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Michael S
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 15th, 2014, 5:17 
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Quote:
if lucky got data then ok if not update the post i will forward head problem solution.


I've already changed the PCB without success. Can you let me have your head problem solution?
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DataPlanet
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 15th, 2014, 16:20 
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fzabkar you are most nice person and intelligent electronic engineer i have ever seen... As for your question in old hdd's capacity is not a big issue but the manufacturing country is the issue many spare parts are different and the manufacturing of track on platter and SA is also some how different but architecture may be same "fzabkar" I have some personal work with you also sending you PM. So better if you try with same capacity and make of the hdd.

Now here is the head formula I am only sharing because Quantum Fireball is one of my favorite hdd and were fast speedy drive of our time.

Weak Head Formula apply to newer and old hdd's only for those PCB IC's are UP:

When head's can't read the SA it's life were over the head calibration IC get heat up some time burn or dead the retry system of detection not work because of this heat-up IC. You have to cool this smooth IC somehow like we cool CPU processor and retry upto 100 time's to get the detection when detection come's this IC no more heat up...

As for this case i can search the same donor drive in my stock and prepare a PCB to cool this IC this formula had 25% percent success even platter has some little scratches too.

$ 100 for Donor + shipping and a original flag of Great Britain to my location will cover my cost.








fzabkar wrote:
DataPlanet wrote:
Mostly PCB gone dead due to heat up.

you have to find same manufacture drive like Singapore , Thailand or etc.

Second capicity must be same 60 GB.

then swap the PCB

if lucky got data then ok if not update the post i will forward head problem solution.

The OP has already replaced the PCB.

Am I to understand that there is a difference between the PCB on a 60GB model as opposed to a 20GB model? Wouldn't the terminal output suggest that the drive "discovers" the heads and builds a head map dynamically rather than by using the information in ROM? If so, then couldn't the same ROM code suffice for all Fireball AS capacities?
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Michael S
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 29th, 2014, 10:42 
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Joined: April 9th, 2014, 7:18
Posts: 22
Location: United Kingdom
Quote:
When head's can't read the SA it's life were over the head calibration IC get heat up some time burn or dead the retry system of detection not work because of this heat-up IC. You have to cool this smooth IC somehow like we cool CPU processor and retry upto 100 time's to get the detection when detection come's this IC no more heat up...


Can I try putting it in the fridge then?!
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michael chiklis
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 29th, 2014, 10:58 
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Quote:
Can I try putting it in the fridge then?!


:lol:
yes, if you wanna kill your data due to condensation that would form on the platters.

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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 30th, 2014, 4:12 
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michael chiklis wrote:
Quote:
Can I try putting it in the fridge then?!


:lol:
yes, if you wanna kill your data due to condensation that would form on the platters.

Both Seagate and Hitachi have HDDs with an operating temperature range as low as -30degC. The non-operating temperature range is as low as -40C.

http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/supp ... 48541e.pdf
http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/te ... N4K100.pdf

In fact I recall that Doomer operated a standard drive at -20C for a short time without any damage.

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michael chiklis
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 30th, 2014, 6:11 
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I do not think the real problem would be the low temperature of the fridge, rather than condensation would form on the platters.
Condensation might kill heads, then bad heads could cause further damage to platters

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Spildit-Temp
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 30th, 2014, 14:34 
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Joined: May 27th, 2014, 14:03
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Michael S wrote:
Quote:
When head's can't read the SA it's life were over the head calibration IC get heat up some time burn or dead the retry system of detection not work because of this heat-up IC. You have to cool this smooth IC somehow like we cool CPU processor and retry upto 100 time's to get the detection when detection come's this IC no more heat up...


Can I try putting it in the fridge then?!


Send the drive to someone from the "old times";
Anyone familiar with HRT, HDD.EXE, PC-3000 ISA, etc would be able to do magic on that old drive.
You need firmware tools, not fridge.
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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 30th, 2014, 15:11 
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Spildit-Temp wrote:
Anyone familiar with HRT, HDD.EXE, PC-3000 ISA, etc would be able to do magic on that old drive.
You need firmware tools, not fridge.

Doesn't the drive have 3 dead heads? Or can a weak head produce the same symptom, and if so, would a hot swap enable these weak heads to be accessed?

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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 30th, 2014, 15:27 
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michael chiklis wrote:
I do not think the real problem would be the low temperature of the fridge, rather than condensation would form on the platters.
Condensation might kill heads, then bad heads could cause further damage to platters

I used to think the same as you. However, according to Doomer, condensation cannot form unless a surface and the surrounding air are at different temperatures. Yet, if you read Seagate's product manuals, one of the reasons for the breather hole is to "allow condensation inside the hard disc to escape". This sounds a little ambiguous to me.

