closer

Sorry, they still look different to me. :?


Attachments:
USB_pins.jpg
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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 19:59 
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jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
fzabkar wrote:
AFAICT, +5V should be present at each of the marked test points.

Use a USB 2.0 connector and see what happens, looks like it bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Lol, but you can see it yourself..
USB 2.0 connector pins are interleaved with USB 3.0. This is a fact, I know, I work with them frequently. Recover My Flash Drive :lol: :lol:

Look at his picture, +5v USB 2.0 bypasses all the circuitry and goes directly into the controller. his picture is missing the via's for D+ and D-, but your picture has them..
USB 2.0 GND is on that tiny capacitor.

Some InnoStar controllers do the same thing, they isolate USB 2.0 from USB 3.0

You are telling the OP to connect USB ground to a USB 3.0 signal pin, and USB +5V to another USB 3.0 signal pin. That's absurd.

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 20:08 
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They are USB 2.0 signal pins, NOT USB 3.0
USB 3.0 is backward compatible w/ 2.0, look inside any USB 3.0 connector you'll see the four USB 2.0 pins, that's where they mate on the PCB..
(Pin 1 in Reference to the PCB, not the actual spec)

Pin 1, USB 3.0
Pin 2, USB 2.0 <-- Vcc
Pin 3, USB 3.0
Pin 4, USB 2.0 <-- D-
Pin 5, USB 3.0
Pin 6, USB 2.0 <-- D+
Pin 7, USB 3.0
Pin 8, USB 2.0 <-- GND
Pin 9, USB 3.0

Plain as day and night in your picture..


Attachments:
USB-3.0-pinout-580x425.png
USB-3.0-pinout-580x425.png [ 111.31 KiB | Viewed 6005 times ]
USB_pins.jpg
USB_pins.jpg [ 138.44 KiB | Viewed 6005 times ]

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Last edited by jeremyb on June 4th, 2018, 20:15, edited 1 time in total.
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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 20:15 
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Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?


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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 20:18 
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fzabkar wrote:
Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?

I know this PCB design, I'm looking at one by InnoStar and Phison right now (same design as his but TSOP & no DC/DC Step Down) they are not signals, those are voltage rails. That is how older USB 3.0 drives were designed, newer SM ones aren't that way, you can tell the old design because they terminate ground with 0hm resistors on the USB shield.

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 20:37 
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I stand corrected, on the Phison PCB the connector is different, +5v is Pin 1.. on my Silicon Motion and InnoStar drives Pin 2 is +5v

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Minho
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 21:19 
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jeremyb wrote:
Wouldn't it be funny if by removing the NAND chip the controller booted up and we found out it was simply a broken pad under the NAND chip.


Funny indeed :D

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Blizzard
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 4th, 2018, 21:22 
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Minho wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
Wouldn't it be funny if by removing the NAND chip the controller booted up and we found out it was simply a broken pad under the NAND chip.


Funny, that's my thinking too...
In my experience if you have a loose connection on the NAND the device will still work but you will get a no media error. Your mileage may vary :)

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ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 16:38 
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fzabkar wrote:
Can you not see that you are connecting power pins to signal pins?

Could I clarify with you which are the USB 2.0 signal pins. VCC and GND are easy to see, but the only differentiation in signal pin sets is the fact one set has caps. The layout on the board does not seem to conform with a 3.0 connector layout.

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Blizzard
 Post subject: Re: Flash Drive Help
PostPosted: June 5th, 2018, 17:07 
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I will defer to fzabkar, but my previous cases the USB 3.0 have caps, 2.0 do not. The ones I have (Phison 2251) with non-standard USB 3.0 pinout have the controller on the opposite side and TSOP48 NAND.

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