Re: MyHardDriveDied.com Data recovery Training
February 26th, 2011, 19:01
guru wrote:One of the problems with the Internet is the facelessness of the whole process. It enables people to have an anonymous alter-ego
You mean like this?
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh29 ... oto-18.jpg
:)
Re: MyHardDriveDied.com Data recovery Training
February 26th, 2011, 19:38
Doomer wrote:That's what I thought
Mastering wiki doesn't make you extraordinary.
I think you should understand that your judgment in this case is pure hypocrisy
My favourite movie is the original 1960s version of Bedazzled in which a lovelorn cook, Stanley Moon (Dudley Moore), sells his soul to the devil incarnate, George Spigott (Peter Cook), in return for seven wishes. Before Stanley can be convinced that George really is Beelzebub, Satan, The Horned One, etc, he accepts George's offer to fulfill a wish. Stanley asks for a Frobisher and Gleason Ice-Lolly, whereupon George immediately escorts Stanley to the bus stop where they both hop onto a bus and travel to the local confectionery store. George then purchases the requested item, using Stanley's money, of course.
Re: MyHardDriveDied.com Data recovery Training
February 26th, 2011, 20:48
“I am in my right mind, now, clear-headed and free of the murky darkness of ignorance, brought upon me by my continual, bitter reading of those abominable books of chivalry.”
Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed.
I quite like "10" with (Dudley Moore)
Truly I was born to be an example of misfortune, and a target at which the arrows of adversary are aimed.
I quite like "10" with (Dudley Moore)
Re: MyHardDriveDied.com Data recovery Training
April 29th, 2011, 18:40
I'm going to try to answer most of the actual questions posed on here so far that have not yet been addressed, in the hopes that anyone else looking for an answer can get as much factual information as possible:
The class only does two hard drives?
Try more like 6-10 drives. All depending on how many the student wants to do and how many extra are available.
Does he provide support after the class?
There is a community of people who have a variety of skills in the DR and computer forensics world that participate in a google groups discussion group where people are encouraged to post their questions and people will do their best to answer them. Sometimes by Scott himself, and sometimes by others.
Does he actually do any data recovery himself?
Yes he does. He has a solid background in computer forensics and runs myharddrivedied.com as both the training side and the DR business and does the DR cases that his tech(s) can't do.
Why do the two books (color vs. black and white) have such a high price difference?
The prices were set by the publisher and not Scott. In fact when I asked Scott about it, he noted they were not even selling the latest version of his course so he wasn't sure why they were doing it, since he never asked them to sell the book as a stand alone product.
My own commentary:
Having just the book without the live or recorded lecture is probably just as good as having a book on biology without a class and a professor to use the material as a BASIS for a lecture, but please don't think that Scott stands up in front of the class and just reads the slides. There would be no value in that.
To the argument that the material presented in the class is not a secret, and that you can save the money by just googling the material because it is all out there and within the confines of this forum and similar sites, and therefore not worth the money? The same could be said for just about any IT training course under the sun, Cisco, RedHat, Windows System Administration, etc. I have never attended any technical courses where I felt I was being taught a non-stop waterfall of secrets... The courses that I felt had the most value were one's where I had a very basic understanding of the subject matter, and I attended a course where I expanded my knowledge of those basic skills, filled-in the gaps, learned some of the tools of the trade and which tools were good based on certain scenarios via Lab exercises. The most important thing I look for is to walk out with the sense that I had a glimpse at how someone in that industry thinks, because tools come and go, but the understanding of critical thinking skills transcends all of that.
It would be within the abilities of most people in this forum to Google and search out all of the printed material in this and just about any other IT course out there.. but how long would gathering, sorting, and understanding that material take a newcomer if s/he didn't have a point of reference as to where to start? How would s/he know what was valuable and what wasn't? The goal of any training course is to establish a baseline of knowledge using training material that may have taken hundreds or thousands of hours to review, organize and then develop lectures based on that material.
Are you really an "expert" after you graduate from the course?
