M.2 NVMe pcie to USB 3.1/ 3.2 casing

[terminator2]

Hi team
after all my attempts failed to get right adapter , finally I asked customer to fit SSD back in laptop. My plan is to boot laptop from live USB and make sector by sector image of the SSD on USB hard disk.
Now my concern is cloning software should boot from this UFEI based laptop (Dell XPS ultra slim laptop) and identify USB chipset as well as motherboard chip (having integrated drivers for both ) and clone SSD.
Maximus -- Congrats for new version of HDDSUPERCLONE in new format with more advanced features.
I have downloaded latest X64 version and tomorrow I will try to clone SSD.
I will report outcome.

[fzabkar]

So lets look at the adapter boards. The PCIe board appears to be for SAS. Then the external board converts the SAS to NVMe. The external board appears to get power from a standard SATA connector. I think the required driver would be for the PCIe SAS board.

ISTM that U3 (the square IC) could be an intelligent switch, in which case the "driver" would simply select the PCIe slot or the m.2 NVMe connector as the target device. U2 and U4 would then only need to be analogue switches rather than PCIe redrivers.

Using such a two-way adaptor rather than a dedicated adaptor for each device would enable software to disconnect and reconnect the device without powering it down.

[maximus]

Maximus -- Congrats for new version of HDDSUPERCLONE in new format with more advanced features.
I have downloaded latest X64 version and tomorrow I will try to clone SSD.

Just remember this:

Code:

SPECIAL NOTE FOR NVME SSD DRIVES:
NVME SSD drives will not show up with the default passthrough mode. You must use Generic source device mode.

[terminator2]

So lets look at the adapter boards. The PCIe board appears to be for SAS. Then the external board converts the SAS to NVMe. The external board appears to get power from a standard SATA connector. I think the required driver would be for the PCIe SAS board.

ISTM that U3 (the square IC) could be an intelligent switch, in which case the "driver" would simply select the PCIe slot or the m.2 NVMe connector as the target device. U2 and U4 would then only need to be analogue switches rather than PCIe redrivers.

Using such a two-way adaptor rather than a dedicated adaptor for each device would enable software to disconnect and reconnect the device without powering it down.

OK Thanks a lot , I had forgotten that settings.

[fzabkar]

I contacted the seller of that dual slot adapter and was told that the markings on the ICs are as follows:

NXP
LO4083A in this line I was unable to properly read the letter O or the #0
AS377.101
ZSD1516 in this line I was unable to properly read the Z or #2

RCO5133PT
242B1
1740

PST54426
73TG4
A3KS

I haven't been able to identify "RCO5133PT" (or RC05133PT), but the other ICs are ...

CBTL04083A, NXP, 4 differential channel, 2-to-1 multiplexer/demultiplexer switch for PCI Express Gen3, HVQFN42:
https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/data-sheet/CBTL04083A_CBTL04083B.pdf

TPS54426, Texas Instruments, 4.5V to 18V Input, 4-A Synchronous Step-Down Converter:
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tps54426.pdf

ISTM that RC05133PT is a controller, possibly a custom programmed MCU, which controls the SEL and XSD01/XSD23 pins of the two 2-to-1 muxes. Without a driver or tool, I can't see how it is possible to make use of this adaptor.

Attachments

CBTL04083A_B_funct_diag.gif (15.62 KiB) Viewed 23018 times

[fzabkar]

This appears to be the setup for this card:

https://c1.neweggimages.com/ProductImageCompressAll1280/AA6W_13176379924883017768qj9RgwhN.jpg

https://www.newegg.com/p/0Y3-00M7-00081

Here is a card with a similar set of chips:

Innocard PE0406 PCIe Gen3 / 4 Lanes to Slimline SAS (SFF-8654) Adapter & PCIe Gen3 / 4 Lanes to Mini SAS HD (SFF-8643) Adapter:

https://www.newegg.com/innocard-pe0406-pcie-to-mini-sas-hd-pcie-to-slimline-sas/p/0Y3-00M7-00036

https://c1.neweggimages.com/ProductImageCompressAll1280/AA6W_131547782339129711GEozQWmlUj.jpg

Instead of switching between two slots, it switches between two cables (SFF-8643 and SFF-8654).

"If two cables insert, ... SFF-8654 is priorty." (sic)

It would be interesting if Newegg would provide a driver.


This appears to be the manufacturer:

http://innocard.com.tw

http://innocard.com.tw/Products/Gen_3/Golden_Edge/PCIe_x4_Series/PE0406.html
http://innocard.com.tw/Products/Gen_3/Adapter/PCIe_slot_series/PA414A.html

I have sent them an email.

[fzabkar]

I'm wondering if the controller autodetects the PCIe/NVMe devices and sets up a direct, transparent link to the OS. This would then mean that no driver were required. But this doesn't correspond with the claims made in earlier posts and it wouldn't allow the OS to select a particular device in those cases where both slots were occupied.

[maximus]

I think some things have been lost in translation, due to the language barrier. Sometimes communication seems clear, and then other time not so much.

In any case, I have received my order, and performed a couple experiments, with less than positive results. Connecting the device after booting results in a complete system lockup, and booting with it connected and then power cycling the device causes loss of connection to the device, which does not come back.

