All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 17th, 2018, 17:29 
Offline

Joined: September 15th, 2018, 21:09
Posts: 19
Location: California
Nice find, I'll probably take a course there or similar colleges that offer such classes, better than an expensive week seminar.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 18:59 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:49
Posts: 9680
Location: Portugal
digicube wrote:
After watching youtube videos, DR is not really that hard. You just need the expensive tools and a few weeks of training. It's not like computer programming where you need 4 years of college.


Try to properly learn how to use PC-3000, MRT, SeDiv, etc for each brand of drive and firmware arch ....

Data recovery professionals need years to start having an idea on how firmware works and it does require several drives to sacrifice and kill for good along the way ...

It's not just the $$$ for the tools, it's the $$$ for the drives of all "series" that you do want to study/learn + it's not all about head stack replacement (clean room work) you need to learn some basic stuff about PCBs, at least you need to know when you do need to replace/swap ROM chips and when that is not required, etc .... and then you do have to deal with firmware that is not the same from drive to drive .... assuming your $6000 USD PC-3000 do support the drive model that you do have (forget about latest drives like He filled HGST, etc) ... and then you do need to start learning ATA commands to understand what you are doing and learn about VSCs to fill the gaps that commercial tools have .... you keep on searching, rsearching and study for years as a full time job and you will never know all that there is to know as new models enter the market and tech will evolve for example from standard platter moving hdd to solid state ----

Good luck, have fun learning !

_________________
1Q9xrDTzTddUXeJAFRn37aqh1Yr6buDCdw - (Bitcoin Donations)
paypal.me/Spildit - (PayPal Donations)
The HDD Oracle - Platform for OPEN research on Data Recovery.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 19:41 
Offline

Joined: September 15th, 2018, 21:09
Posts: 19
Location: California
Wish there are online classes for such thing. Some DR expert should make a Udemy class.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 20:42 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 19th, 2006, 8:49
Posts: 9680
Location: Portugal
digicube wrote:
Wish there are online classes for such thing. Some DR expert should make a Udemy class.


People will not teach you the "tricks" hey are using to make $$$ ....

If you pay $6000 for a PC-3000 and then you grab the commands (VSCs) out of it you are not going to share it for free so that another person without spending one cent can for example unlock drives, change passport, fix firmware, recover data, etc ....

If you pay for tools you do want to 1) make the money back to pay the investment and 2) get some clients and fix some drives as most likely you are doing DR as a business.

Now you gain knowlege and study and research and that knowledge can be turned in money.

If i do live near you and if i did pay for example $20 000 in tools and classes, etc most likely i will not teach you even if you pay me $500 the tricks on getting data back as 1) you will compete with me and 2) you will learn from me for free/very cheap price and you will provide a service that is way cheaper as you didn't invest that much so i will end up not only loosing clients to you but also i will loose the money of my investment providing it to you for free.

Example :

There are a batch of new "x" brand drives that have firmware problem "y".
There are "z" tool that costs $5000 and does fix "y" problem.
I buy "z" tool and i reverse it. I find that it does use just a single VSC to fix "y" problem.

Now ...

I can fix "y" problem, recover data and charge $300 for example and i will get the money back of "z" tool and get some profit as well.

I can code software "s" using VSC carved from "z" tool and sell if for $1000. I will get the money back of investing on "z" tool with 5 sales of my own tool and people can use my $1000 tool as replacement for $5000 one and fix "y" problem and get $300.

Or i can do both, get money from tool + data recovery services ... I can research VSC and try to find variants and adapt to new drives, etc ....

OR ...

I can post the command for free.

Now if i post the command for free or teach you how to fix the issue for let's say a $100 or even $500 class i will get a one time payment of $100 that will not cover my investment of $5000. You will be able to fix the issue for free and post the sollution, people will check the web and learn the sollution for free, etc ... and i will be stuck with an expense of $5000 - the price of a single "teaching" of my method/command to you and will loose money big time.

Even teaching by remote have big disadvantages even if you charge money ....

There are limitations to what one shoud teach and/or not if one does want to make money or not ....

