Should I RMA my Toshiba MK2565GSX

[Padishar]

I replaced the HD in a Toshiba Satellite Pro laptop about 9 months ago with a new Toshiba MK2565GSX because the old (smaller) drive died. This was running well until recently when the machine refused to boot. I was able to use a linux boot CD to access the drive and copy any important data before using mhdd to have a look at the drive.

ID and EID both take approx 2 seconds to respond and reading the SMART info takes at least 3. If I try a scan then the first block of the scan is almost always marked as >500ms whereever I start the scan. Does this indicate a particular problem with the drive? I've never seen mhdd behave in this way before.

When I started, the SMART info said 73 reallocated sectors and 5 pending sectors. I let a full scan complete and it showed 4 UNCs (1 early on and 3 in a fairly close group near the end along with a few <150ms). I then did scan+remap of the areas with the UNCs and they were remapped ok. A subsequent full scan completed without UNCs and only the few <150ms (and the 1 initial >500ms).

This is the current SMART info:
Att # 1 : Read error rate : 100 100 0
Att # 2 : Throughput performance : 100 100 0
Att # 3 : Spin up time : 100 100 1194
Att # 4 : Number of spin-up times : 100 100 741
Att # 5 : Reallocated sectors count : 100 100 73
Att # 7 : Seek error rate : 100 100 0
Att # 8 : Seek time performance : 100 100 0
Att # 9 : Power-on time : 98 98 844
Att # 10 : Spin-up retries : 114 100 0
Att # 12 : Start/stop count : 100 100 416
Att # 191 : Unknown : 100 100 362
Att # 192 : Power-off retract count : 100 100 42
Att # 193 : Load/unload cycle count : 100 100 1884
Att # 194 : HDA Temperature : 100 100 36
Att # 196 : Reallocate event count : 100 100 62
Att # 197 : Current pending sectors : 100 100 0
Att # 198 : Offline scan UNC sectors : 100 100 0
Att # 199 : Ultra ATA CRC Error Rate : 200 253 0
Att # 220 : Disk shift : 100 100 18
Att # 222 : Loaded hours : 99 99 795
Att # 223 : Load retry count : 100 100 0
Att # 224 : Load friction : 100 100 0
Att # 226 : Load-in time : 100 100 262
Att # 240 : Unknown : 100 100 0

Given the 73 reallocated sectors and the strange initial delay in the ID, EID, SMART and SCAN, is it worth trying to reinstall the OS and see if it works or is this drive likely to fail soon? Given it is only 9 months old, am I better off just trying to get Toshiba to acknowledge it as faulty and get a replacement?

Many thanks,

[Vulcan]

There is one inconsistency comparing the current SMART data to the list of events, but to answer your overall question...

am I better off just trying to get Toshiba to acknowledge it as faulty and get a replacement?

I would say yes - I wouldn't want to trust that drive, given its SMART data. However, although there is clear evidence that the drive isn't perfect, you might have a challenge convincing them that the drive is faulty.

At least you managed to recover your data from the drive

Good luck with negotiating a replacement drive. You might find it useful to read the Google study on drives in their data centres from a few years ago. It showed a strong correlation between a non-zero count of reallocated sectors, and subsequent premature drive failure (and that fits with my experiences with drives over the past many years too), but drives are designed with many spare sectors, so on its own, its difficult to argue that a drive with a few reallocated sectors is actually faulty. You might be "encouraged" by Toshiba to wait for an actual SMART "failure" (i.e. threshold reached), or other clearer (less ambiguous) indication of failure - in that case, quoting the above Google study may be helpful. IANAL, but in case you're not aware, remember there is a difference between a manufacturer's warranty, and your actual consumer rights in the UK.

[Padishar]

Thanks for the speedy response.

What is the inconsistency in the SMART info you mention? The 5 pending sectors but only 4 UNCs that got remapped on the scan? I presume that either one of the pending sectors got sucessfully read so was removed from the pending list, or I may be misremembering the exact series of scans/remaps I did and there were actually 5 UNCs that got remapped in total. Should the reallocated sectors count have increased when I did the remap or is that only for remaps the drive decides to do during normal operation?

Do you have any thoughts about the long delays for the various commands? When I use mhdd on other machines I don't see anything like it.

I'm having trouble actually working out if I can return it to Toshiba or if I would have to return it to the place I bought it from (Amazon). The various links I've found for checking drive warranty etc don't appear to work. I've also looked for info on Amazon's site and haven't found anything helpful yet.

I guess it wont hurt to try reinstalling from the recovery disks and see how it behaves. Is there anything you'd recommend doing before I reinstall?

Thanks,

[Vulcan]

@Padishar:

Unfortunately I don't have time for answering lots of supplementary questions, and the inconsistency doesn't change my previous comments.

I'm having trouble actually working out if I can return it to Toshiba or if I would have to return it to the place I bought it from (Amazon). The various links I've found for checking drive warranty etc don't appear to work. I've also looked for info on Amazon's site and haven't found anything helpful yet.

As I said before, IANAL, but from my previous experience and investigation - your entitlements are different depending on whether you are using your legal rights, which are against the retailer (possibly with a credit card company having joint liability), or using any "warranty" provided by the manufacturer (which is actually optional under UK law). In your case, personally, I would start with contacting the manufacturer, as sometimes I see them offering service beyond their strict responsibilities, as a goodwill gesture.

This subject is heading off-topic for this forum, so I'll just give you the link below and then stop here.

If you need extra advice on UK consumer law and your rights, you can get free advice from the government-funded Consumer Direct organisation, whose website is now:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentc ... /index.htm

and from Citizens Advice Bureaux.

[Padishar]

Thanks again for your time and advice, it is much appreciated. Since the drive only cost 30 quid or so, it may not be worth me spending a lot of time and/or effort to arrange a replacement as it could well be cheaper to just buy another. However, I will definitely send an email or two to Toshiba to test the water.

I'm most interested in any information about this bit of my first message:

ID and EID both take approx 2 seconds to respond and reading the SMART info takes at least 3. If I try a scan then the first block of the scan is almost always marked as >500ms whereever I start the scan. Does this indicate a particular problem with the drive? I've never seen mhdd behave in this way before.

...as I've never seen mhdd take more than a fraction of a second to sucessfully return the ID nor seen it consistently report the first sector of a scan as being very slow...

Thanks,

[Vulcan]

I'm most interested in any information about this bit of my first message

IMHO you won't get an detailed diagnosis unless a suitable engineer has that drive on their bench, but...

ID and EID both take approx 2 seconds to respond and reading the SMART info takes at least 3. If I try a scan then the first block of the scan is almost always marked as >500ms whereever I start the scan. Does this indicate a particular problem with the drive? I've never seen mhdd behave in this way before.

Considering what those have in common (think where the drive gets its SMART data and Identify Drive response data from ), then I'm not at all surprised to see such behaviour on a failing drive. I've seen something similar many times.

[Padishar]

Thanks again. I've now tried restoring the laptop using the recovery DVDs but despite the HD being accessible via mhdd and linux, it fails to detect the hard disk and wont allow the install so I definitely consider the drive faulty in some way. Now I just need to wait to see what Toshiba say...

Thanks

[Vulcan]

Since you have already recovered your data, I'm glad that the drive problem is becoming more severe. That should now make it easier for you to show that there is a drive fault and get a replacement.

Good luck!