No, and I can see why the DR veterans (I think that's a better term than guru/expert/etc) take issue with any 1 week course generating people with the word "expert" in their title. Perhaps "Certified Data Recovery Technician" might be better in terms of appeasing the flames of rage on that specific topic.
What about "all those people" who think they can run out and do data recovery after taking the class?
Ok, what about all the people who think they are system admins after getting their MCSE? People who take a single class and then seek out employment in any industry that requires years of experience can put people's data at risk. Scott did not invent this problem, and I would put the responsibility onto the individual taking the class to decide if they feel they are really qualified to walk out and earn money under the DR banner. Certainly the class presents enough material to have a solid understanding of logical recoveries and basic physical ones, but you still need the time to go out and practice those techniques.
From behind the anonymity of a computer screen, it is easy to criticize any public figure's actions, and to belittle other individuals who don't share your point of view. For my part, I think what Scott is doing creates more good than it does harm. The greatest good done by Scott's classes is providing a foot in the door to the big world of data recovery to those individuals who have a true passion for data recovery and want to pursue it. It is still a huge uphill battle for anyone to break into the world professionally, and having read through these forums as I have in the past years, you can pretty much forget about someone on here adopting you as their mentor to help guide you and answer your questions. So how is one supposed to learn? The way I see it the only current way is via Scott's class and then possibly the ACE courses and then (of course) practice, practice, practice...practice before the classes, during and after... Research and learn.. but on the whole the attitude on public forums towards people who want to learn is disheartening (I don't include those instances where people with zero knowledge, training, or understanding in anything computer related get upset because the answer is "turn to a pro" when it is clearly warranted.... )
I took Scott's class over 4 years ago. In that time his course material has grown in size by 3, and the class has expanded to have a DDI for each one/two students in the live course, and the price has stayed the same. I know no one who updates their course material as often as he does. In addition to running his business, he does classes and podcasts, speaks at conferences, supports small and large computer security conferences through sponsorship and provides over 100 hours of youtube videos free. When other trainers end their day, and go hide in their hotel room, Scott invites his students to join him for dinner, effectively taking an 8-9 hour day (he feeds his students lunch to maximize class time) and stretching it out to a 10-12 hour day. You can have your opinion about the man's effect on the DR industry, but you cannot question his work ethic.
I spent 3 years working on furthering my knowledge after his class, saving the funds to buy dedicated hardware and setting up a lab to work in, all on my own. All before deciding to start a business on the side. I did not enter into the decision carelessly and I proceed cautiously whenever helping a new client. If I can't do it on my own, I send it to Scott. I have yet to jeopardize a client's data and have only had to turn one person away because his drive was dropped while running and platters were scratched beyond any reasonable repair.
The path to being a DR professional is as varied as any other industry, mine was to approach it from the advancement of my computer forensics knowledge. To me, taking that leap into the next level down by taking Scott's class just made sense. To people with full-time jobs, families, and other responsibilities, it is WELL worth the cost of the course to have it all condensed and taught to you in a single week's time. People scoff at the price, but honestly? Those are people who are either in non-US countries (don't hate, I wasn't born in the US either), or aren't used to the prices of training classes. Take a look at the BlackHat training courses to see some of the prices... $5K USD is the norm for a week long course. Scott's course is well under that. Most people aren't paying for the training out of their own pocket, and their company's are happy to pay for a course that will further their employee's understanding of a topic of interest AND will also help them earn credits towards their other certifications (like the CISSP's 120 hour training requirements, or the Guidance Software EnCE certifications). These people and companies have more money than time. If you have more time than money, you can "afford" to do it all yourself, with little to no help. I don't.
Historically there have been many of us on this forum who have attended Scott's classes, but have been hesitant to say so for fear of the same derisive comments as have been historically been seen. I for one felt it was time to stand up and be counted. You can throw your little quizzes at me, you can say I'm just Scott using a different account, tell yourself whatever you need to so that your opinion doesn't change, but the fact is Scott is a great teacher, and a good person and anyone who doesn't agree likely only knows him from edited online videos and PowerPoint slides.