Just from looking at the overall setup. I don't think there is a driver. It looks like the NVMe device is pretty much directly connected to the PCIe buss through the boards and cable. I will be performing more experiments on a different computer, and also with the most recent updated version of Windows 10. The link I referenced earlier states that U2 is supposed to be hot pluggable, but I have yet to see that work.

[fzabkar]

Could we see a close-up of the small PCB in the Icy Dock?

[maximus]

Could we see a close-up of the small PCB in the Icy Dock?

I was going to get to that... here is the best pic I managed to get.

[fzabkar]

It looks like there's nothing other than a 3.3V DC-DC converter.

ELM613NDC, Elm-Tech, 4A, 30V, 500kHz, synchronous step-down DC/DC converter, 4.0V - 30Vin, marking MT3905, SOP-8:
http://www.elm-tech.com/en/products/dcdc-converter/elm613-series/elm613-series.pdf

[maximus]

I just did a test on another computer, and it did not lock up when plugging it in after boot. But this is only tested in Linux so far. It had the same result when booted with it connected, as once it was disconnected there was a 30 second lockup when listing devices, and then it would not come back after reconnecting. I think I need to do a test on this computer with Windows 10, which will take some time.

My instinct is that the only way a power cycle will work is if the PCIe driver of the OS supports it.

[maximus]

I would like to give a quick first impression of the icy dock. It got a little bit warm on the last test, so I pulled the cover (heat sink) off, and touched the NVMe itself, and it was only as warm as the heat sink. So at least it does seem to dissipate heat well. And the instructions only said to remove the film from one side of the pad and stick it to the heat sink, so this is with the other side of the film left on an only pressed onto the device, without sticking. Not ready to give it a 5 star rating or anything, but that is a good start.

[terminator2]

Happy ending to story

Finally I was successful to boot Dell XPS from winpe and extract all data.
Maximus unfortunately I did not cloned disk . I will give it a try this week.
Thank you all for all the help.
Sabrent USB 3.2 adapter seems to be well designed and rugged.

Attachments

[fzabkar]

Does the Sabrent enclosure use Realtek's bridge?

[fzabkar]

I'm wondering if the controller autodetects the PCIe/NVMe devices and sets up a direct, transparent link to the OS. This would then mean that no driver were required. But this doesn't correspond with the claims made in earlier posts and it wouldn't allow the OS to select a particular device in those cases where both slots were occupied.

From the manufacturer ...

They don't need drivers or tools.

When you use PE0406 AIC, the default is MINI SAS HD cable.

If you plug MINI SAS HD and SlimSAS cables simultaneously, the priority is SlimSAS cable.


When you use PA414A adapter, the default is PCIe x4 slot.

If you plug PCIe AIC and M.2 NVMe SSD simultaneously, the priority is M.2 NVMe SSD.

[maximus]

Sabrent USB 3.2 adapter seems to be well designed and rugged.

I have an older 3.0 version, and I think it is good. It has only seen a little use, but there have been no stability issues with the Samsung NVMe I put in it. I don't have any faulty NVMe drives to test with it to see how it reacts.

Part of the reason there has been no work on a passthrough mode, let alone a direct mode for NVMe in HDDSuperClone is that I don't see it as any good if you can't power cycle the device if it locks up, unless you reboot the computer. With USB you can power cycle it. And so far my testing with this other alternative method is not yielding good results with being able to power cycle, so USB still seems best at this time.

[maximus]

To get back to my experimentation with the Icy Dock. After more research, it appears that the only way to hot plug an NVMe is if the computer motherboard actually supports PCIe hot plugging. And most do not. They might support it if the board has on-board SFF-8643 connectors. You would need to have a cutting edge motherboard to possibly support it. And even though I have one very new computer, it does not support it. So I think that is the end of my testing of that. It is a nice convenience to be connected externally, but it does not properly suit the purpose of being able to power cycle if needed.

[maximus]

Update on the U2 adapter. I updated Windows 10 to the latest version on the computer that doesn't lock up when hot plugging the NVMe, with new results. If I start the computer with the NVMe connected, and then disconnect it, it doesn't seem to show back up again when plugged back in (have only tested this once so far). But if I boot with it disconnected, and the connect it afterwards, it will show up and disappear when plugged in and unplugged, and it can be power cycled. So the hot plugging is working. This is an older (8 years?) ASUS P8Z77-V motherboard. There are no options in BIOS for PCI hotplugging. The plot thickens...

[maximus]

So I tried to do the same thing with the latest version of Xubuntu, and hot plugging the NVMe device does not work. So the end of that story.

But to go a bit more off topic, one of the requirements for the direct AHCI mode of HDDSuperClone is the drive must be disabled (hidden) from the system, which requires some effort. But by default, plugging the NVMe drive in after booting does not enable it. So in that way it may make it possible for me to access it in a similar way as AHCI. But that would be much work, and I am not sure yet if it would even be worth it.

Does anyone think it would be worth the effort to be able to directly work with NVMe devices, with the ability to perform resets and power cycle with hot plugging? Or is it good enough to just use the USB adapter? And by worth the effort, I mean how many cases would even benefit from direct access vs USB adapter?