All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 10th, 2008, 2:37 
Offline

Joined: February 10th, 2008, 1:57
Posts: 2
ALL,

(Forum Newbie) I have a 500 GB Lacie Porsche HD that crapped the bed on me when my co-worker knocked it onto the floor. “Click O’ Death” (350 GB of 13 years of military stuff, family photos, and generally important info IN LIMBO) Soooo… I had a "Specialist" look at it and they said they couldn't repair it (Needed to swap the platters). I am mechanically adept and through desperation I took this thing apart. The heads were twisted, but the platters look surprisingly good. However the “Specialist” left fingerprints on the top platter. Is that bad?

So I took them out to check both sides of each platter to make sure they weren't smoked. (Bad mistake or so I read since I apparently misaligned them due to ignorance of the cylinder writing process, this was AFTER the next sentence) So I go and buy a super-similar (HD Seagate 500GB) same specs because the original has been discontinued, (Lacie Porche 500GB) they look identical inside; circuit boards almost identical, spindle circum same, platters same width/size, same RPM, voltage, amps, ect. Well after feeling better that it may be possible to do a Mexican heart transplant with these two, I do more research before I go ahead and try this tomorrow morning and find out about keeping the platters aligned, to my SHEER HORROR, but hey I don't have $900 - $3,900 (DiskSavers) to get back my data. Sooooo….

(Both of the following questions fall under the understanding that the greatest care and cleanliness will be used in this process to not damage the heads and circuits, i.e. static discharge, dust, fingerprints, ect.)

My 1st Question: Can I place the (now misaligned) individual platters from the bad drive into the new drive to read them individually and then bring each platter's info back together and/or is there a method to realign them properly into the new drive or just put them in and hope for the best?

My 2nd Question: The new drive I bought hasn’t been used yet, so if the attempt of data recovery for the damaged drive is a failure, will I have to keep the new drive’s platters aligned while they are out, or can I just slap them back in to use for the first time?

I have limited time and fewer resources to get this done. (By 19 Feb 08) I have all the tools already since I’ve successfully modded Xbox’s and whatnot. (Definitely doesn’t make me an expert) But I will move forward in trying this transplant (Gamble), but any tips or advice from knowledgeable experts would be greatly appreciated. (However after talking with several experts, they said it might work, but seemed not to have any experience with this)

V/R

TSgt Tanner, USAF Academy.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 10th, 2008, 3:42 
Offline

Joined: December 23rd, 2006, 16:08
Posts: 938
Location: NJ
No, no, and no.

I don't know if anyone here will know how to realign or read your data from these circumstances. This could have been a very recoverable situation, but it seems almost without question the problem is made worse the more a non-professional messes with it.

As for your second question... Some may disagree with this (Especially in different parts of the world), but I would NEVER trust a drive I've opened. If your data is worth all the aggrivation of recovering it, it's worth putting it on a reliable drive. A speck of dust may get in , and while it will likely get caught in the internal filter, it may get caught between the head and platter. Then, you'll be back here asking about how to recover data from a pile of oxide bits.

If the data is worth $3000-$5000, send the parts to Seagate. They now do data recovery, and I suspect they are doing a lot of platter swaps. There's a chance they may be able to realign the platters, or read without alignment. Otherwise, I think you are severely out of luck. You can take a chance and try it yourself, but considering a professional wouldn't even bother trying, you'll likely just wind up with 2 bad drives.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 10th, 2008, 18:06 
Offline

Joined: February 10th, 2008, 1:57
Posts: 2
Thank you that's what I figured. I will keep the new Seagate I just bought intact, no use in wasting another 500GB drive. I have an old 2 platter 80GB drive that I will use to experiment with. What's funny is the specialist and other experts said you just need to swap the platters, you'd think they would add in the most important fact of keeping them aligned.

I can definately say I've learned a handfull of valuable lessons from this.

I will apply for a patent for a platter system that has alignment slots on the inner spindle circumference on the platters and a dovetail on the motor axle. I cannot believe they didn't come up with this before. If it can work for a lawnmower engine and a million other spinning devices it work for a HDD. You'd think if they can develop something so complex they'd could come up with an alignment notch of the platters. (Unless there is something about the high spin inertias and them being composed of ceramics.)

Regardless, thank you for the response, you validated my concerns.

V/R

TSgt Tanner


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 10th, 2008, 19:18 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: June 8th, 2006, 19:44
Posts: 3048
Location: Atlanta, GA
Seagate bought Action Front, a third-party company. Seagate (the factory) is not doing data recovery. I think the chances of ANYONE getting data off of your drive are slim to none, with none being most likely . . .

There is no need for platter alignment unless there is anticipation of future data recovery. Even so, there is no need to disassemble multiple latter assemblies that I can think of, with a possible exception: rchadwick's friends at Seagate have added a plastic collar that appears to have no purpose other than to frustrate the efforts of 3rd party recovery firms . . .

Maxtors typically use multiple platters / heads and even under the best of circumstances, alignment marks, etc. the tolerances are so tight that it would be a miserably difficult task. Add the complications of contamination and decontamination and you've really made the job tough.

Hang onto your Seagate and don't disassemble it. This lesson has been costly (in terms of lost opportunity) and you have my condolences.

Jon

_________________
http://www.datasaversllc.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 10th, 2008, 19:38 
Offline

Joined: December 23rd, 2006, 16:08
Posts: 938
Location: NJ
Thanks for the clarification Jon. I mentioned Seagate/Action Front exactly because of that plastic collar. I'm sure they either have a way of removing the collar, or aligning the platters. It makes no sense to prevent everyone from recovering data. It does makes sense to prevent everyone except them. I don't know what they have, but I'm sure they have something.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 11th, 2008, 17:04 
Offline

Joined: November 28th, 2004, 1:54
Posts: 321
rchadwick wrote:
Thanks for the clarification Jon. I mentioned Seagate/Action Front exactly because of that plastic collar. I'm sure they either have a way of removing the collar, or aligning the platters. It makes no sense to prevent everyone from recovering data. It does makes sense to prevent everyone except them. I don't know what they have, but I'm sure they have something.