I hope that as big as the egos are of some people on this forum, that at least you are not like this in real life and that you take time to teach others in your company or that you otherwise know personally, and answer their questions. There are many intelligent individuals on this forum who could help others do great things if they shared their knowledge. To those who have taken the time to assist me on this forum with my questions, I thank you and will always be on the lookout to return the favor.
As I am sure I have provided the usual suspects more than enough ammo to knock me down, I will leave you with one parting thought.
The true data recovery expert deserves that title because he is an expert at electrical engineering, micro soldering, computer programming, reverse engineering, CNC machining, internet searching, computer file systems, computer forensics and file reconstruction, all operating systems (past and present) and has a photographic memory of all mass storage devices since their inception and has worked with each and every one of them. He speaks and reads English, Chinese and Russian fluently and knows at least 4 other languages well enough to participate in online forums. His critical thinking and problem solving skills rival that of mythical characters like "House" on Fox Television and Sherlock Holmes. He is soft-spoken, well-mannered and even tempered, a good writer, an excellent public speaker and and is willing to share his experiences with individuals whom he clearly can tell are also wanting to head down the same scholarly path. Lastly, he is a she.
Everyone else is still trying to earn that title....
The class only does two hard drives?
Try more like 6-10 drives. All depending on how many the student wants to do and how many extra are available.
Does he provide support after the class?
There is a community of people who have a variety of skills in the DR and computer forensics world that participate in a google groups discussion group where people are encouraged to post their questions and people will do their best to answer them. Sometimes by Scott himself, and sometimes by others.
Does he actually do any data recovery himself?
Yes he does. He has a solid background in computer forensics and runs myharddrivedied.com as both the training side and the DR business and does the DR cases that his tech(s) can't do.
Why do the two books (color vs. black and white) have such a high price difference?
The prices were set by the publisher and not Scott. In fact when I asked Scott about it, he noted they were not even selling the latest version of his course so he wasn't sure why they were doing it, since he never asked them to sell the book as a stand alone product.
My own commentary:
Having just the book without the live or recorded lecture is probably just as good as having a book on biology without a class and a professor to use the material as a BASIS for a lecture, but please don't think that Scott stands up in front of the class and just reads the slides. There would be no value in that.
To the argument that the material presented in the class is not a secret, and that you can save the money by just googling the material because it is all out there and within the confines of this forum and similar sites, and therefore not worth the money? The same could be said for just about any IT training course under the sun, Cisco, RedHat, Windows System Administration, etc. I have never attended any technical courses where I felt I was being taught a non-stop waterfall of secrets... The courses that I felt had the most value were one's where I had a very basic understanding of the subject matter, and I attended a course where I expanded my knowledge of those basic skills, filled-in the gaps, learned some of the tools of the trade and which tools were good based on certain scenarios via Lab exercises. The most important thing I look for is to walk out with the sense that I had a glimpse at how someone in that industry thinks, because tools come and go, but the understanding of critical thinking skills transcends all of that.
It would be within the abilities of most people in this forum to Google and search out all of the printed material in this and just about any other IT course out there.. but how long would gathering, sorting, and understanding that material take a newcomer if s/he didn't have a point of reference as to where to start? How would s/he know what was valuable and what wasn't? The goal of any training course is to establish a baseline of knowledge using training material that may have taken hundreds or thousands of hours to review, organize and then develop lectures based on that material.
Are you really an "expert" after you graduate from the course?
No, and I can see why the DR veterans (I think that's a better term than guru/expert/etc) take issue with any 1 week course generating people with the word "expert" in their title. Perhaps "Certified Data Recovery Technician" might be better in terms of appeasing the flames of rage on that specific topic.
What about "all those people" who think they can run out and do data recovery after taking the class?
Ok, what about all the people who think they are system admins after getting their MCSE? People who take a single class and then seek out employment in any industry that requires years of experience can put people's data at risk. Scott did not invent this problem, and I would put the responsibility onto the individual taking the class to decide if they feel they are really qualified to walk out and earn money under the DR banner. Certainly the class presents enough material to have a solid understanding of logical recoveries and basic physical ones, but you still need the time to go out and practice those techniques.
