Solution for 7200.11 Hard disk

[darkforce1]

Lets come back to main topic. Party is over now.

DF

[coffeebean]

Hi darkforce1,

Main topic ? - the video you posted and then deleted.

Well here is link to main topic as suggested

http://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic1165039.html

[darkforce1]

[Amarbir[CDR-Labs]]

Hi ,
Posting After a Long Time ,First

1 :Happy New Year Guys

Secondly I Would Say That If We People Are Not Eager To discuss Openly Then We Can Not Also Learn .The Idea of Doing DR Comes in Spurts To Few People .They Try To Learn And solve There Issue And Then Run Away .Well during the Time They Are Away You People Who Are Regular With Your Work will Keep Larning And Progressing .so There is No Issue .

[BlackST]

Each customer comes, want his issue solved then go away. Maybe they come in spurts, maybe not. If you give a solution, blame internet emule culture and the "reverse communism" (definition (C) BlackST) , you are giving yourself a Beretta 92 gunshot on your balls (if you prefer Colt, Glock, S&W the result is the same). So there is no issue?

P.S. reverse communism definition :
- When people say "freedom of information", "wikipedia!" "emule!" "Internet!" and when they have cut 1 cent off their payroll / wage they scream "hands off!"
- When they say they are communists/against multinationals/democrats but they dream the BMW (OK, maybe a 1950 Zhiguli or a Prinz NSU is not a real turn on, maybe ....) and an Iphone makes them multihorgasmic.
- Privatize the income and socialize losses i.e. RMA a fallen drive

[coffeebean]

Hi BlackST,

Why are eyeties so smart ? - No I don't have an answer.

[Nimrod]

Hi guys, I am one of the plethora of people who are now stuck with these usless bricks, I have had one out of my three go down so far, and I'm guessing the rest will die over the next few months. Fortunately for myself I am rather pedantic about keeping an up to date disk image on another HDD so when it went down, it was a simple matter of restoring the image.

Now my question is; Is this an actual fix? (Does it change the firmware or is it a pure data recovery process, that doesn't actually fix the root problem?) I ask, as I'd be prepared to pay a specialist to fix the drive if it ment it wasn't going to waste my time again, or is this going to be a case of RMAing the things till the warranty runs out?

[pepe]

Hi,

The 'fix' is not a fix in the way that it does not alter the firmware itself, so the problem is prone to rise again. It is mainly for DR.
If U don't have any important stuff on the drive, it is advisable to RMA it instead of looking for a fix.
Maybe Seagate will alter something in the FW of later drives, who knows...


pepe

[drc]

I'd be prepared to pay a specialist to fix the drive if it ment it wasn't going to waste my time again

Except that would be way more expensive than just RMAing to Seagate for a replacement.

[Nimrod]

I'd be prepared to pay a specialist to fix the drive if it ment it wasn't going to waste my time again

Except that would be way more expensive than just RMAing to Seagate for a replacement.

Yeah fair call, looks like I'll RMA them as they go then sit the replacments on the shelf as spares (purchase some others from a different manufacurer).

[AlexLilic]

I can't help but add a long comment on this thread, because I am another "end user" who has lost important data due to this SD15 firmware fault.

I am a 40-year old IT Manager who has worked in both financial institutions and IT vendors (e.g. Digital, HP and currently coordinating technical support for a global software company you all know). I have used data recovery services professionally in the past, and happily signed the invoice for "whatever it took" to recover corporate data for which I was accountable. However, due to careful personal practices and luck, I have never (until now) lost personal data.

I am disappointed and amazed however at the attitude that is demonstrated by members of this forum. You are not software or hardware developers. You are in the Software/Hardware Services segment - so let me tell you what that means. For the rest of the IT world, this segment is characterised NOT by a lack of available knowledge. Quite the contrary. There is an abundance of published information on how to resolve software faults, recover from errors, service hardware, etc - and the community is characterised by (if anything too much) freely available advice. YET despite this there is a thriving service industry of IT Pros who will troubleshoot, configure, resolve and restore the continuity of your IT Service (hardware and software).

The specific value that these IT Pro's bring to their customers is:
- Greater specialization.
- Greater experience
- Better assimilation and implementation of the public-domain available knowledge.

However what you are attempting to maintain is a protectionist attitude towards the knowledge itself and subsequently you display a callous and complete disregard for your customers. This is PARTICULARLY insulting when the problem is a widespread event such as the 7200.11 firmware fault. With broad-impact consumer issues like this, attempts to restrict knowledge are quite simply profiteering.

This is bound to fail, and in the end it will hurt your industry segment and your reputation. It is the diametric opposite of true professionalism, and it marks you as an immature group that is not able to survive in the harsh light of transparent open service-delivery. Sure you might make a dollar or two now - but customers like me will remember, and we will embrace every attempt to "open" your industry and devalue your skillsets. You deserve nothing more.

So, enjoy your "whose is bigger" postings, and your smug announcement to individuals that whilst you know how to restore their data you chose not to disclose it to them. The proud reference to how some of you "researched the problem yourselves" is not something to trumpet. It simply indicates the immature and inneficient nature of your industry. A bunch of secretive backyard tinkerers and individual researchers? is this the "Pro" in your title that you want customers to respect?

This one post has eroded my respect for the DR community more than I could have imagined possible.
But on the up-side, it has made me feel proud of the IT segments that I work in, because they are clearly light years ahead of where yours is mired.

If I end up learning how to resolve this error, I promise I will be the first to place it on every forum I can find - and the next time I meet a self-confessed "DR Expert" at an IT function, I think I will politely look for more advanced company.

