Moving into hardware data recovery soon, need quick advises

[BrownChiLD]

Hi Guys

I'm from the Philippines, and I've been doing data recovery (software based + some of my self discovered DIY methods) for over 10 years. I've tried and or tested almost every bit of Data Recovery software out there (OnTrack being my favorite but they stopped development i believe) ... So i can honestly say i'm an expert at Software based data recovery (emergency methods, and all).. but im an absolute noob when it comes to Hardware based data recovery because I can't afford to setup a clean room and all the tools, so i didnt also bother studying them much. Another factor is that most people here are not willing to pay reasonable fees for hardware recovery, that's the reason why no one around here has invested in a facility.

Anywho, w/ my methods I've made a lot of customers really happy, but unfortunately i have to turn down a lot of data recovery requests due to hardware issues... failing (power fluctation, spin problem, dead drive etc) ... basically i had a rule.. IF THE DRIVE can not be DETECTED in BIOS I can't do shit about it. So i offer the customer clean room recovery by sending HDD's overseas w/c up's the cost soooo much that most clients simply can't or will not afford..


Anyway my thing now is, i wanted to up my data recovery service even just a little bit, to atleast handle some minor hardware issues, FW issues, basically i wanted to have a chance on fixing those non-BIOS-detectable drives , so i came accross Salvation's DATA COMPASS... I read its PDF presentation (not so good english) and i was amazed, this is exactly the tool i wanted to invest on... but then i kept reading and researching and i found PC3000 and other tools, sub tools etc, and i was getting more and more confused.. i've spent 2 days already and i am as confused as ever.. so I AM ASKING for quick tips and answers only to get me on track, please?

Lemme enumerate to simplify:

1) Given my situation above, what would be the tool you can suggest for me? again i dont need complicated data recovery solution like switching platters... just something to improve my service and be able to recover from non-bios-detectable drives as per Data compass's description of what it is ABLE to do, so i dont have to depend on my BIOS to detect drives..

2) What's w/ all those manuals being sold on here? i dont get it.. WD manuals, etc..

3) w/ the cost of all these tools and stuff, i was thinking of investing in a HARDWARE BASED imaging product instead, no need for DATA RECOVERY functions.. as long as it can image from a problematic or seemingly dead harddrive, im good.. coz w/ that image safely generated, i can hammer it w/ different software combinations w/c i am good at.. i really dont need the hardware based recovery if it's just for speed and all in one solution approach..

4) Should i find it too complicated and/or expensive to up my services a lil the way i wanted to , i might just go back to subcontracting the hardware based recovery requirements.. so can you suggest any good company w/ very affordable rates near me? Philippines.. or in the country (although i dont think there's any around here)

5) Any other tips/suggestions?

Regards to all you Gurus!

[datacorder]

Did you read this topic?

pc3000-udma-data-compasss-t21792.html?hilit=data%20compass

Could be interesting for you.

Many people talking shit about Data Compass, and others talking goods ab out Atola Insight. Did you checked up this product?

http://atola.com/products/insight/

[northwind]

1. There is no general rule. PC3K is the best out there but: a) It costs a lot b) you need to know how to work with it, otherwise it's useless. DDI is the best hardware imager, and it is pretty straightforward. But it's not cheap either.

2. Ann (member poehere) has written manuals for the Salvation Tools. The reason is that these tools are being sold by salvation with absolutely no useful manual/guide, so when you purchase them, you're at loss. (well, you're at loss with these tools anyway ). If you intend to mess with hdd's firmware, I suggest you read Ann's books, it will give you knowledge.

3. DDI is the best imager. Atola is pretty good too and can do some basic diagnostics for you in auto mode, but DDI is superior IMHO. If i were you, i'd go for DDI forgetting about firmwares etc. Getting involved with firmware is a BIG league, bigger than you can imagine. The chances of you fucking up a client's drive playing with f/w is also bigger than you can imagine.

4. Sorry i do not know any reputable DR company or member in Philippines area.

[poehere]

I would look into Atola if you want a imager. I also would look at DDI too. Both are expensive and can do what you want to do. If you want to do other work well this is another story on this one. Wow image from a seemingly dead drives. That one is hard. Your first step is to see why it is in this condition and then you write hammer it with software. Never heard of this one before but seems like you got it down and can use your software on some drives to get off data. As for Seagate issues they are not always the same and this one is not a one fix solution on this one. Sorry.

BTW the manuals are to work with the tools from SD (Salvation Data) as you see their English is very bad and DR is not easy and when people invest a lot of money for these tools they can not use them at all. So I gave them hope in writting English instructions on how to use these tools and make their recoveries from them. That is why the English manuals are sold on these tools.

Just to do logical recovery with software is one thing but to work with all these tools and understand how each drive is and to fix them is another. If you have a drive that is almost dead then you need a good imager in order to not kill the heads on it or damage it further. One is Atola and the other is DDI. DC (data compass) is way behind in this one and anyone can write their tool is perfect but when you get it well that is another story. I would go with one that has been talked about the most and has a good reputation to do what you want. So save some money and buy either Atola or DDI for imaging the HDD for you.

