Will this forum jeopardise our bread and butter?

[HardDiskBug]

Well, nice issue raised up by HeadCrash,
And nice arguments by members too..

Though, most of the senior members here are kinda right. As, this forum temptes that some of the noobs or the "Hardware, Hard Disk, Data Recovery, MotherBoard, SMPS, RAM and everything is being repaired up here" sort of jack of all guys. And, it surely jeopardizes our stuff, but the suggesions given here are not the "Sureshot" ones. Let me tell you why:

See, as we are talking here to make this forum a kind of "paid" or small "Fee" basis. But, this can never lead to avoid the problem. Even I don't mind paying, but that guys can also pay once and become a part of the community, as in the developed countries, such small amount for being a member of such community isn't a bad deal. So, the problem will still remain same...

So, the solution could be not to make it paid, but to use another barriers. We could make the process like this, that to access the forums, one must have an "Established" DR company (And it's website referrence) or we can have such barrier, that one must have this much knowledge about hard drives and DR (we can make a table of some basic questions). In this way, we ensure that the person entering in this arena, deserves to be here, not just a rookie.
Remembers, Noobs can also pay even they are willing to pay more then professional sometimes!!

[rchadwick]

I think the problem is not this forum, but the nature of Data Recovery. To the average computer user, there is no difference between an established shop with all the right tools, knowledge, and experience, and some teenager in his bedroom with some freeware. With decent web skills, both look the same, except that some companies seem to 'rip people off', and there are some with a 'very reasonable' $50 recovery. We all know that we get what we pay for, but people so easily forget that.

What we really need is an association. It doesn't even need to be that big or invasive, just enough to separate out the scammers and DR wannabes.

If this forum has ever been helpful to you, then it's in your best interest it continues.

[Ahmed_Samy]

sharing information with the others is wonderful .... be sure of that

[salvationlaura]

hi, headcrash, I read your post carefully.

not meaning to offend, do you think that freeloaders or people always lurking on this forum would gain all the knowledge and experience by reading your professional posts or downlaod some firmwares?

Then they all go to start DR business and be your competitors?

Or not so talented people who not so quick learning, they will recover their valuable data by themselves then no one will go to a DR company any more?

Your logical ratiocination really shocked me, maybe someone on this forum.

You should open minded. I can understand many people wants to share the bread and butter,but you should know that, the bread and butter not belong to only you.

Why not open your eyes and seee all over the world, the DR companies are like bamboo shoots after a spring rain. It seems all the people want to grab your bread and butter, what should you to do?

Well, IMHO, just do it, and do it better.

[pepe]

Hi,

IMHO this forum is not intended to give complete DR training as it does not do that. However I think that some people sometimes publish too much info too.
The main advantage of this forum for laymans is to receive the most valuable info: what they can do in the house and what not.
When to contact a pro.
And we must be wise enough to give good advices.

pepe

[hddguru]

Short answer..
Yes!

A*elab + Salvat*ion have also helped to kill data recovery profits.

< 2003 everything was much better

[hddguru]

Didn't Salvation "FREE LOAD" from Acelabs research?

I think so........................ Please tell me otherwise!

hi, headcrash, I read your post carefully.

not meaning to offend, do you think that freeloaders or people always lurking on this forum would gain all the knowledge and experience by reading your professional posts or downlaod some firmwares?

Then they all go to start DR business and be your competitors?

Or not so talented people who not so quick learning, they will recover their valuable data by themselves then no one will go to a DR company any more?

Your logical ratiocination really shocked me, maybe someone on this forum.

You should open minded. I can understand many people wants to share the bread and butter,but you should know that, the bread and butter not belong to only you.

Why not open your eyes and seee all over the world, the DR companies are like bamboo shoots after a spring rain. It seems all the people want to grab your bread and butter, what should you to do?

Well, IMHO, just do it, and do it better.

[coffeebean]

Salvationdata is a bambooshoot in the spring rain

Hey! I love this forum

Free entertainment for all

[Ahmed_Samy]

Hi Headcrash and all,

again and again i emphasize : sharing information with the others is not too bad to this limit ... we all should be more open minded.... sharing information with the others is one of the best things in our life

good luck for all
Ahmed_samy

[salvationlaura]

[quote="hddguru"]Didn't Salvation "FREE LOAD" from Acelabs research?

I think so........................ Please tell me otherwise!


Well, as Coffeebean said, sharing information with others, is one of the best thing in one's life.
To salvaitonDATA, me or any others here, we may have the same feeling if we shared some information with others or some others shared some information with us.

:uup

[salvationlaura]

Salvationdata is a bambooshoot in the spring rain

Hey! I love this forum

Free entertainment for all

On this forum, many hdd gururs & CEO, Chief Entertainment Officers. you are one of them

[DRNJ]

I think Salvation Data is great!

It is a independently developed product in direct competition with Ace lab.

It is going to force Ace lab to drop their price, make their system more user friendly and force them to respond quickly with updates for new hard drives.

This forum is great because it is going to put the data recovery crooks out of business.