From behind the anonymity of a computer screen, it is easy to criticize any public figure's actions, and to belittle other individuals who don't share your point of view. For my part, I think what Scott is doing creates more good than it does harm. The greatest good done by Scott's classes is providing a foot in the door to the big world of data recovery to those individuals who have a true passion for data recovery and want to pursue it. It is still a huge uphill battle for anyone to break into the world professionally, and having read through these forums as I have in the past years, you can pretty much forget about someone on here adopting you as their mentor to help guide you and answer your questions. So how is one supposed to learn? The way I see it the only current way is via Scott's class and then possibly the ACE courses and then (of course) practice, practice, practice...practice before the classes, during and after... Research and learn.. but on the whole the attitude on public forums towards people who want to learn is disheartening (I don't include those instances where people with zero knowledge, training, or understanding in anything computer related get upset because the answer is "turn to a pro" when it is clearly warranted.... )
I took Scott's class over 4 years ago. In that time his course material has grown in size by 3, and the class has expanded to have a DDI for each one/two students in the live course, and the price has stayed the same. I know no one who updates their course material as often as he does. In addition to running his business, he does classes and podcasts, speaks at conferences, supports small and large computer security conferences through sponsorship and provides over 100 hours of youtube videos free. When other trainers end their day, and go hide in their hotel room, Scott invites his students to join him for dinner, effectively taking an 8-9 hour day (he feeds his students lunch to maximize class time) and stretching it out to a 10-12 hour day. You can have your opinion about the man's effect on the DR industry, but you cannot question his work ethic.
I spent 3 years working on furthering my knowledge after his class, saving the funds to buy dedicated hardware and setting up a lab to work in, all on my own. All before deciding to start a business on the side. I did not enter into the decision carelessly and I proceed cautiously whenever helping a new client. If I can't do it on my own, I send it to Scott. I have yet to jeopardize a client's data and have only had to turn one person away because his drive was dropped while running and platters were scratched beyond any reasonable repair.
The path to being a DR professional is as varied as any other industry, mine was to approach it from the advancement of my computer forensics knowledge. To me, taking that leap into the next level down by taking Scott's class just made sense. To people with full-time jobs, families, and other responsibilities, it is WELL worth the cost of the course to have it all condensed and taught to you in a single week's time. People scoff at the price, but honestly? Those are people who are either in non-US countries (don't hate, I wasn't born in the US either), or aren't used to the prices of training classes. Take a look at the BlackHat training courses to see some of the prices... $5K USD is the norm for a week long course. Scott's course is well under that. Most people aren't paying for the training out of their own pocket, and their company's are happy to pay for a course that will further their employee's understanding of a topic of interest AND will also help them earn credits towards their other certifications (like the CISSP's 120 hour training requirements, or the Guidance Software EnCE certifications). These people and companies have more money than time. If you have more time than money, you can "afford" to do it all yourself, with little to no help. I don't.
Historically there have been many of us on this forum who have attended Scott's classes, but have been hesitant to say so for fear of the same derisive comments as have been historically been seen. I for one felt it was time to stand up and be counted. You can throw your little quizzes at me, you can say I'm just Scott using a different account, tell yourself whatever you need to so that your opinion doesn't change, but the fact is Scott is a great teacher, and a good person and anyone who doesn't agree likely only knows him from edited online videos and PowerPoint slides.
I hope that as big as the egos are of some people on this forum, that at least you are not like this in real life and that you take time to teach others in your company or that you otherwise know personally, and answer their questions. There are many intelligent individuals on this forum who could help others do great things if they shared their knowledge. To those who have taken the time to assist me on this forum with my questions, I thank you and will always be on the lookout to return the favor.
As I am sure I have provided the usual suspects more than enough ammo to knock me down, I will leave you with one parting thought.