The platter extraction tool we will have ready for market in about April will be able to cope with these plastic inserts.

One has to wonder if they are necessary for normal disk operation, or is it the relationship that exists between ActionFront and Seagate to make recovery "impossible" for mere mortals outside the brotherhood of Seagate/Actionfront?


Duncan Clarke
Retrodata.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 11th, 2008, 18:08 
Offline

Joined: May 21st, 2007, 16:10
Posts: 1586
Location: Gothenburg/ Sweden
Hi all,
As far as I know there is only one company that can read-out data platter for platter and that is IBAS in Norway http://www.ibas.com/

Regards/ Bosse

_________________
Rescue IT Datarecovery service Sweden
Rescue IT Dataräddning Göteborg AB
http://www.rescue-it.se


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 12th, 2008, 11:35 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: September 27th, 2005, 14:14
Posts: 125
Location: In the Middle - bit to the left
Yes but IBAS platen tool is for old old old disk drives........................

_________________
A man is as old as he feels, and a woman as old as she looks


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 13th, 2008, 6:20 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 704
Location: Belgrade
well i is our problem, all of us that live from data recovery.
We all say that we have tools that can take out data from a cigarette smoke or from clouds on the sky
and when customer comes sayes that he will give You his house his car his underage dauther and a dog, well we need to say Sir it is impossibile to take Your data out.
And he asks then SHIT whay dont You use FORCE JUNG Jeddy master ( as YOu previoulse said amoung judo and fujisty You know a Jiujitsy) well we ran out of it Sir try in super market it is red and it ayes FORCE 100gr.
The question is the same, like can the Man walk on moon YES it can.
Can it be done to read data out of a drive directly from platters, Yes it can.
WHO WANTS to try it?
IBAS, Ontrack ,Ace Seagate well Yes if we all togeather push it we can do it.
First You need to read it with magnetic microsope, then You need to scan whole platter. Before You need to mark them somehow, then You need to try to find out where is the firmware, on one platter ( at least one part of it) .Basicly idea is the find something that is standard for that particular drive model and firmware, lest say serial number or name. Then You need to align the images from platters and then use reconstructed translator and adaptive date and g and p list etc etc to lba presentation...
well can it be done YES. who can do It.
Who does it will be called Great Cheef of tribe that is dayng slowley
The BIG RED ASS of DATARECOVERY
TEach me guru pleeeze

_________________
HddSurgery - Professional Data Recovery Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 13th, 2008, 8:49 
Offline

Joined: May 2nd, 2007, 10:31
Posts: 33
OnTrack can do this job easily.....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 13th, 2008, 9:25 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 704
Location: Belgrade
sure

_________________
HddSurgery - Professional Data Recovery Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 13th, 2008, 9:46 
Offline

Joined: January 8th, 2008, 5:21
Posts: 900
Location: uk
Obviously it can be done but it all depends on who is asking.........lets just say if the knowledge leading to the whereabouts of Bin laden was on a platter that needed to be realigned, that data would be recovered in a matter of hours.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 13th, 2008, 9:53 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 704
Location: Belgrade
no it would not , that is what I am talking about all the time.
I would like someone to tell all of us it can be done. I can do it costs XXXXX $.

_________________
HddSurgery - Professional Data Recovery Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 13th, 2008, 13:52 
Offline

Joined: May 2nd, 2007, 10:31
Posts: 33
OnTrack does it everyday....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 13th, 2008, 17:17 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: December 12th, 2005, 3:32
Posts: 704
Location: Belgrade
well You frogot that some of us are ontrack partners, and that we recive a lot of no goes from ontrack because platter damage...

_________________
HddSurgery - Professional Data Recovery Tools


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 13th, 2008, 20:36 
Offline

Joined: May 2nd, 2007, 10:31
Posts: 33
We are talking platter alignment in this thread. :shock:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 13th, 2008, 21:09 
Offline

Joined: November 19th, 2007, 0:23
Posts: 84
Interesting idea that SpecOpPres brought up.
If one platter can be copied at a time to a new drive, misalignment problems can be fixed very easy.
Is that how our government does it?
I can't imagine someone stopping the drive, twisting the platters by 5 microns then check to see how well they did.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 17th, 2008, 15:55 
Offline

Joined: August 14th, 2007, 0:14
Posts: 35
do you know a suit of equirpment produced by salvationdata to help you swap head or platters? i dont know the name in english.
i watched a clip to show(guide) you how to operate it under cleanliness,you got to their web for more detail .


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: February 17th, 2008, 16:14 
Offline

Joined: November 28th, 2004, 1:54
Posts: 321
DataRecGuy wrote:
OnTrack can do this job easily.....


Actually, I think OnTrack are grossly overrated.

They are one of the "secret club" companies, and make some outrageous claims on their website.

To wit:

http://www.ontrackdatarecovery.com/data ... ews=120407


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Multi-Platter Swap to Read Platters Individually (PLEASE HEL
PostPosted: January 23rd, 2009, 9:11 
Offline

Joined: January 23rd, 2009, 9:03
Posts: 1
Hi All:

Does anyone know if MHDD can help in re-aligning two platters in a hard drive? Is there any software or techinque that can be used to recover data off a multi platter hard drive once the platters have moved?

Thanks

-pauli


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], jcarlosmor and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group