Samsung HM161HI - fried TLS chip

[jazz2999uk]

Hi Guys,

This is my first post on the forum so I shall attempt to be as clear as possible, not to ask *too* many stupid questions and thank you all in advance for any suggestions you might have!

I have a problem with a Samsung HM161HI 2.5" SATA that a friend sent to me after they accidentally knocked a glass of water onto their laptop, which promptly turned off with a pop and a smell of burning plastic!

Basically, the hard drive would no longer appear in the bios...although the laptop would still power on (when dried!) and apparently no water had got down as far the hard drive. Knowing that Samsung drives are particularly vulnerable to power surges/disturbances, I immediately took off the PCB and, sure enough, the TLS2505 chip has fried (see attached picture). I understand this TI chip to be the spindle and voice coil controller?

I have sourced a donor drive in preparation for any repairs that might be attempted and have manged to get a match that is identical and within two months of the manufacturing date of the damaged HDD.

So, my questions are as follows:

1) I presume that any kind of PCB swap (either hot or cold) is NOT going to work with this drive, as the firmware is stored within the MCU? and I would also need to transfer certain modules from the SA (an option not available to me at present)...

2) Would a spin down, hot swap and subsequent recalibration attempt (using MHDD) with a readout of the Samsung's terminal give me any useful clues?

3) Assuming that the MCU and memory were not destroyed in the same power surge that wrecked the TLS chip, would it be possible to transplant the healthy TLS2505 onto the original board, check for damaged surrounding components and see if I can get the drive working again? (I do have sufficient equipment and experience not to do one of those horrendous soldering jobs where you see about 10 pins bridged and the person is asking why it hasn't worked...)

4)What is the likelihood that the damage has spread beyond the TLS chip, deeper into the drive, potentially wrecking the preamp, etc.?

I look forward to any comments that you might have!

Many thanks,

John

Attachments

Fried TLS2505 chip.

[BlackST]

Answers :

1) Yes and no - it depends on other variables at play and what happened inside tha HDA.

2) No.

3) Not many chances but this isn't gonna stopping...

4) 30-50%.

[jazz2999uk]

Hi BlackST,

Thanks for the prompt response and information. As they already have a full backup of their data and this is a learning curve for me - I decided to cold swap the good board to the bad body, power up and get a terminal readout. This is what I got:

-------------------------

*PA VID=0007 PN=0000 Rev=0004
*PA VID=0007 PN=0000 Rev=0004
PSL
U
S_0Shock Sensor Circuit Enabled
SO_1
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=1 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=2 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=3 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=4 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=5 RPM=0
SP Startup Fail
SO_2 C=5,A=0,S=1,RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #1/61
CLA Fail
CSRTY=1 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=2 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=3 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=4 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=5 RPM=0
SP Startup Fail
SO_2 C=5,A=0,S=2,RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=1 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=2 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=3 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=4 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=5 RPM=0
SP Startup Fail
SO_2 C=5,A=0,S=3,RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=1 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=2 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=3 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #1/35
CLA Fail
CSRTY=4 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=5 RPM=0
SP Startup Fail
SO_2 C=5,A=0,S=4,RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #1/59
CLA Fail
CSRTY=1 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=2 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=3 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=4 RPM=0
Init RPM=0
IS=4
CLA Stuck
CLA #0/31
CLA Fail
CSRTY=5 RPM=0
SP Startup Fail
SO_2 C=5,A=0,S=5,RPM=0
SO_3 R Sp Err
SpinUp Fail
SoUL!
PK_4 C: 0 H:0
LED 1703
LED 1703 (repeated)

-------------------------

Not being knowledgeable about the Samsung Terminal - can anyone tell me what 'CLA Fail'/'CLA Stuck' and the error code 'LED 1703' imply?

Many thanks!

[BlackST]

Implies that your drive needs pro service.

The platters are not spinning at all or no speed sense + at least 2 other serious problems.

Can't give you further details, sorry.

