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 Post subject: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 14:23 
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Location: england
Can anyone help me?
My wife fried my Seagate External HDD by connecting a laptop power adaptor by mistake.
The USB->PATA interface circuit in the external case seems ok... but the drive itself creates a short of some kind, meaning the indicator light on the power adaptor and on the interface circuit flashes on and off when the actual HDD is connected up. With the HDD removed (i.e. just the external case and the interface circuit, the power light is on continuously). Tried powering the actual HDD from a PC tower's internal power supply - the entire PC tower fails to power up...
All this means I suspect either the HDD's own PCB is fried, or worse still, something bad's happened within the HDD's sealed components (e.g. motor, heads).

Would like to try swapping PCB for a new (working) one... details as follows:

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 Ultra-ATA
S/N 9QF0BC89
ST3320820A
P/N 9BJ03G-560
Firmware 3.AFE
Date Code: 07154
Site Code: TK

Can anyone sell me an identical unit so I can try the PCB swap? There are some valuable photos I want to recover.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 14:37 
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Good news. TVS is fried.
Search this forum for TVS, it was already talked about many, many times.
Locate the TVS on the PCB, just remove it and you will have access to the data again - hopefully.
Copy the data to another good hdd or replace the TVS if you intend to re-use the drive.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 14:38 
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Post a picture of the PCB also. Grab a multimeter, place it on diode position and check the TVSs one by one.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 14:52 
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Joined: November 29th, 2006, 10:08
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Hi

Post a pic of the PCB so we can locate the TVS for you.

If you feel you're not up to the job, I'm in Peterborough and can sort it out for a nominal charge.

Cheers

Sean

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 17:13 
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Joined: May 9th, 2009, 14:12
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Location: england
Thanks to all for speedy responses.
Will check out other posts regarding TVS but for now please see attached a pic of the PCB in question. Let me know if you need further info e.g. full details of what's printed on the chips etc.
Would welcome any further advice or suggestions.

Thanks


Attachments:
File comment: Seagate PCB
SeagatePCB.JPG
SeagatePCB.JPG [ 46.01 KiB | Viewed 17122 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 17:47 
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Check the two black components bottom left, one going up/down, the other left/right.

Check them for continuity, they should NOT be shorted.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 18:10 
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I've marked them for you.
Put multimeter on diode mode, and check each of the parts marked in red, if they are short (most likely only one of them is) just remove it and drive should work fine.
But remember that the protection will be gone and you will need to replace them for safety if you want to re-use the drive. If you just want to do data recovery, copy the data out and get a new drive.


Attachments:
SeagatePCB.JPG
SeagatePCB.JPG [ 46.18 KiB | Viewed 17095 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 18:26 
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Having looked at some other TVS posts now, I'm getting a better idea of what might be wrong. Thanks again for amazingly speedy advice!
A potentially dumb question now arises - apologies if so - but:
Will the difference between normal continuity and a short be obvious for these TVS components? I'll be relying on an ex-broadcast engineer mate for multimeter skills, but for now just dredging up my own v. rusty knowledge of electronics, anything below ~100ohms is often treated by multimeter as equivalent to short is it not?


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 18:31 
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Sorry Spildit I didn't notice your latest post while asking my (possibly dumb) question on multimeters. Thanks to you and pcimage for the advice. I'll assume 'diode mode' will make all the difference in being able to determine what's up (I'm sure my qualified mate will be fine with it all anyway!).


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 9th, 2009, 18:39 
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Ok, place the multimeter on diode mode, (mine marks 1), now short the probes of the multimeter (touche the red one and the black one. The number displayed on the multimeter will be the same you will see when a component is allowing the power to pass trough.
Now place the probes on the components that i've marked. One probe on one side of the component and the other probe on the other side. Do this for each TVS that i've marked. Note what you see on the multimeter. If one of the TVSs allow the current to pass (the same number that you got when you short the probes - on my multimeter - 0) than that TVS have to be removed/replaced. Remember that a diode should only allow current to pass on one way. Allways test the TVS the 2 ways, by placing the red/black probe of the multimeter on the top/bottom of the TVS and than the other way arround (trade the red and black probe the other way arround) . A shorted TVS should allow current to pass on the 2 ways, so on the 2 readings you should get the same numer as when you put the red probe in contact with the black probe (on my multimeter - 0).

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 3:48 
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Thank you once again for such speedy and detailed advice.
What you've said all makes perfect sense.
Having googled Transient Voltage Suppression Diode I'm beginning to appreciate what these things do. I'm thankful such things exist on these PCBs!

Sorry to drag this out...some more questions arise (prior to me getting assistance from my multimeter mate) - with apologies if any of these repeat other posts elsewhere on forum:
1) Assuming fault is found with one or both TVSs, what's the recommended procedure for removing it/them?
2) How big a risk am I taking powering the HDD up if I've removed one or both TVSs?
3) Regarding choice of (temporary) power source - assuming faulty TVS has been identified and removed - I was considering connecting the HDD back up to its original power supply in the external enclosure since this seems on the face of it to still be functional. Would I be best off avoiding this and using PC Tower instead, or is there a way of verifying the original power supply - perhaps with a multimeter? :idea: - checking for 5V and 12V at the correct amperage at the relevant points? It's more convenient for me to use the original supply if possible since PC Tower is not my own.
4) Is it generally a fairly straightfoward task to source a replacement TVS component and install it on the PCB?

