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 Post subject: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 29th, 2022, 19:16 
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Joined: November 29th, 2022, 18:20
Posts: 12
Location: Greece
Hey all

Just discovered this forum, tried my best to find my answer in it, but searching the terms brings all sorts of results, and i went through 3-4 pages of the proper category but i can't go to 450,
so if the answers to my questions exist somewhere, feel free to direct me to the right place!

My problem is a bit of a long story, i am an over all do-it-yourself person on as many fields as i can and one thing i've learned is to ask first before you get into actions you might regret.
Unfortunately, i hadn't come across this forum yet, so i did get a bit deep into this already, but anyway, here goes:

WD Gold starts ticking for me to realize it's the only drive not backed up out of 18 TB of storage (filled up).
This arrived right after emptying older hard drives and putting all the data in their right place and then a forest fire arrived and burned all the old hard drives away.
No recovery possible there, but then the ticking comes at data that had survived!
This is not important data, hence they were a perfect opportunity for me to try to extract them and experiment and if they go away, so be it!
It's a bit of ego, not necessity, to win the problem by getting the data out and then throw the drive away.
(away = store it with all the old hardware i have because i don't throw electronic waste out, i marry it for life!)

Anyway.. digressing..
to the very inexperienced with data recovery ear, this ticking sounded like a head problem and that's what youtube suggested a year ago with a minimal search.
Hard drive got stored aside, couple of months later i looked up the donor hard drive and then i studied on how to do a head change operation.
More months went by for me to build the confidence to do it and read as much as i can about it.
Some sources said it was possible if some clean room was achieved and that's what i did and it is now done but the harddrive would not allow the PC to POST so i started worrying about the board.

I had concluded it was the head because i remember hitting the drive with my chair as i had it lying on the floor at some point but anyway it turns out that this was the one drive of my 15 year experience with SATA that i had inserted (earlier) the SATA power cable backwards and broke the tab.
This led me to consider the possibility of having it being plugged backwards by accident at some point later (without realizing it) because now with the tab broken, this is possible to do and being a bit busy with dealing with fires and data transfers, maybe i did.

Swapped board with the identical donor, the hard drive is perfectly recognized by BIOS as the drive that it is but as you professionals know already, now the data/info of the previous drive need to be transferred to the new board.
Here's where the problem gets challenging... the hard drive has no BIOS (8 pin) chip i can retract data from.
So my options are a)to transfer the IC chip as it is and i have seen that working on some cases (internet/youtube) or b)diagnose the board and replace problematic parts from the donor board which is, i believe, trickier than soldering tiny contacts, because the new component might blow again if the problem is elsewhere, leaving me with two useless boards.

So, thinking of (a) :
My soldering skills are not for that level but i think i can pull it off with the right equipment but i decided to call some pro around where i live (Greece) who can remove a chip and add it to another board more confidently than i can and he started telling me that because it's for a hard drive they usually charge thousands for data recovery etc. and i explained to him that i don't bring data to him but only a chip and he didn't call back so here comes my ego again, saying i don't need him, but i need a stable base, a k-tip to my solder iron (solder station: YH-836 with air already exists) and a magnifier for those OH GOD HOW TINY THEY ARE contacts!
Are the chances of succeeding in this too minimal to try?
Is there a way to transfer the cylinder/sector data from the chip even through (logically priced) paid software instead?
Even if i manage to pull this off, will i encounter encryption problems or things like that that i read around the forum?

The harddrive is a WD Gold internal 3.5" (WD2002FYPS-01U1B0)
Not inserting a link or image of the board because of reading about some delays in posting if links exist,
but you can look it up to see the missing BIOS chip but the contacts there from its predecessor design (i guess)
They are up top under the connectors.
Board # 2060-771642-001

Thank you all in advance, even for reading all the story!