Barracuda 7200.10 PATA Product Manual:
http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/supp ... 02369f.pdf

Quote:
3.2
Breather filter hole precautions

Caution: Do not cover, seal, or insert any object into this hole.

This hole has two purposes:
• To allow condensation inside the hard disc to escape
• To allow air pressure inside the hard disc to equalize with ambient pressure


EE25.2 Series Product Manual:
http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/supp ... 48541e.pdf

Quote:
3.3 Breather filter hole precautions

Caution: Do not cover, seal, or insert any object into this hole.

This hole has two purposes:
• To allow condensation inside the hard disc to escape
• To allow air pressure inside the hard disc to equalize with ambient pressure

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ReclaiMe
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 30th, 2014, 18:13 
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Given 25C room temperature, 40% relative humidity, and volume of a hard drive 0.0001 m3, it holds about 0.001 gram of water inside the drive.
If you cool it down to -20C, about 0.0009 gram will condense, assuming the breather hole is sealed (I don't think the breather hole is of much use in this case, as there will be not much air exchange between inside and outside the hard drive).

Not sure we should be worried about this amount?
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fzabkar
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: May 30th, 2014, 18:26 
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I would think that even the minutest amount of condensation on a platter would crash a head.

I wonder if this could be a subject for MythBusters, although it's probably a bit too geeky for the general audience, unless Jamie could work out a way to blow something up. :-)

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Michael S
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: June 2nd, 2014, 7:43 
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Ok, I think I'll forget about the fridge!

Quote:
Doesn't the drive have 3 dead heads? Or can a weak head produce the same symptom, and if so, would a hot swap enable these weak heads to be accessed?


Is this something I can try or should I send it to the experts? Presumably it involves swapping boards while maintaining power.
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Spildit
 Post subject: Re: Quantum Fireball Plus AS 60GB
PostPosted: March 20th, 2015, 19:20 
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Before people start flaming i'm very sorry for bringing this topic up again after all of this time, yes, i do know the topic is almost one year old !

I'm curiose to know if there was any progress regarding this drive, or how it did end up,

My interpretation after playing a little bit with AS drives ( http://www.hddoracle.com/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=1192 ) and taking intro consideration the following log :


Michael S wrote:
Sorry must've been something wrong with my wiring. The interface returns the following (the errors are at the end):

SpinUp
Init RPM=0000
hotRpm=0000
RECAL recalStep 0000 recalStep 0001 recalStep 0002 recalStep 0003 recalStep 0004 recalStep 000E recalStep 0009 recalStep 0005 recalStep 0005 71 recalStep 0005 7E recalStep 0005 80 recalStep 0005 recalStep 0005 recalStep 0007 HdMap 0E
recalStep 0008 recalStep 000E recalStep 000A recalStep 000F recalStep 000E recalStep 000C recalStep 0011 RdFile 0E
RS #01 FFF7 01 0000 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0000 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0000 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0000 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0000 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0000 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0000 R EC 0019
RS #01 FFF7 01 0000 R EC 001B
RdFile 65
RS #01 FFF7 01 0001 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0001 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0001 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0001 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0001 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0001 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0001 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0001 R EC 001B
RdFile 06
RS #01 FFF7 01 0003 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0003 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0003 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0003 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0003 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0003 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0003 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0003 R EC 001B
RdFile 05
RS #01 FFF7 01 0005 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0005 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0005 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0005 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0005 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0005 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0005 R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF7 01 0005 R EC 001B
RdFile 01
RS #01 FFF3 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF3 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF3 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF3 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF3 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF3 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF3 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF3 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFF0 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
RS #01 FFEF 01 000A R EC 001B
err=0011
ROMPowerOn err=0020


Is that at power up the drive tries to read/write to the MODULES on the SA.
On this drive it attempts to read file 0E, 65, 06, 05, 01

Those are :

ID0E = SysTracks Adaptives
ID65 = SA BAD-List
ID06 = Overlay
ID05 = Module with data
ID01 = Overlay

On all the attempts you get error 001B. For your drive that error is :

1B= Error in writing to system sector

So i would say that your drive isn't reading/writting any SA modules at start up at all, and this might be because of bad heads (very likely) or bad blocks on SA (not very likely as there are several copies of modules of each head as exemplifyed here) :

Image

Further testing would be required, to check if it's possible with a firmware tool to read firmware modules from other heads (rather than head 0) but at any rate this is NOT just a problem with bad smart or bad defect list, as ALL the modules that the drive attempts to initiate are listed with errors.

To @OP - Please let me know if you still have this drive with you and if you made any progress with it.

Regards.

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