[BlackST]

In a nutshell how much is the budget ?

[datacorder]

Northwind, I have a doubt around this phrase:

If i were you, i'd go for DDI forgetting about firmwares etc.

Do you mean that if you have a disk with a firmware problem, and you just want to save the data not repairing the disk, you can avoid dealing with the firmware by using a clonner like DDI or Atola Disk Imager?

Could anybody throw some light on this question?

[northwind]

No I didn't mean that.

DDI does not work with firmware. It is an imager. If, for instance, a drive has f/w problems and detects as 0 LBA or with factory alias then DDI can not image it. Well, it can, but other things need to be made first.

When i said "forget about firmwares" i meant that this is another field which is big and complex and requires a lot of know-how. Imaging is another field.

[BlackST]

Another factor is that most people here are not willing to pay reasonable fees for hardware recovery, that's the reason why no one around here has invested in a facility.

This should trigger a RED ALERT.

Anyway my thing now is, i wanted to up my data recovery service even just a little bit, to atleast handle some minor hardware issues, FW issues, basically i wanted to have a chance on fixing those non-BIOS-detectable drives , so i came accross Salvation's DATA COMPASS... I read its PDF presentation (not so good english) and i was amazed, this is exactly the tool i wanted to invest on... but then i kept reading and researching and i found PC3000 and other tools, sub tools etc, and i was getting more and more confused.. i've spent 2 days already and i am as confused as ever.. so I AM ASKING for quick tips and answers only to get me on track, please?
...
1) Given my situation above, what would be the tool you can suggest for me? again i dont need complicated data recovery solution like switching platters... just something to improve my service and be able to recover from non-bios-detectable drives as per Data compass's description of what it is ABLE to do, so i dont have to depend on my BIOS to detect drives..

That's what marketing is supposed to do : make believe.
You can use DC only as an imaging tool AND on limited case (that cannot be considered exactly "failure"). If the drive has firmware problems or physical problems or has blended troubles, you can cry but you never get data out of it.

2) What's w/ all those manuals being sold on here? i dont get it.. WD manuals, etc..

Appy only to SD products and can be a reference, but it isn't a sorcery cookbook if you don't know at least for good how each family work. Buy one-to-one or class training is better when you are starting up AND then documentation.

3) w/ the cost of all these tools and stuff, i was thinking of investing in a HARDWARE BASED imaging product instead, no need for DATA RECOVERY functions.. as long as it can image from a problematic or seemingly dead harddrive, im good.. coz w/ that image safely generated, i can hammer it w/ different software combinations w/c i am good at.. i really dont need the hardware based recovery if it's just for speed and all in one solution approach..

DDI or ATOLA or even DC but if the drive IS problematic you have to do in any case some FW intervention and it requires know how either to buy or trade something else for.
I can make many drives / families forcefully work in order to image even without HW imagers, but it's me.

4) Should i find it too complicated and/or expensive to up my services a lil the way i wanted to , i might just go back to subcontracting the hardware based recovery requirements.. so can you suggest any good company w/ very affordable rates near me? Philippines.. or in the country (although i dont think there's any around here)

It depends on what your target can afford : if you have only whiners and troublemakers that first try everything they read on the internet then come to you with their completely screwed devices and/or assume they MUST have their data back for no more than 100$, assuming you have to add your markup and PAY TAXES , you wouldn't find anything.
If your customers are mainly corporate business, PA and people with no tight budget (or NO budget) issues, then yes, outsourcing IS / WILL BE another key as you don't have to invest on equipment, premises etc. anc you can concentrate on service.

5) Any other tips/suggestions?

Just one : it's no easy cash.

[BrownChiLD]

Hi guys,

Alright thanks very very very much for the insights.. i really appreciate em, specially those very detailed ones.

first of all the reason i got to ask is when i read about Data Compass and the way they described it
http://www.salvationdata.com/data-recov ... ompass.htm
it seemed so easy hehe.

anywho, so in summary, i guess
1) FORKING UP CASH for a sophisticated line of recovery hardware, plus learning how to use it, is just not worth it for me/us in the Philippines at this time.. we have to wait till people are more willing to pay, or hardware becomes cheaper and easier to use.

2) best solution to what i am looking for, a simple no fuss way to clone a PROBLEMATIC but "not too problematic" drive is DDI.. it's still a lot of money but less in the "learning curve"..


but last question would be, HOW MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE is DDI over just cloaning a drive by slaving it to a good PC and using cloning software like acronis true image? i mean i was i guess "fantasizing" that DDI can still clone from a "failing" problematic drive, clanking , losing signal etc .. like really bad situation. but my impression from these posts are, it isnt effective if the drive is too problematic already (perhaps if not seen in bios anymore).. then in that case what good does it do over slaving the drive onto another PC and just using my software like i always do?

[warnerr]

These imagers are designed to copy failing drives- they jump past damaged areas getting what they can on first pass- then return and copy skipped areas jumping sections a little less- repeating tighter and tighter untill all sectors are copied. Products such as Atola also can cycle the power on the drive and monitor the power consumption. There are maual controllsso combinations such as a specific head or reverse imaging can be employed.