Concerning the board, i checked it's two main diodes and their voltages seem alright, so i guess it wasn't a backwards power that did this because those would have blown out first (i suspect).
In case you are suggesting road (b), you should know that my board diagnosis skills are at such a level that i decide to solder tiny contacts instead! :|

And... oh yeah... i did swap the head back to its original..
Realizing it was the board, it kept bugging me that a new head might have new contact points or whatever HD-weird, so i went back to the operating table before "the dust settles"
Now this harddrive's life is ticking backwards, making my quest to do this a "now or never" endeavor!

harddrive data is just a collection of anime i was gathering when i was young and there's some sentimental value today in things gathered when the internet was under 1Mb (128k in my case back then).
it's partly nostalgia, partly hobby and love for electronics and learning to do new things and partly (50%) (hard to describe this one) treating PTSD by small victories because fighting fires for 3 days and nights leaves a mark and small victories like the one i am trying to pull of make it heal!

Funny thing is that my off-residence backup was attacked by the same fire at the same day, 25km away, but at the other side of the same mountain.
You can never have too many backups man...
Shared those details about the background only so people don't think i am someone trying to make money out of their tips!

I just had a "better to ask some pros" moment before i solder my nose to a WD board trying to see all those pins, :lol: that's all!


Thank you all !


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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 5:57 
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Joined: November 29th, 2022, 18:20
Posts: 12
Location: Greece
correction:
Existing solder station is a YH-853D* (correction) which carries the YH-907C soldering tool for which i think is not super easy to locate the K-tip but anyway.
Only share to correct the error above.


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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 6:19 
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Joined: October 3rd, 2005, 0:40
Posts: 4311
Location: Hungary
Hello,

it needs a man to read all this :P

i see a couple of contradictions:
- you talk about a 18TB drive while later mention WD2002FYPS-01U1B0, which is 2TB, can be shown as 1.8, so isn't a decimal dot missing somewhere?
- WD gold 18TB is He filled, i highly doubt you would ever be able to achieve a successful head transplant on such thing, not to mention the need to interact with frimware.
771642 board does not have external rom, it is internal to the MCU, but can be read and written with appropriate tools.
You can't damage the board by plugging power connector in reverse due to the missing alignment tab, because the connector has no contacts on the other side. The only way you could damage it is to plug it misaligned, but that's also very hard, if not impossible due to the housing of the connector.
The thing is bleeding from several wounds now, I don't think there would be many enthusiasts willing to hold your hand through this process, it is simply because it takes shitload of time to assist remotely in such situation, i would probably recover this drive several times before we get anywhere remotely. Yes, this costs some bucks but...
There are a lot of posts of fzabkar about how to do basic diag on PCBs, you may find them useful, but i am not even sure the problem is in the PCB, might be h.
You mentioned nowhere if the drive spins up at all, does it?

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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 6:36 
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Joined: November 29th, 2022, 18:20
Posts: 12
Location: Greece
pepe wrote:
it needs a man to read all this :P

Yes, thank you, I highly appreciate your time!

pepe wrote:
i see a couple of contradictions:
- you talk about a 18TB drive while later mention WD2002FYPS-01U1B0, which is 2TB, can be shown as 1.8, so isn't a decimal dot missing somewhere?

Yes, my bad, the total data i have stored is around 18TB in 8TB and 4TB drives backed up and cold stored.
This is indeed a 2TB drive we are talking about.

pepe wrote:
- WD gold 18TB is He filled, i highly doubt you would ever be able to achieve a successful head transplant on such thing, not to mention the need to interact with frimware.

lol yeah, not even considered trying such an operation (head change) on newer drives but those He-filled baloon makers might have a new business to consider :lol:

pepe wrote:
771642 board does not have external rom, it is internal to the MCU, but can be read and written with appropriate tools.

Now that's something i could look into, if it doesn't require those WD proprietary tools to do it. Even if it does, it's a valid option to try that first before desoldering.
i could send the two boards to someone who can do it too. but i can't send them to be soldered (explaining below)

pepe wrote:
You can't damage the board by plugging power connector in reverse due to the missing alignment tab, because the connector has no contacts on the other side. The only way you could damage it is to plug it misaligned, but that's also very hard, if not impossible due to the housing of the connector.

