7200.11 1tb barely used, no spin-up: Any experts willing?

[Howie_S]

I have spent hours researching but feel a question here among experts might be my next step before trying to become an expert myself:

A Seagate 1tb FreeAgent Desktop external drive used only for a few weeks on Win XP system stopped spinning, and not recognized by system. Prior to total failure, the drive seem to spin up and down quite frequently during while connected to computer, when computer was running, but sitting idle. During Tech support call to Seagate, I was surprised that they gave me permission to open up the drive and attempt data recovery myself, and they will still honor the warranty if I sent back the drive-in pieces !

Not realizing there were historical problems with the 7200.11 drives and possibly the firmware/PCBs, I thought the problem might just be the external enclosure's circuitry, so I removed the drive from the enclosure to find it is:

Barracuda 7200.11 1000 Gbytes
Model: ST31000340AS (B)
Firmware: SD81
Date Code: 08494
(It was purchased September 2008, but never opened or used until a year later, October 2009.)

I attached an external SATA-to-USB adapter and external power supply to the SATA connectors, but the drive does not spin at all.

I realize there is a lot of technical problem-solving information in the forum, including connecting via RS232 adapters, etc. I *could* study all of this, and learn it, but it would not be cost/time practical. I was hoping some of you forum experts could narrow down the choices and potential options to take, since I have seen conflicting information regarding the firmware problems and whether it applies to a drive that simply will not spin up, or whether this drive needs to have jumper cables connected before it spins up, etc. etc. I would like to take a path of least resistance, and avoid highly technical problem-solving like assembling external jumper block adapters and having to learn a lot of rather complex "one time use" technical information unless it's actually a likely solution to my problem.

The drive DOES have private client information on it that I would *prefer* not to lose, and would definitely prefer not to send back to Seagate in its current state.

Your advice, feedback and expertise > next steps for me to take or try, will be GREATLY APPRECIATED !!

Regards,
Howie

[jono-ats]

If it is not spinning up, it's a hardware problem -- PCB or motor.

[Howie_S]

Thank you for the speedy first reply. Is there a way I can isolate whether it is PCB or Motor? Can the motor be spun up directly (with PCB removed?) - and if so, what has to be connected, and to which contacts?

[jono-ats]

Put your ear next to it. Power it on. If you don't hear anything at all, it is PCB.

Forget about trying to spin up the motor - you are likely to do harm.

[jono-ats]

If it is not spinning up, it's a hardware problem -- PCB or motor.

[Howie_S]

There is absolutely NO sound in the least when attached to power supply (via external SATA connector power supply, verified working on other SATA drives.)

1) Without swapping out the PCB (providing I could or should try to find a replacement PCB) is there ANY way to know whether it is the motor or the PCB that has failed?

2) Does this symptom--the lack of power spin up--absolutely exclude bad firmware as a cause of problem?

[jono-ats]

1) No sound = PCB
2) Yes

[Howie_S]

Ok so what is suggested for my next step?

[jono-ats]

What you can do by yourself has already been covered (multiple times) on this forum.

The suggested next step is to start looking!

[fzabkar]

A common problem with external drives is that they are sometimes killed by an overvoltage from an incorrect AC-DC adapter. In this case the TVS (Transient Voltage Suppression) diode on the PCB sacrifices itself by going short circuit, thereby protecting the rest of the electronics. Desoldering this diode, or snipping it out with side cutters, will get your drive going again, albeit without protection on the affected supply rail.

This site will help you identify the components on the PCB:

http://hddscan.com/doc/HDD_from_inside.html

Before doing anything, I would measure the resistances between ground and each of the +5V and +12V supply rails.

Here is a pinout of the power connector:

http://pinouts.ru/Power/sata-power_pinout.shtml

It may help if you upload a close-up photo of your PCB, component side.

[dick]

Spoonfeeding..........To really test whether the drive spins you need to forget the external usb connection!
Connect the drive directly to a pc motherboard and psu. Switch on and listen to see if it spins.
Or does the pc not power on at all?

[Howie_S]

I'm here asking for assistance, and while I do not claim to be an "expert", I have spent many hours reading hundreds of posts, and I definitely understand much of what I read. The user named "dick" didn't seem to read my initial post here - and his "spoonfeeding" quip is unjustified: In my original post, I state that I removed the drive completely from the USB enclosure, and connected it directly to a separate power supply, via (15-pin) SATA power connector. The drive does not spin, nor make ANY sound whatsoever. (My power supply is not a PC PSU - it's a switching power adapter that is part of a Vantec SATA/IDE to USB 2.0 Adapter, that I have used many times and verified functionality. Can be seen at: http://www.vantecusa.com/front/product/show_pro_image/266/2

Moving on, fzabkar, thank you for the more detailed info. I have also read many of your other, similar posts. I am attaching a photo of the PCB, with what I believe to be the TVS diodes marked in red border. (Not the very best photo, but if you need clearer, I can re-take in daylight with less blur.)

Using a digital multimeter, I have tested using the diode mode check as well as ohmmeter function: (And just to be clear, this testing was done with no power supplied - PSU NOT connected.)

