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 Post subject: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 12:46 
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USB WD10SMZW 11Y0TS0
Usb PCB 2060 800069 001 Rev P1 No Com Connection pins
date: 01 Oct 2018

User saw erase Notice. Pressed ok, And Fast formatted drive. Total time under 2 min.

I Searched With RSturio, Only 17 file Total 300 Mb at Begginning part. Looked inside drive with hex editor. Fully 0 except that 300 MB. User told There was 80 GB data before .

How Could It Be Full 0 within that short time? . Is it about drive architecture so allow that very quickly? That is a new drive , more unknown things ://

And What is compatible SATA PCB, any ideas?

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 13:09 
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FWIU these newer WD's (SMR) work in a different way to normal drives. They have a translator in the SA that knows when a sector has data or not. So if the sector being read has no data, the translator tells the drive to report zero's without actually reading the sector. I presume this is done via some sort of bitmap. So reformatting the drive is just a matter of clearing the SA translator rather than wiping the whole drive so it is much faster.

I must stress this is my understanding of what happens in these drives, anyone please correct me if I am wrong as I have been known to talk out of my ass........ We are all still learning about the FW behind these SMR drives.

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 13:27 
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Edit,
No erase notice. Talked again with customer. He told only deleted partition on disk manager. And made a new one. That's it. Nothing more.

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 13:31 
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ddrecovery wrote:
FWIU these newer WD's (SMR) work in a different way to normal drives. They have a translator in the SA that knows when a sector has data or not. So if the sector being read has no data, the translator tells the drive to report zero's without actually reading the sector. I presume this is done via some sort of bitmap. So reformatting the drive is just a matter of clearing the SA translator rather than wiping the whole drive so it is much faster.

I must stress this is my understanding of what happens in these drives, anyone please correct me if I am wrong as I have been known to talk out of my ass........ We are all still learning about the FW behind these SMR drives.


Thanks for response.
Your info gives me hint what happened. It's useful info for me. But customer want back drive. I am not sure is there any way to solve this case.

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 14:06 
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Try it on a new Palmer or Charger drive, you will get the same result.
Deleted is deleted. Also if you check these drives will report they support "TRIM"


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WD20SMZW-11JW8S0-TRIM.png
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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 14:17 
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digisupport wrote:
Try it on a new Palmer or Charger drive, you will get the same result.
Deleted is deleted. Also if you check these drives will report they support "TRIM"

I saw it in properties TRIM at Rstudio.

So No change to recover with known information about this drives ?
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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 15:01 
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Yesterday, I purposely filled in a healthy external drive with this model. I purposely selected a different pattern other than 00s.
I used 99s.

After filling in, I disconnected the drive, reconnected it, initialize it and created one NTFS volume.
All empty space now reports with 00s (not 99s).

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 15:12 
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labtech wrote:
Yesterday, I purposely filled in a healthy external drive with this model. I purposely selected a different pattern other than 00s.
I used 99s.

After filling in, I disconnected the drive, reconnected it, initialize it and created one NTFS volume.
All empty space now reports with 00s (not 99s).

Interesting. I guess that proves the theory is correct. Thanks for sharing.

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 15:15 
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Look like data gone totally.
Here is some info about SSD TRIM function.

https://www.easeus.com/mac-file-recover ... overy.html

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 15:25 
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Welcome, Luke.

On SSDs, TRIM implications habe been known.
On HDDs, it is new. So, learning how things are happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 15:50 
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labtech wrote:
Welcome, Luke.

On SSDs, TRIM implications habe been known.
On HDDs, it is new. So, learning how things are happening.

I Iam new one in DR ))

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 10th, 2019, 18:19 
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ISTM that one could determine a drive's TRIM support and subsequent read behaviour by examining Identify Device words 69 and 169.

IDENTIFY_DEVICE_DATA structure contains the data retrieved by an ATA identify device data command (0xEC):

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/ddi/content/ata/ns-ata-_identify_device_data

Quote:
USHORT ReadZeroAfterTrimSupported : 1;
USHORT DeterministicReadAfterTrimSupported : 1;

ATA/ATAPI Command Set - 2 (ACS-2):
http://www.t13.org/documents/UploadedDocuments/docs2011/d2015r7-ATAATAPI_Command_Set_-_2_ACS-2.pdf

Attachment:
TRIM_command.JPG
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The reasons for the desirability of deterministic read behaviour after TRIM are explained in the following article which raises several security concerns:

TRIM: Behavior of Subsequent READs:
http://www.t10.org/ftp/t10/document.08/08-347r1.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 11th, 2019, 6:55 
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labtech wrote:
Yesterday, I purposely filled in a healthy external drive with this model. I purposely selected a different pattern other than 00s.
I used 99s.

After filling in, I disconnected the drive, reconnected it, initialize it and created one NTFS volume.
All empty space now reports with 00s (not 99s).


If you would save translator modules in advance, and after initilizing drive and receieving complet 00s , you would put back translator modules back, you would get almost all yours 99S everywhere again, even after formating with TRIM.

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 11th, 2019, 7:02 
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Recovering deleted files or formatted drives is going to be fun.
Need to ask client to bring a translator backup to make it possible :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 11th, 2019, 7:10 
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DR-Kiev wrote:
labtech wrote:
Yesterday, I purposely filled in a healthy external drive with this model. I purposely selected a different pattern other than 00s.
I used 99s.

After filling in, I disconnected the drive, reconnected it, initialize it and created one NTFS volume.
All empty space now reports with 00s (not 99s).


If you would save translator modules in advance, and after initilizing drive and receieving complet 00s , you would put back translator modules back, you would get almost all yours 99S everywhere again, even after formating with TRIM.

Good to know, many thanks.
This was a new drive ready for storing a new customer's data, so I did not bother to save the firmware on it.

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 11th, 2019, 8:45 
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digisupport wrote:
Recovering deleted files or formatted drives is going to be fun.
Need to ask client to bring a translator backup to make it possible :wink:


i have some ideas which i wll try to implement soon...

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 11th, 2019, 9:38 
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According to SMR overlap track designed, hdd wants to get data posion and rewrite the data onto the new track and destroy old data in that track.(trim/unmap). This method speed up the hard drive.i think this equel to SSD trim system. But it has bit defferant.

windows 7,8,10 have this TRIM command always enable and trim canbe disabled.

i noticed This SMR drives have huge area of bad sectors and most of time first 100000 sectrors. This result always ask " format " and most of computer guys try to recover after formating.

I think this has not only a single Traslator. After formating all data wipeout. I think even we have SA info, data cant be recovered.


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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 11th, 2019, 9:40 
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pepe wrote:
digisupport wrote:
Recovering deleted files or formatted drives is going to be fun.
Need to ask client to bring a translator backup to make it possible :wink:


i have some ideas which i wll try to implement soon...


Into what?

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 11th, 2019, 9:51 
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Case closed for me. But topic still alive . I have sent back customer drive. ((

I still wonder this case. So many normal user would meet this situation in future. Usually computer repair shops doing that delete partition make new one. And search drive. O lala data wiped. Kinda nightmare

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 Post subject: Re: Strange. Fast format and full 0 .USB WD10SMZW
PostPosted: October 11th, 2019, 11:39 
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that's the point, it is not wiped.

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