[fzabkar]

Maybe the heads landed on a smooth section of the platters, in which case the drive may have a stiction fault.

This thread may interest you (it has a couple of success stories):
samsung-portable-500gb-dead-t14351.html#p99445

[drc]

For the purposes of having an alternate viewpoint, you will probably find that 99.9999999999999% of posters here would strongly recommend against "banging it on the table" as a reasonable solution to your problem.

I think Franc should have a big red signature that says "Warning: I am not a data recovery professional and most of them probably disagree with what I'm saying" so then people would at least not get the wrong idea.

[fzabkar]

For the purposes of having an alternate viewpoint, you will probably find that 99.9999999999999% of posters here would strongly recommend against "banging it on the table" as a reasonable solution to your problem.

I think Franc should have a big red signature that says "Warning: I am not a data recovery professional and most of them probably disagree with what I'm saying" so then people would at least not get the wrong idea.

"Most of them" are motivated purely by self interest. I, OTOH, am not a DR guy, so I stand to gain nothing. People need to warned about the FUD that pervades this industry, and I have no qualms in doing so.

People should also be made aware that they have arrived at a place where arrogance is a virtue and altruism is despised. Where else would you find a group of people who despise someone for helping others? And moreover, this is the only place in my 15 years on the Net where I've ever been abused by someone (a regular) for offering him advice.

So you'll have to excuse me if I doubt the veracity, or sincerity, of any advice offered by the regulars.

[drc]

Well, there you go, OP. Anyone who tells you that banging your hard drive on the table is a bad idea is just spreading FUD. Lucky for you your white knight has come to your rescue. Have fun with that.

[BlackST]

If it doesn't work, relax and sing along , time for Karaoke :

THE PLATTERS (nomen omen) : SMOKE GETS IN YOUR EYES - HDDGURU REMIX

They asked me how I knew
my know-how was true
Oh, I of course replied
Something here inside cannot be denied

They said someday you'll find
All who ask are blind
Oh, when your drive's on fire
You must realize
Smoke gets in your eyes

So I chaffed them and I gaily laughed
To think they could doubt my advice
Yet today your data has flown away
You're without your porn

Now laughing guys deride
Tears you can not hide
Oh, so we smile and say
When a hard drive dies
Smoke gets in your eyes
Smoke gets in your eyes


Some humour always make a day better

[HDD Spaz]

Maybe the heads landed on a smooth section of the platters, in which case the drive may have a stiction fault.

This thread may interest you (it has a couple of success stories):
samsung-portable-500gb-dead-t14351.html#p99445

IF YOUR DATA IS IMPORTANT DO NOT LISTEN TO FZABKAR!!!! He is talking like a FUD (FUD from Scotland)

He has proven he does not know anything about HDD and data recovery.

I'm just wondering how the heads have landed on a smooth part of the platter as apposed to the rough parts of the platters? You will find all platters are smooth unless they have had some table action.

If you bang you disk on the table you will have lots of rough parts of the platters and no data. Just get a free quote from a DR company in your area.

[BlackST]

Where are smooth parts ? Isn't it called HARD drive for a reason ?
Uhm... fud... hard... better go back to work ...

[pepe]

I, OTOH, am not a DR guy, so I stand to gain nothing.

U gain nothing, they may loose all...

pepe

[fzabkar]

I'm just wondering how the heads have landed on a smooth part of the platter as apposed to the rough parts of the platters? You will find all platters are smooth unless they have had some table action.

Either you are technically ignorant, or just facetious. For the sake of your customers, I hope it's the latter.

See "Disk Drive Science":
http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/7803/5/DiskD ... e_copy.pdf

"One of the consequences of very smooth disks and heads however is stiction - the
tendency for two surfaces that are smooth at an atomic level to weld together when
they come into contact."

"Managing stiction is a major challenge at low flying heights and it has been tackled in a number of ways. One is to deliberately roughen a “landing zone”, an annular area in the centre of the disk, onto which the head is allowed to land."

