Firmware Service Area Questions

[bitor]

I have a few question concerning this topic and I hope a guru(s) can answer them.
1.) When does the firmware service area on a hard drive being accessed(read)? i.e. at boot up? wake up from sleep mode? etc..
2.) When is the firmware service area NOT accessed ?
3.) When did the mfgs start implementing this technology?
4.) Are there any drives sold today that have firmware service area just burned in a chip and NOT on the hard drive?
5.) What causes firmware service area on hard drives to go bad?
i.e. bad shutdown,too many reboots,etc...
6.) What is the space in MB or kb that this firmware service area takes up on a hard drive?
7.) Where is the location of theses firmware service area on a hard drive?
8.) When running chkdsk HDD Regen,SpinRite, etc... Does any of these software programs fix or enter in to the SA zone to fix them.
9.) When is the firmware service area written to?

This is for my own personal knowledge AND understanding concerning this topic.

Thanks again for all your help in advance,
Happy Holidays,
bitor"

Last edited by bitor on December 15th, 2008, 16:57, edited 1 time in total.

[bitor]

This was written by Doomer in another thread concerning my questions.

"4 - there is no modern HDDs with SA only inside a chip, becasue all HDDs have SMART technology and drive should update SMART parameters frequently which is possible only if SMART modules and tables located on platters
5 - Usually problems with hardware, sometimes because of code bugs in SA
6- from tens of KBs to hundreds of MBs (it depends of drive model)
"

[guru]

I have a few question concerning this topic and I hope a guru(s) can answer them.
1.) When does the firmware service area on a hard drive being accessed(read)? i.e. at boot up? wake up from sleep mode? etc..

Boot up. Most of it is loaded up into dynamic memory for speed of access, needed for defect overlay lookup

2.) When is the firmware service area NOT accessed ?

When the drive has no power :O)

3.) When did the mfgs start implementing this technology?

about 1988-89 (?)

4.) Are there any drives sold today that have firmware service area just burned in a chip and NOT on the hard drive?

Toshiba has most on PCB with a few modules on SA.

SSD drives store all info on PCB including SMART data

5.) What causes firmware service area on hard drives to go bad?
i.e. bad shutdown,too many reboots,etc...

Overflow of grown defect list, weak heads, over heating, vibration ,bearing wear, original factory contamination... Bad user handling, the list goes on and on.. In the case of Athena/Appolo drives too much lubrication on SA area

6.) What is the space in MB or kb that this firmware service area takes up on a hard drive?

Latest drives can have a megabyte+ of data.. Mostly useless factory logs

7.) Where is the location of theses firmware service area on a hard drive?

ID/OD/MD (Inner/outter/middle) Up to each vendor

8.) When running chkdsk HDD Regen,SpinRite, etc... Does any of these software programs fix or enter in to the SA zone to fix them.

NOPE

9.) When is the firmware service area written to?

When SMART parameters, Defect Lists Parameters Or Tuning Parameters are updated. Or when a DATA REC PRO gets his/her fingers on it LOL

This is for my own personal knowledge AND understanding concerning this topic.

Thanks again for all your help in advance,
Happy Holidays,
bitor"

This is very basic info... If you want more of an exact science you will need to learn for yourself

[bitor]

Greetings to all:
This is all very interesting to me. I'd like to thank all of your who have posted information here to help me understand this subject matter. Please feel free to post your options or disagreements or anything else on this matter that will help me understand this subject area.

POSTED by wiseleo


"It helps to think of hard drives same as any other computer. When you boot Windows, for example, after the computer reads the boot sector, NTLDR is used to launch it, which loads NTOSKRNL.EXE that runs the show. Well, it's a bit more complicated than that, but good enough for now. Can you wipe the boot sector or NTLDR and expect bad things not to happen?

1. Technically always, but critically during drive startup. It may be possible to start a drive with hot swap with a foreign SA in case the original SA is not readable at boot. Emphasis is on "may" and that's the basis of the "hot swap" technique. This becomes increasingly difficult with modern drives as manufacturers shift to storing unique parameters on the PCB in NVRAM. See next question for further explanation.
2. The firmware is loaded into the drive's RAM from the SA and keeps running in RAM. That's why you can start some drives with a "loader" in RAM when the SA is inaccessible. However, drive may need access to SA for other reasons.
3. For all practical purposes, since the beginning. The early drives relied on an external controller. IDE is "Integrated device electronics" and comes with a built-in controller. The reason why we can sometimes make a malfunctioning drive identify itself in BIOS when it's set to Slave but not as Master, is because the Slave drive completely bypasses its own IDE controller and uses the one from its Master. IDE is also known as EIDE and now ATA. SCSI is a different story.
4. No.
5. This is not usually a defect caused by user actions, although rapid powerup/powerdown and continuous thrashing can contribute to the problem. Unstable power is a proven drive killer. Bad sectors developed in SA will cause SA problems.
6. Varies and really not important.
7. The location varies between manufacturers. You need special tools to access it and those tools generally know where it is. Physically, it is often either at the edge or in the center. Then again, you also sometimes have extra copies elsewhere.

I don't claim to be an expert guru.

Doomer knows more about drives and how they work internally than you can imagine. Take his answers. The problem with being an expert is that there are too many ways to answer a question, especially when they contradict each other. I have that problem with MCP exams "I know the real answer is X which can vary with Service Pack W, but they don't expect me to know Y and are probably basing this on Service Pack U, so the answer they are expecting is probably Z". That's why he requested clarification, I believe.

I would like to suggest that this thread be moved to Hard Drive Technology subforum.

[bitor]

continued for Doomer


1. When drive needs to access it. Basically after each spin up, after each error and during SMART scans
2. When drive is not spinning or when drives is busy (reading user area)
3. Which technology?
7. It depends of the model
8. No
9. Originally before and during selftest on a factory


Thank you Doomer