That's good to know, thank you! No way i have turned the PC on with a misaligned connector. 0% chance for that!
I don't hot plug them either!

pepe wrote:
You mentioned nowhere if the drive spins up at all, does it?

Yes, the drive spins alright with no weird sounds, reaching the point of idling until accessed.
No cylinder info to be found anywhere though (through the use of Hiren included HD programs)


pepe wrote:
The thing is bleeding from several wounds now, I don't think there would be many enthusiasts willing to hold your hand through this process, it is simply because it takes shitload of time to assist remotely in such situation, i would probably recover this drive several times before we get anywhere remotely. Yes, this costs some bucks but...
There are a lot of posts of fzabkar about how to do basic diag on PCBs, you may find them useful, but i am not even sure the problem is in the PCB, might be h.


Again, thank you for your time!
First board reinstalled with new head makes a different weird sound like slight hissing (not scratching) ticking returns when old head + old board are combined, it only "seems" to work alright with the new board but no cylinder info to work with.

Yes i know, lol at removing heads back and fourth hahah. :roll: Let's see how that went (by the end result if we make it there)

Yeah, i think that the diagnosis route is much more complicated (for my skills) and soldering the chip to the new board is a more viable option, as long as it's done right.
I wish i could send it somewhere but they can't verify the operation worked if they don't have the HD to check it and that complicates weights, transportation risks of shocks etc.
so i am just stuck with asking if i can pull the soldering part off if my hand is super steady (no coffee that day!) :mrgreen: and other requirements are looked after.
I wish it was the RAM or the driver chip but unfortunately, it's the one with the smallest pins in the group, right at the threshold of hand-soldering but not impossible if patient!


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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 6:47 
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if it is spinning, very low chance the problem has anything to do with the board.
more probably firmware or heads.

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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 7:06 
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Joined: November 29th, 2022, 18:20
Posts: 12
Location: Greece
pepe wrote:
if it is spinning, very low chance the problem has anything to do with the board.
more probably firmware or heads.


But, it's only spinning with the new board!
Sorry if i got you confused my friend!

Ticking with the older board and spinning alright and idling with the new board, but no cylinder/sector info exist on the new board and that's why the chip transfer is considered.
Because indeed, other than the firmware, it now looks alright!

Only option is the chip transfer, or there are people who can read the info then copy it to a new chip?
New board seems 100% functional!


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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 7:19 
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Joined: September 27th, 2022, 7:09
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Just a guess, but there is a rather large empty header which is probably used for JTAG. Somewhere on this board someone reverse engineered the pinout but I don't know if it is the same for each vendor/board. Maybe you can dump relevant data through the header and flash it to the new chip. It maybe wouldn't even require soldering to connect to the right JTAG pins.


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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 8:22 
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Joined: November 29th, 2022, 18:20
Posts: 12
Location: Greece
TakeTwo wrote:
Just a guess, but there is a rather large empty header which is probably used for JTAG. Somewhere on this board someone reverse engineered the pinout but I don't know if it is the same for each vendor/board. Maybe you can dump relevant data through the header and flash it to the new chip. It maybe wouldn't even require soldering to connect to the right JTAG pins.


Thank you!
looking into your tip and the first options i see include raspberries which is great to see!

update: Someone capable of chip transferring has appeared (minimizing the risk of failure if i were to do it)
but i am definitely shooting for the JTAG options first if it's possible because those pins are there indeed.

Researching further..
Thank you all for the input!


