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 Post subject: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need advise
PostPosted: November 6th, 2014, 16:42 
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Hello!

I was moving a home server i have from an old chassis to a new one. it has 16 Sata Drives connected to the supermicro chassis/backplane (8 on adaptec 5805 and 8 on a highpoint tech 4320), and another 6 drives connected to the motherboard sata ports via a separate 2u supermico chassis and its backplane (and some 36" sata cables going to the 6 motherboard ports). At one point in testing i went to power up the server and there was a short or something causing the PSU to click so i quickly cut power to the server.

now, None of the drives (22 of them!) will spin up/ power on after this electrical incident. Im devastated as we are talking 22 drives. Ive been doing alot of reading on these forums and google so im realistic about my chances of recovery and aware of the issues i will face during recovery for the 16 drives in various raid-5 and raid-6s.

my question is as i have several drives to work with (many in raid6 or raid 5) im willing to totally loose a drive or two doing " risky" options. (i.e. ive read about bypassing the TVS or other resistors, working for some users with a simillar problem.). My other options are 500$+ pro datarecovery firms, or the local electronics shop who wants 98$ just to look at the electronics of the drive (then call me with price / options / or to say there is nothing that can be done, im not even sure they will do more than try it on their own PC).

I have a multimeter and have experience Soldering (but minor stuff like removing resistors or soldering wires to PCB solder points). What ive been trying to do is take a few drives i have that a 100% good (drives un related to this issue) and comparing points on its PCB to some of the bad ones i have.

Some of the drives are:

Seagate 3tb ST3000DM001 (SMOOTH AAAAJ V5 / TWN8U217) 100664987 revb

Samsung HD103UJ 1.5 and 2TBs PEGUD2L7D50688

WD WD30EZRX-00MMMB0 3tb -

Toshiba

one thing ive noticed in my good PCB to bad PCB comparison is that if i set my meter to 20vDC and touch point A in the pict and point B i get 11.95v, touching point A and C,D,E gives me nothing. Where as on my good, working PCB, doing the same exact point A, i get 5v on C, and 12v on D,E,B

Also, if i touch point A again and touch any of the 3 points connecting to the motor on the good pcb i get 3.76v on the bad PCB i get 0

Can anyone sugget any other points i should test in this same method or perhaps a different method?

In terms of swaping PCBs, i only have this option (with me) for the seagate as I have the same model drive (and capacity) but i have to check its exact PCB number and revision to see if it matches up exactly with one of the broken segates For the samsung drives i have working samsung drives but the capacity is not the same as the fried drives.

Any help would be greatly apprecaited, i feel im a bit uniquie in that i can possibly sacrifce a few drives if needed since i had an AMZING 22 get fried at one time.

thank you


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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 6th, 2014, 17:48 
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It appears that your Seagate drive sustained an overvoltage on the +5V supply. You need to attend to the PSU problem before you do anything else.

As for repairing the drive, hopefully all you will need to do will be to snip the 5V TVS diode and flow a blob of solder over each of the zero-ohm resistors. Measure the resistance between 5V and ground before you power up the board, just to confirm that the short has been removed. If you wish to play safe, then you could swap the PCB, but you will need to transfer the serial flash memory chip from patient to donor. Depending on your soldering skill, that may have greater risks.


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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 6th, 2014, 18:34 
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Great, im going to attempt this once i hear back.

just so im clear, I want to gently snip away (i.e. remove) 5v TVS and then solder over the two zero ohm resistors that you put a yellow box around. (soldier them individual so that there are 2 blobs of soldier when im done)

Then once done that, to test it, set my multimeter to 200 OHM and place red probe on one of the now vacant spots where 5v TVS used to be, and the black probe goes to ground (but where is ground? is it the 3 prongs of the sata power connector above "P1" in my original image. assuming ive placed the probes in the correct positions im then looking for the multimeter to jump to some number and return to zero, correct?

----extra info / clarification ---
a FYI Since i now know that those burnt looking zero-ohm resistors (the ones that im going to solder over), are 5v, i just now fed power to the PCB and tested (multimeter on 20v DC) between on of the test points between the burnt Zero-ohm resistor and "E" on my picture and it showed 5vdc. (if that seems to contra-dict my first post, please know that in my first post/first picture i was measuring from where the white arrow points to, right by "A" (i even put a red transparent rectangle to show the exact test point).
----extra info / clarification ---


i cant tell you and the forum how much i appreciate the help with this, i was totally dead inside several hours ago when my 22 drives were nuked... I hope i can return the favor somehow even if this doesn't work.

