Is IBAS conclusion right or wrong?

[pelle2004]

Hi,

I have tried a number of ways to get a 80G IBM Deskstar recovered.

After practice a PCB and Head replacement without any success I finally
thought that there is no meaning of trying on my own, better send it to a specialist
who is capable of recovering the data.

I then sent the disk to IBAS. Before sending the disk I describe the symptom with
the continuous clicking sound and that the disk has been target for various attempts of
recover the data by replacement of parts. IBAS replied, after the description, that the
chances of recovering the data are fairly good on that type of IBM/Hitachi disks.

But after IBAS had investigated the disk they returned the disk with the conclusion that
the Service Track is damaged and the drive is not accessible. That was not any new
information for me, by reading this forum I come to that conclusion before I sent the drive.
They also mention that the plates are in good mechanical condition.

I recently asked Hitachi if they have any documentation on data recovery. They replied that
they don't have any documentation on recovering data and they recommended instead sending
the disk to a recovery firm.

That dose not seem to be any idea as it already has been at IBAS.

My question is if there are any professionals on this forum that is of another opinion than IBAS
and have a way of restore the SA track and get the disk accessible for recovering.

Disk type is IC35L080AVVA07
See also my thread before sending the drive to IBAS
hard-disk-drives-repair-and-data-recovery-f1/help-needed-ibm-deskstar-07n8084-clicking-noise-t8494.html

/BR
Pelle

[pepe]

Hi,

I don't know much about IBAS's capabilities, but the procedures that perceeded sending the drive to them doesn't make this work to much desirable to any DR company I am sure. No one likes to clean up things after others, so do I, and I have a feeling IBAS thinks the same...
However there can be many things making this job hard or even impossible. One of these is a problem with the PCB that it does turn on writing when in should not, doing severe data corruption all over the surface. The more the drive was run in this condition, the more severe the damage is.
Even if one manages to correct the problems in the SA, the data surface might be damaged by the inadvertent writing.
This is just one possibility.

pepe

[pelle2004]

Hi pepe,

Thanks for your reply,

IBAS is a Norwegian company, has been in the recovery business for 29 years. On there web site they claim that they have the highest recovery rate on the market. In 2006 Kroll Ontrack bought IBAS. Before I sent the disk my opinion was that they where on the top level of recovering.

I can agree with you that trying to recover a disk by your self without having full knowledge doesn't make it easier for a professional recovery company. I learned that before I contacted IBAS. The status of the disk was clearly stated for IBAS and they still replayed that there is a good change of recovering the data.

I guess the data tracks are not damaged. The disk did not failed during normal use. The PC was shut down and when returned next day it was on with the clicking noise. That means it failed to go power off or that it of some reason started by it self.

Replaced PCB works fine on donor disk. Replaced head-stack I don't know if it is ok. The clicking sound is very much like the normal initial head movement but interrupted back to the parking place (I think). It is not that double click noise which some people say is the NVRAM. I have not let the disk be on more than necessary, but it seems to be an forever ongoing clicking.

Any second opinion on the chances of recovering the SA track are much welcome. I'm kind of keen on getting the SA track restored. IBAS charged me 800 USD for the analyze which I will claim in return if the SA track can be restored and the disk could go on line again.

/Pelle

[hddbug]

Hi
I suggest try Vogon International ( http://www.vogon-data-recovery.com/ )
Though it has been acquired by Ontrack , they have most comprehensive technology to recovery data from such cases. They have reverse engineered most of the firmwares & logic cards , possibly they are best one in industry.
Thanks
Hddbug

[Doomer]

If the drive was dropped (you can feel much abnormal vibration) that could be an issue
If drive wasn't dropped and you 100% sure the head stack what you put into the drive during xplant is compatible with the original head stack and you proved the PCB is good, that is really bad situation: Hitachi/IBM drives have a problem - sometimes read channel is making glitches and heads starting clicking with opened write gate. That means they overwriting data under them. If you got this situation - there is no chance to get data back and the most nasty thing - you cannot find out this situation was happened.
If you think the drive could have another problem you could try to make hotswap to get original translator and user data but you need to prepare donor properly (you need to use original NVRAM and thus you need to replace SA location on donor drive)

[pelle2004]

Hi,

By your replies I doesn't seem total impossible to recover the data. The disk has not been dropped and it is not vibrating more than a normal disk. The write glitches in the PCB doesn't seem to be very friendly when it comes to recovering the data.

Dose the wright glitches occur inside the head-stack/pre-amp or at the connector between the main PCB and the head-stack. It is probably valid to verify the status of the replace head-stack, if it is working or not.

Before proceeding with either a hot-swap or contacting Vogon it probably good to ask for a more detail report from IBAS stating how damage the SA track is. It is interesting to know the level of failure also to know how much effort the really put in.

Thanks for your replies.


/Pelle

[Doomer]

Hi,
Before proceeding with either a hot-swap or contacting Vogon it probably good to ask for a more detail report from IBAS stating how damage the SA track is. It is interesting to know the level of failure also to know how much effort the really put in.