Once again all advice gratefully received.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 3:58 
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Sorry - just answering my own question (2) from re-reading one of your earlier responses
Quote:
But remember that the protection will be gone and you will need to replace them for safety if you want to re-use the drive.
Understood, but just need to know what kind of external surges are likely to occur while I'm attempting to copy off data. Is there a minimum-risk approach to powering up the HDD with TVSs removed?


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 4:06 
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Assuming your PSU or USB caddy is know to be good, then you should be OK.

Go for it, and good luck!

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 9:21 
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Quote:
1) Assuming fault is found with one or both TVSs, what's the recommended procedure for removing it/them?
2) How big a risk am I taking powering the HDD up if I've removed one or both TVSs?
3) Regarding choice of (temporary) power source - assuming faulty TVS has been identified and removed - I was considering connecting the HDD back up to its original power supply in the external enclosure since this seems on the face of it to still be functional. Would I be best off avoiding this and using PC Tower instead, or is there a way of verifying the original power supply - perhaps with a multimeter? - checking for 5V and 12V at the correct amperage at the relevant points? It's more convenient for me to use the original supply if possible since PC Tower is not my own.
4) Is it generally a fairly straightfoward task to source a replacement TVS component and install it on the PCB?



1 - Use a soldering iron to remove it or simple cut it off and remove it from the circuit board the best way you can without leaving it shorting the 2 points of the board where it is shorted ...

2 - Probably it will all be fine, because your initial problem was with the power supply of your external box and not with your PC power supply. If something bad happen you can fry other components of the Hard Drive PCB and you will have to start looking for a new comaptible one ....

3 - USE THE PC POWER SUPPLY. Connect the drive directy to the PC. You have overvoltage the external case, so it's assumed to be toasted/bad. If you connect anything there chances are hight to cause more damage. Just discard the thing and if you don't want to connect the drive directly to the pc at least go buy a new external case, they are cheap. But i allways recommend to connect directly to the pc anyway.

4 - The most easy way to get a replacement TVS is from any other hard drive that you can find. Just go to e-bay or something like that and buy the cheaper drive you can find, even if it have bad sectors you can use that and remove the TVS and put on your drive. Just mesure it first to be sure that it's good.

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 9:24 
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Quote:
Understood, but just need to know what kind of external surges are likely to occur while I'm attempting to copy off data. Is there a minimum-risk approach to powering up the HDD with TVSs removed?


The same amount of surges that you can face when your TVS are there !
But when you have a TVS it will fry like it have happened with yours when you plug the wrong power cable on the box. It there were no TVS other components of the PCB would be fried also and you would have to find a new replacing board, and also could damage the pre-amp inside the drive ....

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 9:30 
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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 13:06 
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Ok, thanks for the advice.
I was just wondering whether TVSs are there on HDDs as a result of general unreliablility of power supplies - in other words, I wondered if the expected tolerances encountered on 12V/5V power lines in these environments through normal usage was something that required TVSs to be present?

But from what you say, it suggests they're really there to guard against the extreme and hopefully very infrequent cases where significant spikes or surges occur due to unusual events - and as a result, removing a TVS and running up the HDD for as long as it takes to copy off the data is a risk worth taking? Maybe a bit like entrusting your life to a qualified skydiving instructor on a tandem jump? :)

I may be being ultra-paranoid and I suspect I'm going to go for it anyway, but thought I'd ask the question.

Thanks to all for such helpful advice. This really has been one of the most useful forums I've visited.


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 13:48 
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Quote:
But from what you say, it suggests they're really there to guard against the extreme and hopefully very infrequent cases where significant spikes or surges occur due to unusual events - and as a result, removing a TVS and running up the HDD for as long as it takes to copy off the data is a risk worth taking?



TVS are there to protect the circuit from extreme conditions and surges, etc ...
Think about this, a problem that kill a TVS renders your drive useless. How many times will that happen on normal use with the drive ? And also many drive problems are not TVS related ....
So if you have a good power supply on the PC (not chinese cheap one) the chances are that you can run the drive on the PC for the rest of its life without problems even without TVS ....

When people got theyr hard drives killed by power surges they normally won't be able to fix them. You have a 2nd chance to get to your data and to ressurect your drive. You might have luck and a good power supply and you might be able to be running that drive without problems even withou TVS for years and years ....

TVS is just the protection for the rest of the PCB. The same problems that have put you in the sittuation you are now are the ones that can destroy the rest of the PCB if they happen without a TVS ...

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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 14:21 
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Thanks again Spildit. Appreciate what you're saying. I think you and others here have armed me with a lot of really handy info and I'm very very grateful. Time to take some action and hopefully get my data. I'll post the result here once I've done it... fingers crossed!


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 Post subject: Re: Seagate 320GB ST3320820A - PCB swap?
PostPosted: May 10th, 2009, 14:37 
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:beer:

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