I'm not suggesting that stiction isn't a serious problem. In fact the above article warns of heads being ripped away by motor torque, or particles being detached from the platters. But the testimonials of many people suggest that this is an unlikely consequence, and the most likely outcome is complete success. In fact the success stories in this forum, and my own experience with an IBM drive, attest to this. Whether someone can continue to trust a drive after recovering from a stiction fault is something for them to decide. For that matter, my own drive still works.

[BlackST]

Then some WD40 or olive oil can help. Somewhere on the net there were also stories like that, they can't be wrong if it worked for them. Really ?
Haven't read (yet) about the use of other lube used on some more fun situations

[guru]

Because the spindle motor IC has fried the head would be left somewhere near the middle of the platter. If you listen closely to the HDA you may be able to hear a pulsing sound.

As we are also talking "tribology" now an easy way to think of it is:-

Disk / head stiction is like two flat panes of glass put together. If you have ever tried it you will find that it is very hard to separate them.

The latest drives with load/unload ramps to not have a laser bump texture on the inner landing zone just like the M7 generation :O)

[quasimodo]

"Most of them" are motivated purely by self interest. I, OTOH, am not a DR guy, so I stand to gain nothing. People need to warned about the FUD that pervades this industry, and I have no qualms in doing so.

People should also be made aware that they have arrived at a place where arrogance is a virtue and altruism is despised. Where else would you find a group of people who despise someone for helping others? And moreover, this is the only place in my 15 years on the Net where I've ever been abused by someone (a regular) for offering him advice. So you'll have to excuse me if I doubt the veracity, or sincerity, of any advice offered by the regulars.

Fzabkar,

I think that you are going a little to far. If you and some other members have some personal issues then you should work this out in private. Also, please do not speak for the entire forum, Thank you!!! It appears that you have a lot of free time on your hands. And it appears that you like to help people. Which in itself is admirable, however I believe that you fundamentally misunderstand the purpose of this forum. The purpose of this forum has always been for data recovery professionals to exchange thoughts, ideas and philosophies and to assist each other by shearing some information and providing a second opinion. This forum was never intended for end users, however if you look at the previous posts of the last years you will notice that 80% - 90% of all users coming to this forum have received some advice. Granted, it may have not always been what they wanted to hear, but then that's life. You constantly complain about the forum and the senior member, but at the same time you keep coming back. You appear to be a sharp guy, but your Ego is humongous. The Psychological self satisfaction that you reach from trying to debate with some of the seniors is an illusion. Yes, you seam to have a good understanding of electronics, but you can believe me when I say that some of the members here would quickly put you to shame.


I do however have a few suggestions since you are smart and vibrant guy with lots of energy.

1. Why not start a support forum?
2. If you must play righteous man with a cause, why not something of real substance. Why not challenge big industrial conglomerates for their slave labors, or Government for Currupt politicians and pretending to help the people. Why not challenge Capitalism, Communism, Socialism, etc..

Then dear Fzabkar.... you can be my hero too

[dick]

I was wondering if there should be a DIY forum so people who want some advice and help can get it. IT MUST COME WITH A HEALTH WARNING that any advice acted upon is at the owners risk!

I think fzabkar could administer that forum as well!

@fzabkar Got to say I enjoy reading many of your posts and it is clear you have a technical and analytic mind but sometimes I think you waver, lose your way a little.

[HDD Spaz]

I'm just wondering how the heads have landed on a smooth part of the platter as apposed to the rough parts of the platters? You will find all platters are smooth unless they have had some table action.

Either you are technically ignorant, or just facetious. For the sake of your customers, I hope it's the latter.

I'm actually both but I still know more about HDD and Data Recovery than you. My customers are quite happy, my bank account can prove this.

Lets stop this childish behaviour.


PS. I've experienced real FUD. Have you?

[BlackST]

What fud ? Scottish one ? Great !

[HDD Spaz]

Yes.