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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 8:40 
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Joined: November 29th, 2022, 18:20
Posts: 12
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The options i can find online (most of them link back to this forum btw) need more software knowledge than i am confident with,
hex coding included, so unless an easier OTS (Off The Shelf) solution exists, chip transfer still looks more appealing and hopeful..

am i wrong to suspect that the removal of the BIOS chip, together with the holding back on info concerning the schematics/info of IC chips, is made so data is harder to pull out?
You can find the info on the driver chip and the DRAM chip but not on the main one as its info (pinouts etc.) seem to be withheld.
Technology seems to be spending more money in trying to make it harder for an end-user to DIY it, than evolving to become easier and more accessible!
I do get why..
There's just no other reason to have the JTAG port there but no way for users (or data recovery professionals) to access it..

If you send THEM (eg. WD in this case) your drive, all they do is plug-a-port and then the $$ starts flowing in!
Perfect business practice!
:thankyou:


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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 11:39 
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Joined: October 3rd, 2005, 0:40
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Quote:
If you send THEM (eg. WD in this case) your drive, all they do is plug-a-port and then the $$ starts flowing in!
Perfect business practice!


they won't give a damn for your data, nor repair your drive of such age. so no $$$ to wd.
my oppinion is that you are wasting time on jtag, coz it is not the board you have problem with.

Contact Northwind if you want your data back before you shred it for good.

pepe

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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 12:33 
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Joined: November 29th, 2022, 18:20
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pepe wrote:
Quote:
If you send THEM (eg. WD in this case) your drive, all they do is plug-a-port and then the $$ starts flowing in!
Perfect business practice!


pepe wrote:
they won't give a damn for your data, nor repair your drive of such age. so no $$$ to wd.

My experience with WD customer service is 100% good!
They replace even very old drives (those of lifetime or 5+ year warranty) with a brand new in the box before you even ship yours in!
No talk about data, i didn't even expect them to. That's the user's job to protect them!
But do you have another good reason for removing the BIOS chip (while the contacts for it are still there)
and yet, still carry connectors that can access the CPU, bypassing a faulty board?
This thread is not about discovering that, but it looks like you're implying i am wrong!

pepe wrote:
my oppinion is that you are wasting time on jtag, coz it is not the board you have problem with.

Agreed on JTAG! That's what i think too.. my eyes are sore even by looking into it!
Thank you for the input!
But i disagree that the board is what i have a problem with because we are talking about the donor board with the older chip.
Board is fine and harddrive is recognized correctly and spins and idles till i get it some cylinder data!
I thought we had that cleared :(

pepe wrote:
Contact Northwind if you want your data back before you shred it for good.

This thread is not about crucial data, i would have taken different routes if so and definitely trust a professional who would get paid from the company i'd be hired to save their data.

This thread is simply asking if the transfer of the chip is doable and if it has been achieved and if in this specific drive there's something i should worry about before getting it desoldered.
I don't mind getting it done for me, but i can't send abroad because one won't be able to verify if the transfer worked without the harddrive and that complicates things, so here come the forums to assist!

With all due respects sir, my apologies if my approach on this is blunter than you'd expect my friend, but i have a 25+ year experience on computers backed by two degrees (Bhs and the poor CCNA) and doing this is more of a challenge than a data recovery case!
Perhaps, if i end up gettin this chip in place, i then can fix some 10G switches (by replacing their faulty CPUs) i have around in the company i work for. Who knows?
There's always a first when it comes to new skills and for me and chip planting, this is it!

It's a battle with hardware and i am used to winning those, that's all it is!
I'm not shy in asking for help tho!
sigh :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 12:39 
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If you upload a photo of your PCB, I'll show you the supply voltage test points (3.3V, 1.2V, etc). This will help us to determine whether it may be possible to read the ROM contents directly from the PCB.

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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 12:50 
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fzabkar wrote:
If you upload a photo of your PCB, I'll show you the supply voltage test points (3.3V, 1.2V, etc). This will help us to determine whether it may be possible to read the ROM contents directly from the PCB.