I'm on HDD recovery market about 8 years
Two years in North America
I know only about 30-50 people in the world which I can call "HDD Guru", all of them from ex-USSR. I didn't see ANY person originally from North America or Europe (not from ex-USSR) which I could call "HDD Guru". Maybe I didn't have a chance to meet one.
Most of HDD recovery companies knowledge based on software and information which you can by on the market (PC3K, HRT, Salvation Dat etc.). So if they do not know something - DR companies do not know. Here is the limit.
Sometimes you cannot buy information - you need to dig it by yourself
Sometimes to fix a drive (and understand what's wrong) you need to know more than you can buy

I tell you secret - I cannot see any information on this forum what could be useful for me
I didn't say it's not interesting to be here

Sorry for offtop, these are just my thoughts, I want to say - this is very low possibility what you will get correct information about your drive from IBAS

[pelle2004]

Hi,

Yes that maybe is the case, IBAS connect whatever recovery software they normally use and tried what they used to do. That didn't help so they sent the drive back and start working on something else which the could be charge full recover cost fee.

What bother me is that I paid 800 USD for the investigation. I did that on the information they gave me on the recover rate was fairly good.

Anyway I will ask IBAS for the details even if it probably don't have so much to tell.

BR
/Pelle

[jono-ats]

$800 USD seems like a fortune to pay for a diagnosis not leading to a recovery. For example, we charge $49 for a single drive to render a diagnosis if we can't get the data.

Some of the older Hitachi / IBM drives have a firmware glitch that causes the speed to change from 5400 to 7200 RPM. They released a firmware patch which addresses this problem. However, the patch won't do much good after the fact.

If this problem occurs and you write data to the drive at 7200 RPM, you'll likely make a mess of the firmware and the LBA areas. Even a hotswap may not work to fix it.

I don't think the former USSR has a monopoly on "Gurus" but Doomer is certainly right that much knowledge is very hard won, and is found pretty much only through R&D. The process of data recovery is a continual exercise in trying different things and documenting what works and what doesn't. It takes a lot of creativity to solve many technical issues and helpful knowledge is usually kept secret by the manufacturers.

Jon

[dmarques]

Well, from the business point of view, that is a very interesting way of working, charging 800 USD to analyse a drive that they knew at the beggining it would be a hard job.
How do you know that they even looked at the drive? If you send your drive into a company that works with no data-no payment, I would believe they would say that the drive is not recoverable, but in your case with IBAS I have my questions...

[dick]

Well, from the business point of view, that is a very interesting way of working, charging 800 USD to analyse a drive that they knew at the beggining it would be a hard job.
How do you know that they even looked at the drive? If you send your drive into a company that works with no data-no payment, I would believe they would say that the drive is not recoverable, but in your case with IBAS I have my questions...

Thats what i was thinking. A Fat western european lab has no hunger to become too deeply involved.

Who needs to be an experienced Recovery Guru if you can charge $800 without even recovering? I wonder how much they bothered to invest in time and money?

From my experience of time spent in Russia in the 1990's I found the engineers and technicians in general well educated, with very high technical skills. Quite amazing considering the lack of available resources during that time.
I think if you can find a recommended recovery lab in those parts and can agree a fair price for a completed recovery you might still have a chance. If they fail then at least you know you gave it your best shot.

[dmarques]

I don't know where are you located, but I do know that are some very experienced people in Europe on this business as well, not only in Russia.
So try one of a good european DR companies with no data-no fee guarantee.
At least you know someone tried.

[pepe]

Hi,

I suspect the key to this $800 diagnosis is that U actually opened the drive and did some tricks inside. I emphasis that no one will like to clean up things after others, and this is probably the same with IBAS, however it is not nice to take $800 for probably doing nothing.
We work with no diagnosis fee provided that the drive was not abused by others in any way: no torn labels, deformed screws or visible changes to the PCB.
I take some small diagnosis fee if one of these occur. There were many cases when the owner or others were trying to recover and messed up something inside, or had intentionally hidden some tricks inside. I don't want to spend valuable working hours to discover these for free, customers must understand this. They mostly do.

pepe

[craig6928]

Hi,
Before proceeding with either a hot-swap or contacting Vogon it probably good to ask for a more detail report from IBAS stating how damage the SA track is. It is interesting to know the level of failure also to know how much effort the really put in.

I'm on HDD recovery market about 8 years
Two years in North America
I know only about 30-50 people in the world which I can call "HDD Guru", all of them from ex-USSR. I didn't see ANY person originally from North America or Europe (not from ex-USSR) which I could call "HDD Guru". Maybe I didn't have a chance to meet one.
Most of HDD recovery companies knowledge based on software and information which you can by on the market (PC3K, HRT, Salvation Dat etc.). So if they do not know something - DR companies do not know. Here is the limit.
Sometimes you cannot buy information - you need to dig it by yourself
Sometimes to fix a drive (and understand what's wrong) you need to know more than you can buy

I tell you secret - I cannot see any information on this forum what could be useful for me
I didn't say it's not interesting to be here

Sorry for offtop, these are just my thoughts, I want to say - this is very low possibility what you will get correct information about your drive from IBAS

im with you on this m8 there a lot of people on the net
that will not tell you there own secrets to do a perfect recovery.

its because they be lossing there bread and butter

as for a service track damaged
is the platter damaged in anyway

its very unlikely anyone can do the recovery now if it is damaged

as the hard drive reads from this track at the start.

so if you removed the head and not put it back in the right place
its good bye the data im sorry to say