[BlackST]

These imagers are designed to copy failing drives- they jump past damaged areas getting what they can on first pass- then return and copy skipped areas jumping sections a little less- repeating tighter and tighter untill all sectors are copied. Products such as Atola also can cycle the power on the drive and monitor the power consumption. There are maual controllsso combinations such as a specific head or reverse imaging can be employed.

At leas this is incomplete or not exact. If you have used DDI ....

[warnerr]

example given is for Atola. Read for yourself http://atola.com/products/insight/disk-duplication.html
go ahead and list ddi features!

[JWCC]

1. There is no general rule. PC3K is the best out there but: a) It costs a lot b) you need to know how to work with it, otherwise it's useless. DDI is the best hardware imager, and it is pretty straightforward. But it's not cheap either.

2. Ann (member poehere) has written manuals for the Salvation Tools. The reason is that these tools are being sold by salvation with absolutely no useful manual/guide, so when you purchase them, you're at loss. (well, you're at loss with these tools anyway ). If you intend to mess with hdd's firmware, I suggest you read Ann's books, it will give you knowledge.

3. DDI is the best imager. Atola is pretty good too and can do some basic diagnostics for you in auto mode, but DDI is superior IMHO. If i were you, i'd go for DDI forgetting about firmwares etc. Getting involved with firmware is a BIG league, bigger than you can imagine. The chances of you fucking up a client's drive playing with f/w is also bigger than you can imagine.

4. Sorry i do not know any reputable DR company or member in Philippines area.

Yeah, #2: Drives do some major voodoo magic that you'll have to learn. It's not just buy a program and special adapter and suddenly be able to do miracles. This forum is very good to read. I learned a lot from working on some drives and reading the forum. Thanks to all the people sharing information!

#3 is the most scary concept possible. You can lose a lot of data, really fast, by messing with firmwares. Oh, and by 'firmware', that doesn't mean just some code for a microcontroller(CPU). This means the data that tells the drive where the other data is, the physical parameters of the drive, what the drive ate for breakfast (just kidding, the SMART data), and so on.

#4 is because there's obvious economic reasons. This will change with income levels over time.

My advice to Brownchild, if you're really serious about this:
1) Learn by 'refurbishing' some dead drives. Try 100's of them. I'm not sure if you can get ahold of that many, but it's really needed. The difference between music teachers and musicians is about 6000 hours. Practice, practice, practice.
2) Learn the theory of how storage works on a physical level. This site covers more of the recovery tools part. You want more fundamental stuff as well. There is much to learn!

[aiki]

Hello guys , sorry for resurrecting this thread but it addreses the very same questions ive been doing myself for a while.

Me like Brownchild , been working with some data recovery software with various degree of success over the years altought im no expert and have a background in electronics up to component level repairs for laptop/desktop computers, but as him the rule of "not detected by BIOS = forget it" very much draws the line for me when talking about data recovery.

So i registered to post my toughts on this basically because something I believe BlackST asked what i believe is "the question" on this subject , "whats the budget?"

Whats in your experienced opinion is the magic number to start with a right foot into this? Would you need to invest in a Clean room environment from the start?, would a single vendor solution like Deepspar be enough? and how about hardware , do tools like platter/magnet/heads exchangers are a must ? if so are the ones offered by the guys at HDRC any good?

Finally about training , I've contacted a few sites like INFOSEC institute who offer online training options , but could traveling up to the stated for onsite training if there are considerable advantages.

I woud very much appreciate your input and opinions on these subjects , and will surely start lurking around this site for now on.

Thanks in advance for your time and congrats on a great site.
Aiki.

[3ND]

Hello guys , sorry for resurrecting this thread but it addreses the very same questions ive been doing myself for a while.

I woud very much appreciate your input and opinions on these subjects , and will surely start lurking around this site for now on.

Thanks in advance for your time and congrats on a great site.
Aiki.

Save some money and I'd say do some training with some reputable company's. Not only will you be engaging with a little bit of know hows, you'll also be given the opportunity to play with those expensive tools required! Won't make you an expert in anyway but rather INTRODUCE you to DR. Then you can weigh things up on tools etc.. etc etc to see if its your cup of tea!

PS: HANDS ON TRAINING ain't cheap either!

Breen

[JWCC]

Think about it this way. Would you rather go read a book, then serve in the military, or would you rather go through actual practice before serving? Some things you just need to do in person to learn. Experience is often the best teacher, but sometimes one of the most expensive.

[legionlabs]

If the market in the Philippines is anything like here in Vietnam, you'll find occasional small companies that can pay 400-600$ for data recovery.

Individuals who will spend over 150$ for a repair job (...that's including parts and labor) are rare here (maybe Party members?).

However, on the plus side, surplus HDs are cheap and plentiful here (especially 2.5" ones), I plan to buy a few and have some fun... though a better business may be to hoard drives as parts for western data recovery companies (like some online businesses do already), or even just source by request.