Thank you sir!
Still, this is route (2) (diagnosing the old board) which is much harder to me and i am afraid it is risky to replace a component because if it fails again then i will lose the donor board too (missing component)
Two board types with this serial # , option 1 is ours, the one lacking the BIOS chip (bottom pic) (lucky me!)


Attachments:
File comment: Type 2 board includes the BIOS but it is not the one we have!
2060-771642-001-Type-2.jpg
2060-771642-001-Type-2.jpg [ 96.14 KiB | Viewed 5754 times ]
File comment: Type 1: No BIOS chip
(this is the one we're talking about)

2060-771642-001-Type-1.jpg
2060-771642-001-Type-1.jpg [ 95.05 KiB | Viewed 5754 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 13:00 
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Measure the voltages at L1, L2 and Q1.

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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 13:20 
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fzabkar wrote:
Measure the voltages at L1, L2 and Q1.

Supposing i need to power the board in order to measure current?

A friend is visiting anytime now and it will have to wait till tomorrow because i need to fetch a PSU on the desk next to the YH-536 because the portable multimeter i have here has no voltage measuring capabilities. (cheap stuff)

My room setup is far from a diagnostics desk :-/


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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: November 30th, 2022, 14:48 
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Quote:
But i disagree that the board is what i have a problem with because we are talking about the donor board with the older chip.
Board is fine and harddrive is recognized correctly and spins and idles till i get it some cylinder data!

because the donor board very probably cannot load fw from SA due to version mismatch and it gives some ID with 0 LBA capacity probably. You could check that in linux using hdparm.
So i would be very careful about blaming the board. I give it like 1% chance.
I understand your logic and see where it goes wrong, that's it.
we are getting to the critical topic length i was talking about in the first post :)

Quote:
portable multimeter i have here has no voltage measuring capabilities

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
never seen such thing, apart from an LCR meter i too have :)

pepe

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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: December 1st, 2022, 3:22 
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pepe wrote:
Quote:
But i disagree that the board is what i have a problem with because we are talking about the donor board with the older chip.
Board is fine and harddrive is recognized correctly and spins and idles till i get it some cylinder data!

pepe wrote:
because the donor board very probably cannot load fw from SA due to version mismatch and it gives some ID with 0 LBA capacity probably. You could check that in linux using hdparm.
So i would be very careful about blaming the board. I give it like 1% chance.
I understand your logic and see where it goes wrong, that's it.
we are getting to the critical topic length i was talking about in the first post :)


So then, what's the alternative?
Supposedly, switching a board should just work as is? no need for cylinder info to be transferred?
Because i WAS of the impression that people switch the BIOS chips and this thread is for boards that DON'T HAVE that BIOS chip, trying to discuss alternative methods to do the same job with those having BIOS chips on their boards!
Yes, we're not succeeding much, i will agree on that!

Quote:
portable multimeter i have here has no voltage measuring capabilities

pepe wrote:
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
never seen such thing, apart from an LCR meter i too have :)


I know right? There's a first for everything!
I can tell you one thing for sure, this aspect wasn't advertised much (or at all) at the website i got it from


Attachments:
meter.jpg
meter.jpg [ 120.48 KiB | Viewed 5614 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: December 1st, 2022, 6:03 
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pepe wrote:

Contact Northwind if you want your data back before you shred it for good.

pepe


Thanks Peter, but I'll pass.

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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: December 1st, 2022, 6:54 
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:) it looks like the market is fine, everybody is happy :)

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 Post subject: Re: NO BIOS chip WD drive recovery
PostPosted: December 1st, 2022, 13:21 
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@Cre3p, I've just reread your first post. If I understand correctly, you swapped the heads and PCB from a donor drive. The drive was then recognised by BIOS.

This means that the head adaptives in the ROM now match the heads. Also, the loader code in the SA must be a good enough match for the ROM code. This is good. Assuming there are no defects in the SA, then you should be good to go.

However, before you start cloning, you can read the firmware modules in the ROM and SA using the demo version of WDMarvel.

https://wdmarvel.com/en/demo/

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