The true data recovery expert deserves that title because he is an expert at electrical engineering, micro soldering, computer programming, reverse engineering, CNC machining, internet searching, computer file systems, computer forensics and file reconstruction, all operating systems (past and present) and has a photographic memory of all mass storage devices since their inception and has worked with each and every one of them. He speaks and reads English, Chinese and Russian fluently and knows at least 4 other languages well enough to participate in online forums. His critical thinking and problem solving skills rival that of mythical characters like "House" on Fox Television and Sherlock Holmes. He is soft-spoken, well-mannered and even tempered, a good writer, an excellent public speaker and and is willing to share his experiences with individuals whom he clearly can tell are also wanting to head down the same scholarly path. Lastly, he is a she.
Everyone else is still trying to earn that title....
Re: MyHardDriveDied.com Data recovery Training
April 30th, 2011, 8:17
MadMex wrote:I'm going to try to answer most of the actual questions posed on here so far that have not yet been addressed, in the hopes that anyone else looking for an answer can get as much factual information as possible:
Thanks. Much appreciated.
Re: MyHardDriveDied.com Data recovery Training
September 3rd, 2011, 22:44
In my opinion, there seems to be a misunderstanding about how the DR veterans see Scott Moulten's role in the data recovery industry. Nobody really has a problem with him offering a DR course and whatever other associated materials with the course for the purpose of pure training. The issue with the DR veterans as I have noticed is that too many DR technology aspects, failures, solutions and techniques to apply such solutions are made readily available on the web to people who have no interest in training. Most of the people who suffer a data loss from a failed device are searching on line about DR because they want to "fix" their drive this one time, get their data, and move on with their lives. They do not seek training, but rather an easy and most of the time free fix or advice on how to recover the data.
Judging by the consistent number of new members signing up on this forum daily searching for this DIY/free fix, there is no way one can argue that this not the case. Now, when all such people find this type of information on YouTube and where ever else, then it presents them with an opportunity to apply a solution on their own that is without question the wrong path to go when lacking technology understanding, equipment, experience, critical thinking, etc. When the veterans are interacting with such people on the forum and clearly identify that the poster can not handle the job, then the normal course of action is to advice them for professional service to prevent disasters. Data recovery disasters unfortunately do happen because people try to apply something they see online readily available, when they really should not.
Now, in my ideal world, if every new person who comes to this forum would be asked: are you here for training or for trying to recover your data?
If for training, then you can start with such and such article and here some of the courses you can take for starters and as you learn and have questions comeback on the forum, ask questions and see what you can learn from the replies.
If you are here for data recovery, then search online using key words such as data recovery for example. Here is a list of factors for you to consider what is important in selecting what company you decide to send your drive to.
Well, this is not an ideal world and things do not work like that.
Judging by the consistent number of new members signing up on this forum daily searching for this DIY/free fix, there is no way one can argue that this not the case. Now, when all such people find this type of information on YouTube and where ever else, then it presents them with an opportunity to apply a solution on their own that is without question the wrong path to go when lacking technology understanding, equipment, experience, critical thinking, etc. When the veterans are interacting with such people on the forum and clearly identify that the poster can not handle the job, then the normal course of action is to advice them for professional service to prevent disasters. Data recovery disasters unfortunately do happen because people try to apply something they see online readily available, when they really should not.
Now, in my ideal world, if every new person who comes to this forum would be asked: are you here for training or for trying to recover your data?
If for training, then you can start with such and such article and here some of the courses you can take for starters and as you learn and have questions comeback on the forum, ask questions and see what you can learn from the replies.
If you are here for data recovery, then search online using key words such as data recovery for example. Here is a list of factors for you to consider what is important in selecting what company you decide to send your drive to.
Well, this is not an ideal world and things do not work like that.
Re: MyHardDriveDied.com Data recovery Training
September 6th, 2011, 9:29
Between this forum, google and youtube I think there is no longer a need for any data recovery training. 
I wonder if Scott moulton feels threatened
I wonder if Scott moulton feels threatened
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