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 6th, 2014, 20:08 
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additional info (please see my reply above as well)
If i set my multimeter to 200 ohm and place the probes on either side of the 2 burnt Zero-Ohm resistors (the resistors in the yellow box in fvr's image) it shows zero

If i do the same to the 2 zero-ohm resistors above the burnts ones, (thus the good ones) its shows .2-.4

When i do the same to either side of the 12v TVS diode it shows zero

and when i do the same to either side of 5v TVS diode it shows .2


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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 6th, 2014, 23:53 
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When your multimeter shows "zero", you are probably seeing the overrange indication. That is, you are seeing an open circuit. You should see the same thing when you hold the probes apart in the air.

A reading of 0.2 is a short circuit.

These readings confirm that your 5V diode is shorted and that the resistors are open circuit. The zero-ohm resistors behave like fuses. What I have asked you to do is to remove the shorted diode (either by snipping it with sharp, flat jawed, flush cutters, or by desoldering it), and to bridge the "fuses" with solder. Then remeasure the resistance between the +5V pins and ground pins in the SATA power connector.

http://pinouts.ru/Power/sata-power_pinout.shtml

The alternative is to replace the board and transfer the 8-pin chip identified in the following photo:

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-144375849714 ... 4987-1.gif

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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 7th, 2014, 0:00 
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In the case of the Samsung HD103UJ drive, measure the resistances of the 5V TVS diode and the adjacent "fuse".

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/HD103UJ_TVS.jpg

If the diode is shorted, remove it, then bridge the fuse with a blob of solder. Retest for shorts before powering up.

Please confirm that your power supply is good.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 7th, 2014, 0:03 
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In the case of the WD30EZRX-00MMMB0, measure the resistances of D3, D4, R64 and R67 near the SATA power connector.

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-144375849714 ... d-fw-5.gif

http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/bi ... diodes.jpg

I suspect that D3 and R67 may have been damaged.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 7th, 2014, 3:28 
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Thank you, i really appreciate your patience and taking the time to explain this to me. I spent the last 3 hours practicing soldiering on trash HDs and Motherboards (practicing similar size of what i need to soldier do on my HDs PCBs) Im amatuer level with soldering but due to the small size (and my low grade soldering equipment) ive decided to bring a few of the drives to the local electronics firm where there is a much better soldier to soldier over the resistors and to remove the diode.

I will report back tomorrow afternoon!

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 7th, 2014, 10:44 
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Hi, i wanted to update with the exact toshiba and samsung info from several of the drives as well:

I have 2x Toshibas (used to show up as hitachi to HW raid)
9F14312 FW AB0 (3tb) says toshiba and Hitachi on the label PCB: 220 0A90380 01

2nd WD 3tb:
WD 30EZRX MDL: WD30EZRX - 00MMMB0 PCB:REVS 2060-771698-004


SAMSUNG ( (1TB) - lots of these
SEC-HD103UJ (B) REV A F1_3D PCB (a few letter seem to be blocked off by the sata/power connector): PAURCA8EA51644 NITY 32MB REV5 1-00206B R00

SAMSUNG (1.5TB) _ several of these
SEC-HD154UI (B) REV. A (1500GB R54 / 32M) PCB (a few letters seem to be blocked off by the sata/power connector): INITY R00 8/16M REV. 06

thanks again, Ive updated the post with this info too.


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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 7th, 2014, 15:56 
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If the local electronics firm will be handling the job, then ask them to replace the diode(s).

See my FAQ for more info:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/HDD/TVS_diode_FAQ.html

The HD154UI TVS diode configuration appears to be similar to the HD103UJ.

The Toshiba/Hitachi drive has two TVS diodes and low-ohm resistors near the SATA power connector. Measure their resistances.

http://ep.yimg.com/ay/yhst-144375849714 ... 6081-7.gif

I am hopeful that your Seagate and Samsung drives will have survived without internal damage, but I'm not so hopeful for the WD and Hitachi. Best of luck, though.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 7th, 2014, 18:44 
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well some not so good new, I went to the electronics firm and from the seagate drive they removed the diode and the 2 zero ohm resistors and soldiered where the 2x zero ohms were.
Attachment:
File comment: The work done to the 1st seagate:
image1.JPG
image1.JPG [ 3.28 MiB | Viewed 11187 times ]

I then applied power and there was a faint pop and a slight burning smell so i removed power about 5 seconds or less after enabling power. when i took the PCB off again the slight burn smell is concentrated on/around the rectangular contact point of the HD case (the one with several pins, not the 3 pin contact that is near the drive's motor).