Diode test mode voltage shows 1.2 volts when multimeter contacts are not connected to anything.
Testing the 5 volt rail TVS, diode test voltage 'drops' .57 to .63 volts (reversing anode/catholde, it equals 1 volt)
Testing the 12 volt rail TVS, diode test voltage 'drops' .49 to .71 volts (reversing anode/catholde, it equals 1 volt)

I also tested with ohmmeter function, however because this multimeter has a diode check mode, specifically designed to check diodes, the ohmmeter could be using "very low test voltage" for its resistance testing feature, and thus not able to correctly measure diode function in that mode. (I read simplified comparison of diode testing technique here: http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_3/2.html )

With that disclaimer, testing the TVS using ohmmeter:
Testing the TVS on 5volt side, reading is 25.5 kilo ohms, and exactly the same if reversing anode/cathode position.
Testing the TVS on 12volt side, reading is 29 kilo ohms, flipping anode/catholde the other way, it's 20 kilo ohms.

I do not know how to interpret these readings. I still am unclear which condition a TVS is in when normally functioning, versus when "broken" or "fails" by a surge event. As I understood it from reading, the diode normally does NOT let current flow through it unless it encounters a surge, at which time it shorts the current to ground directly, thereby forcing the current away and preventing any more power to reach the rest of the circuitry. Is this correct? Otherwise, the technique of removing a TVS diode would not work because it would leave an open circuit. The latter description would describe a "fuse" not a TVS diode (correct?)

So, if you can interpret the results of my above testing, that would be great. Also, I saw mention of "zero-ohm jumpers" but I am unclear whether they might play a part in my situation.

My ongoing thanks and appreciation for your efforts!

[cragv]

A common problem with external drives is that they are sometimes killed by an overvoltage from an incorrect AC-DC adapter. In this case the TVS (Transient Voltage Suppression) diode on the PCB sacrifices itself by going short circuit, thereby protecting the rest of the electronics. Desoldering this diode, or snipping it out with side cutters, will get your drive going again, albeit without protection on the affected supply rail.
...
It may help if you upload a close-up photo of your PCB, component side.

Hi guys, I have a feeling this drive may have suffered from a shorted TVS diode also - can someone confirm this for me?


(Click for higher-res pic if necessary)

Its on a Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 500GB drive (ST3500630AS, FW: 3.AFM). I'm planning on removing the diode today and testing the PCB on a known & tested healthy PSU. If everything is ship shape, I'll reattach it to the drive and attempt to image it on a disk imager. Just posting here for some confirmation I'm on the right track!

Thanks very much!

[cragv]

Hi guys, please ignore my last. I hadn't yet been approved for unmoderated posting on this forum when I posted the above, but now that I have I cannot edit or delete the above. For answers to my question (rather than hijacking the OP's thread here), please see my thread on the same topic (with answer/solution). Cheers (and sorry to have hi-jacked!)

[Howie_S]

With help of user fzabkar on here, I have been able to conclude that in my case, the TVS diodes are not the cause of my problem. (I wish it were that easy )

That brings me to ask two more things:

1) If I have access to identical drive PCB, will I absolutely (or likely) have to transfer any of the chips or data from "bad" PCB (adaptive info?) to the new PCB? (If so, this will not be worth the time and effort I fear.)

2) Looking at the current PCB, the data contacts for where the PCB interfaces with the rest of the drive itself look almost heat-damaged: They do not look like shiny, gold plated contacts that I would expect from a circuit board of this type. I'm including a close-up photo. What do you guys think of the way these contacts look? Is this normal? Does it suggest anything about my particular situation?

Thanks.

[harddrivespecialist]

1)absolutely
2)It is normal.

[fzabkar]

Those contacts connect to the read preamp and voice coil. If they bother you, you can always shine them up by gently rubbing them with a soft white pencil eraser. The spindle motor contacts are opposite the lower left corner of the SMOOTH motor controller ... which I still think looks a little dark.

The serial EEPROM is the Winbond W25X40LNEG chip at the top LHS:

http://www.winbond-usa.com/products/Nex ... L_80Ld.pdf

[dick]

The user named "dick" didn't seem to read my initial post here - and his "spoonfeeding" quip is unjustified: In my original post, I state that I removed the drive completely from the USB enclosure, and connected it directly to a separate power supply, via (15-pin) SATA power connector. The drive does not spin, nor make ANY sound whatsoever.

On the contrary "Howie" I suggest you go back and read your first post as you never described the test I suggested to you!

I attached an external SATA-to-USB adapter and external power supply to the SATA connectors, but the drive does not spin at all.

You need to connect the drive directly to a motherboard using a sata data cable because some drives are configured to spin up on receiving a signal. You show some awareness of that fact but you never mentioned you had carried out the test. Also if the computer had not even powered on that would have been an indicator a tvs had failed and fused. All good advice I think!
As for spoonfeeding......when it comes to the TVS all you are doing is going over and over old ground. Any quick search would produce all the info you need on that particular subject.

As a test I would still suggest you connect the drive as I had suggested previously and whilst powering on listen for any signs the drive is attempting to spin. These sounds can sometimes be very weak! The results from this simple test might help to decide which is the next step forward.

[Howie_S]

Thank you to everyone who took the time to contribute useful information. It's especially nice to find generosity in a forum from people who have neither ego issues, nor axes to grind. So often, self-made "experts" feel a need to belittle newcomers, or jealously guard what they come to view as their own private club.

I have decided that further effort to get this drive working again is simply not worth the data that might be on it.

While this is a completely separate issue and topic, (that I have not searched for yet in this or other forums,) if anyone has an opinion (or, better yet, actual fact-based information,) regarding any risk of data remaining on a drive returned via RMA to Seagate being accessed or misused by their technicians, I would appreciate your feedback.

Thanks.

[pepe]

Hi,

I don't think they have time to look at your data considering the failure rate of seagates these days
However If you are anxious about it U may take a strong magnet and move around the drive top and bottom, that will do the trick.

pepe