[drc]

words

I think you have the wrong idea. The solution for this problem requires specific data recovery hardware and software and knowledge. If someone posts a video that shows how to solve the problem using a $10,000+ piece of equipment, this does absolutely nothing to benefit the end user.

True there are some folks here in this forum who do/did/could work for hard drive manufacturers writing drive firmware who have figured out how to deal with it without expensive equipment, but there again that does nothing to benefit the end user.

[HeadCrash]

The problem with people such as AlexLilic,

I am a 40-year old IT Manager who has worked in both financial institutions and IT vendors (e.g. Digital, HP and currently coordinating technical support for a global software company you all know).

Basically you are not a business minded person, your job is on salary-based, you wont give a damn whether your company is making a profit or not, most of us own the DR company, if we adopt your ideas of "OPEN SOURCE" we will ruin our business or it will empede our bread and butter.

PERIOD

[BlackST]

Jealous, maybe. Period.

[AlexLilic]

(last post from me)
My thoughts are intended to be entirely business-minded, and I am not at all jealous. I have also worked as a freelance IT Pro, and as a partner in a 2-man outfit - so I understand what its like to measure your meal ticket by the customer cheques you receive each month.

If your business is based solely on a secret, then all you have is a transient advantage that you are charging for. If the secret is public, your "business" is gone. The best businesses are built on substantive differentiators, and they prosper despite being completely transparent to their customers.

My advice is to be transparent about what you do and how you do it - then you can also be crystal clear about the SPECIFIC value that you bring to the activity, service or product. It's this value which you should be focussing on and articulating better.

[Russwinters]

I believe Data recovery and IT (networking, etc) ARE each in their own realm, and should and are handled completely different. Any Joe guy can go to school to learn IT skills, but Data recovery is niche, and the people that go out of their way to learn it have many trials and tribulations they go through to get to where they are. While you see thousands of "booksmart" IT guys that have mcse, etc, but when they get put in a room with 40 blade servers that have gone down, they have no idea where to start. You don't see that within professional data recovery companies, because DR pros have "Wisdom", knowledge gained only from experiencing first hand, not from a book or a video.

Also if this kind of information was easily available, many people would likely damage their valuable data and lose it for good attempting to do these procedures. If they want to try it themselves it is their right, but we certainly arn't going to advocate it in any way.

[pcrecovery]

words

I think you have the wrong idea. The solution for this problem requires specific data recovery hardware and software and knowledge. If someone posts a video that shows how to solve the problem using a $10,000+ piece of equipment, this does absolutely nothing to benefit the end user.

True there are some folks here in this forum who do/did/could work for hard drive manufacturers writing drive firmware who have figured out how to deal with it without expensive equipment, but there again that does nothing to benefit the end user.

This is VERY true and NOT understood unfortunately. Also, so many get upset about so-called "secrets" etc etc... I have a slightly different feeling about so of this information...let me try to explain

I phone and chat with other members and sometimes we do share some unpublished information but there is often good reason not to share it publicly as well.

Example: A fellow Guru has some very much needed techniques and information. I need this to solve a special case. I offer to pay my colleague or trade something and also promise not to disclose HIS discovery. I agree NOT to publish it (means post here,etc). This information cannot be found anywhere. Often there is much experimentation, many many hours of work, etc to figure out some things in DR. Recently, I offered to send some special electronics to a colleague in Europe in exchange for some very valuable information he gave to me. He ask me not to publish his work. I respect that. So if someone asks me how to solve this problem and I say that I can do it, but I cannot tell you how to do it, am I being selfish? Or respectful? You tell me.

This happens very often. Anyway, there are many instances similar to this.

Surely the person who discovers something wishes to receive credit for his discovery, right? Many times, he likes to keep to himself, so he might be one of the few persons to know how to repair a certain case, right? What is wrong with this? After all, he made the discovery....he worked very hard and had the knowledge and abilities to solve the problem. I respect and honor this. Maybe I am wrong...maybe if you discover something after working hundreds of hours and spending thousands of your own money, you give it away and tell the world? that is very charitable, but most people want something for their work, and I respect that very much.

Besides, there are very expensive tools and complex combinations of techniques required to perform most of the harder recoveries, as drccsc pointed out. I suppose it is interesting to know, but just purchase your own $10K+ in tools and don't forget the most important part = RTFM and also conduct your own experiments, and you will be very happy for sure.

I enjoy talking very much with other DR I met here. Unfortunately, I have been too busy lately to Chat or telephone anyone! I post this hoping that it would shed some insight and perhaps give some clue to other reasoning as to why some information is not so "transparent about what we do and how we do it" . I know this is not about topic 7200.11 solution....sorry!

[thatdellguy]

Publish all my knowledge on data recovery to every friggen person on the planet = Much less $$$ in my pocket
vs.
Give out and exchange information only with other trusted professionals = More $$$ in my pocket

I agree with Russwinters.

If you can't stand the forum and the people in it, then find a forum that cares.

[Doomer]

(last post from me)

Thank God

[rchadwick]

I suppose that, in addition to creating a fix for this issue (Not our responsibility BTW, ask Seagate for a fix), you think we should release it to the public, and then support and hand-hold those that are mystified that this patch doesn't fix their bad heads, frozen spindles, burned PCB's, and every other SA issue.

When I have an obscure computer issue, I research, and usually find info and/or a solution. I'm always grateful for whatever I find. However, even in a field like PC repair, where there are few proprietary secrets, I wouldn't think for a second that I'm entitled to any information. If someone doesn't want to share, I'll look somewhere else, or God forbid, figure things out myself.