I didnt see your message about having the diode replaced so that was not done (would have have helped maybe). Im pretty sure, but not positive there was no burnt smell around the rectangular contact until after the diode/resistor mod was done.

to recap this one seagate 3tb is the only drive thus far that was had any work done to it (beyond taking OHM/voltage reading)

See the pics below, in the mean time im going to update this thread with the resistance reading requested from the other drives.

for now i have 2 quick questions:

1) should i NOT be applying sata power to just the PCB any of these drive and taking various DC voltage readings? (ive only done this to 2 of the drives and both were less than 2 minutes worth)

2) for 2 of these bad seagate drives, i just today was able to get same size working 3tb seagate drives with matching number and "Rev" revision on their PCB (and firmware version), can i move the PCBs from good drive to bad drive and try to power up on these seagates? (or does seagate require a chip to be moved from bad to good PCB, first)

thanks!

please See the comments left for each of the 3 images attached below


Attachments:
File comment: and an un-touched PCB from a 2nd bad seagate drive
image1 (1).JPG
image1 (1).JPG [ 2.38 MiB | Viewed 11187 times ]
File comment: the burn on the Western Digital Drive
IMG_4377.JPG
IMG_4377.JPG [ 2.66 MiB | Viewed 11187 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 8th, 2014, 11:28 
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Jamesg,
You should be aware that removing TVS diodes is risky to the drives and they should only be run afterward on a very good, controlled power supply with a UPS. Those diodes protect from surges, without them it could cause serious damage. Could even make recovery impossible.

If the data on the server is important, you might want to consider sending it to a pro rather than DIY. My standard rate for a RAID that size would be $7650 (less if the drive order is known). Depending on where in the US you're located you should be able to find somewhere with comparable rates.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 8th, 2014, 12:09 
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Jamesg,

about the burned WD, I am having the same issue with my WD24EZRX:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=29824

Still waiting for the replacement PCB, then planing to swap the Flash (sometimes called EEPROM), seems to be the standard way with a fried PCB for WD drives and hoping nothing else (like PreAmps) took damage.

Try taking better pictures with less reflexions, so the printings on the ICs can be read.


Jamesg wrote:
1) should i NOT be applying sata power to just the PCB any of these drive and taking various DC voltage readings? (ive only done this to 2 of the drives and both were less than 2 minutes worth)

Ideally you'd have a proper Lab Power supply with current limiting, this can reduce further damage.

Otherwise try measuring resistance or with the "Diode check" of components and traces, then compare your results to a working PCB, just applying normal power via an ATX power supply could fry the rest in case there are stil problems present.

Of course, a broken power supply will cause that kind of damage.


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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 8th, 2014, 14:09 
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Hi. I fear you are making thinks worse. The tvs protection devices should have been replace and anybody should know it would be risky to replace fuses with blobs of solder. It might be the damage was already done though now one can not be certain.

The WD board with the splattered Smooth ic will probably have a damaged preamp. That would mean the pcb would require replacing, the adaptive info transferred and also the headstack would need replacing. Also I hope you are doing your tests using a replacement power supply and not the one from the server!


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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 8th, 2014, 14:36 
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@Jamesg, the damage to the motor controller IC on the WD PCB would suggest that the overvoltage event was very serious. The round burn mark is on the +5V side whereas the linear burn mark is on the +12V side. That would suggest that both supplies may have been affected. What are the resistances of the TVS diodes and zero-ohm resistors?

The Seagate case would suggest that the overvoltage may have taken out the preamp. The preamp is powered from the external +5V supply and the onboard -5V supply. Did you confirm that your power source was good, and did you test the board for shorts before powering it up?