The big problem is that you will have to pay to get tools + knowlege. It's not like you will be able to ge VSCs from drive makers and firmware tools from them as well (for free) ...

Even if you are doing DR just as hobby for fun you don't want to buy something like a tool for a huge amount of money and then send it out for free knowing that by doing that the tool will be available on the net to all one day or another and you will loose all the money that you did spend buying it.

I think it's ok if you do want to fix drives as hobby for a lower price or even for free, etc but sharing too much of what you did learn by reversing things that you did pay a huge amount of money for might not be a good "sollution" as well unless you do like to send money to the garbage bin ...

I can see how people could somehow code some tools even if they are free like the ZU projects, etc to do some functions (unlock some ATA password) as you will have some "credit" even if your project is free ... You will be known as the guy who coded tool z or b even if those tools are freeware and they are very limited, it might help you to get a job, etc ....

Now getting info by paying and then posting it is just loosing money unless you do have a good valid reason to do so i don't think that anyone will be willing to "sell" you a full course of DR knowing that you will be competing sooner or later with that same person that will loose some advantage over you. If i'm the only one that can rebuild ROM on F3 arch i can ask whatever price i want. If i sell you the secret and you start repairing drives for half of the price i will loose a huge amount of money ... and if you decide to post the info on the net .... you get the picture ....

And then of course we start to see people using the sollution that you post to ALL drives, not the ones having the "y" problem but ALL drives ... and now that you did post this sollution on the net people do want data back for free and as soon as they have ANY problem with their drive even if it's a diferent brand and problem they use your posted sollution to fix the drive ... and now assume that the VSC will kill for good other brands of drives or other families of drives just because you do use the wrong command on the worng drive .... ?!

This topic is about people wanting to fix drives for free/cheap without knowing what they are doing .... like this :

http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1427

Congratullations, you killed your drive for good, now even if you go to a "pro" you can't no longer retrieve the data ... happy ?

Then you have another question ... the other side of the coin .... what a "professional" is ?

You might advertize yourself as a DR professional but you don't have the tool to fix problem "y" neither you do have the knowledge / VSC to fix the issue. Now you get a drive with "y" problem and you use spinrite on it after of course leaving the drive on the freezer for days just because it did work last time with a very old model of a drive of another brand that did had 100 times less the capacity of the drive with the "y" issue ... But of course you are a "professional" so you kill the drive for good you somehow manage to hide the fact, charge some fees to the time used to kill ... er ... fix the drive and you are good to go !

You see there are several things to consider and things are not either black or white ...

You have people who invest in tools and don't know how to use them and kill client drives,
You have people who don't invest at all and kill client drives as well,
You ave people that invest and learn and can recover data, you have people who reverse code and use commands and can recover data ....

The big problem is that you can't know for sure who is who and what method someone is using because you are just a client that you don't know a thing about DR otherwise you would be recovering the drive yourself .... or better you would have backups and many of them !

D.I.Y. can go really wrong (or not) and professional work can go wrong if you are just a person pretending to be professional, and the list goes on ...

At the end of the day no-one is perfect as well and even the best of professionals can mess up big time a case or even miss something that a D.I.Y. guy does manage to figure out even if by chance and luck ...

:shock: :shock: :shock:

So ... what do you want for me to advice ? Simple ... Backup. Just avoid all of this by having several backups of the data you need to keep and in diferent midia formats and off site just in case your house burns, gets robbed, etc ...

_________________
1Q9xrDTzTddUXeJAFRn37aqh1Yr6buDCdw - (Bitcoin Donations)
paypal.me/Spildit - (PayPal Donations)
The HDD Oracle - Platform for OPEN research on Data Recovery.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 20:50 
Offline

Joined: September 15th, 2018, 21:09
Posts: 19
Location: California
VSC stands for Virtual Storage Console?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Results of the D.I.Y (Do It Yourself) solutions.
PostPosted: September 29th, 2018, 20:56 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 8th, 2009, 18:21
Posts: 10847
Location: Australia
digicube wrote:
VSC stands for Virtual Storage Console?

Vendor Specific [ATA] Command

_________________
A backup a day keeps DR away.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group