Can you measure the diodes and resistors for your other drives? That will give us a better idea of what happened. Also, if you are able, I propose that we measure the onboard supply voltages of your Seagate and Samsung PCBs.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 8th, 2014, 14:50 
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Measure the resistances of these components:
Attachment:
seagate_TVS.JPG
seagate_TVS.JPG [ 187.05 KiB | Viewed 11083 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 8th, 2014, 17:30 
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Thanks again for the replies, I finally was able to sleep for about 12 hours after 3 days of no sleep. I will now take the requested measurements and report back.

here are 2 answers for now:

1) the power supply that caused this issue in the first place has been removed and placed in the trash from the first moment i realized my first drive was not spinning up (several days ago)- so these 22 bad drives were only exposed to that bad PSU the one or 2 times that actually caused this issue.

2) The power supply ive been using since the beginning is/are 2, external power supplies that have a molex and sata power head ONLY (the type that plug into the wall and come with the IDE/SATA to USB adaptors you buy) I know both of these HD power supplies are good as they work fine on other working drives i have. (i also used one of these at the electronics firm yesterday when they removed the diode and skipped the resistors)


Ive also finally figured out WHY this all happened. On the TYAN motherboard i was transfering from a large desktop case to my new supermicro 3U 16-hotswap bay chassis, there is a 4 pin "floppy drive power" style connector labled "Aux Power" For years, in the old chassis and on the old power supply i had this connector connected to one of the 4pin connectors coming from my old power supply and there were NO issues (for years). For whatever reason, when i moved this tyan motherboard to my new chassis and thus its new power supply i again attached this connector to the super micro's power supply (at my last step of moving) - that caused this entire issue! (see the attached picture). Had i not made this connection, i would not have 22 dead drives. I dont know why this was not an issue on the old PSU, but was on the new PSU. I assumed this connector was used to provide additional power to the IPMI card or maybe PCI-E cards, but infact it doesnt take in power, it PUT OUT POWER, so it should never be connected to a PSU. I dont know why it was not an issue when connected to my old PSU, but for years it was not.

Attachment:
File comment: cause of all this
Cause of SHORT.png
Cause of SHORT.png [ 4.6 MiB | Viewed 11054 times ]

(SEE ATTACHED IMAGE PLS)
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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 8th, 2014, 18:28 
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I know the type of power adapter you're talking about. They offer far less protection than a computer power supply. At the very least use a computer power supply connected to a UPS and splice the green wire to one of the black wires that go to the main motherboard connector. This will turn the power supply on without needing a computer.

Trust me with the TVS diodes you need really, really, really clean power or you will cause permanent damage that could make recovery impossible or at least run up the cost. The power coming out of your socket is not clean, and those molex adapters are nothing more than a glass fuse connected to a transformer which will pass through all the fluctuations in voltage. A healthy drive can handle some of that, but not one with the diodes removed.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 8th, 2014, 18:36 
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I wonder if your new PSU has two electrically separate +12V rails, say 12VA and 12VB. If so, then perhaps you have connected the two rails in parallel via the motherboard, in which case they would have been fighting with each other.

A PSU regulates by sensing its output voltage and then increasing or decreasing the drive in accordance with changes in the load current so as to maintain a constant output voltage. If the 12VA supply is sensing the 12VB supply's output, or vice versa, then that could explain the catastrophic overvoltages.

http://www.playtool.com/pages/psumultir ... rails.html

Quote:
By the way, in case you're ever tempted to hook the independent 12 volt rails together (I've seen people on the Internet who think this is a good idea), don't do it. Your 12 volt rails may have different ideas about what voltage they should set their rails to. One may be quite a bit different than another. They're separate rails, after all, and they have their own circuitry which controls the voltage. They're bound to vary a bit. And if they're just a little different then you can draw lots of current when you connect them together because each of the output circuits try to force the voltage on the same wires to a different value. That causes either a nice orderly shutdown from the over-current protection or smoke and sparks. There are some power supplies which have switches which allow you to gang the rails together. Once you've set the switch properly it's okay to connect them.

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 Post subject: Re: 22 drives wont spin up after MB/Chasis short :/ need ad
PostPosted: November 8th, 2014, 20:01 
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After a private conversation, it appears that the OP forgot to measure the resistance before applying power. It turns out that there is an additional fault on the PCB (10 ohms on the +5V supply). I suspect that one of the switchmode regulators is the culprit, possibly the lower of the two 7157B chips in the attachment.

I would measure the resistance between ground (the screw hole) and each of the 3 coils.


Attachments:
PCB_Vcore_Vio.jpg
PCB_Vcore_Vio.jpg [ 289.77 KiB | Viewed 11027 times ]

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