I can't tell you how many drives I get in from customers who have gone to a recovery company and received quotes well over $1,000 for some simple problems like a shorted diode or a burnt fuse.

You do not know how happy they are when I fix their drive for $25.

It is criminal to charge to charge somebody $1,000 for five minutes of work.

I have total respect to those who charge an honest hourly rate for their work.

I have no respect for those who take advantage of someone in a desperate state.

Honest data recovery people think this forum is great, they will use it and continue to thrive.

The crooks hate it because it reveals their scam and will put them out of business.

[weaker]

I like the idea of rchadwick with the association! With some seal like "trustworthy DR company"

Although I have many years of hardware experience I'm not sure if I could distinguish a serious and good DR company from a discount-price-and-makes-things-worse DR company. What would be my criteria?

[DRNJ]

I think an independent review from a well credited company (like consumer reports) would be good. Maybe send a few drives with a range of identical failures to every data recovery company and monitor the results.

[jono-ats]

This forum is great because it is going to put the data recovery crooks out of business.

I can't tell you how many drives I get in from customers who have gone to a recovery company and received quotes well over $1,000 for some simple problems like a shorted diode or a burnt fuse.

You do not know how happy they are when I fix their drive for $25.

It is criminal to charge to charge somebody $1,000 for five minutes of work.

I have total respect to those who charge an honest hourly rate for their work.

I understand your point. In fact, our business model is based upon relatively low fixed charges . . . $349 for a software recovery; $649 for one that requires a hardware fix first.

True, sometimes it takes a few minutes to fix a diode. But other attempts may take hours and hours. We charge the client the same regardless. Is that "dishonest?" No, I don't think so. That is our business model.

I have a lot of hardware that I have to amortize that is part of the equation, too. When I've spent >$30K on gear and have office overhead, advertising, etc. I can't afford to charge someone $25. But if you work out of your bedroom, I suppose that you can.

Some of us spend quite a bit on our own R&D developing our own tools to improve the odds of a successful recovery. If you don't have the proper tools but are still attempting data recovery you are doing your client a disservice . . . especially if their data is mission-critical.

I would argue that there is nothing criminal about charging clients a fair price that takes into account actual costs and overhead. Ironically, I would also argue that presenting your capabilities as the same as another firm that has invested a great deal of time and money in the best tools to do the job is dishonest.

Jon

[Shortscurcuits]

Hi guys just a point from someone who doesn't do this for a living, rather it is an interesting hobby, I have screwed some drives that could have been fixed by the pros and saved some easily ( from knowledge I have picked up here or figured out by myself or reading) I think PM is the way to go if you can really help, and really you can tell the noobs from the real guys from the content of their posts. I do circuit board repairs for a hobby M/B HDD ect so I don't reflect on the commercial DR firms, but I think that making this an exclusive forum is wrong. Maysoft built this to help not to be exclusive, if it is special knowledge, PM it, if you feel it isn't post it on the forum. This can help those who need it, if the DR is important they will go to the pros anyway. At least that is how my real business runs.....

Andy.

[hiljak]

"Value-based" billing is dishonest and unscrupulous... PERIOD. Our recoveries are done at a set hourly rate and a breakdown of labor is provided with the bill. We are also a network service company so we don't need to break the bank on every job. Some people also don't like to lie about time invested into a job, just to make a quick buck (it's this old fashioned trait call integrity in business practices). Everyday more and more companies are getting into data recovery and "secret" procedures aren't so secret anymore (particularly with the release of the PC3000 manuals onto the internet).

Most data recovery firms see the trend and are adjusting their pricing accordingly (i.e. the price for ActionFront to complete a single drive recovery went from $3,000 to $5,000 down to a more reasonable and competitive $750.00 to $1,500.00). Now with the upcoming release of the Atola Insight (point and click fully automated recovery system), Circuit City and Best Buy service departments will be doing simple firmware based and logical corruption based recoveries. The days of the tight-lipped and enormous billing DR industry are over for good. Deal with it and adapt, or you will be out of business completely.

[jono-ats]

"Value-based" billing is dishonest and unscrupulous... PERIOD.

You really should qualify your statement with, "in my opinion." Many industries do flat rate repairs, e.g. hospitals, car shops, plumbers, electricians. You personally may not like that model, but it is not open ended (e.g. some firms quote vast ranges for DR, e.g. $1600 - $3200) and a prospect can shop around if they are interested in comparing price alone.

In fact, often we lose money or spend excessive time on particular jobs. When I did computer service by the hour I would often truncate my charges if I felt it was excessive in light of the task at hand, i.e. provided "value-based" billing. Is that also 'dishonest' in your narrow view?

Many, many computer service providers offer "per seat" charges. Some clients prefer to purchase service in that way for budget purposes. "Dishonest" it is not -- even if my hourly rate were 10X yours.

[hiljak]

to jono-ats: I was not referring to the prices you listed in your post as value based; those are more of what I consider a reasonable flat-rate based on the average amount of labor spent on a job. By value based I am referring to firms that quote an enormously inflated fee range which has no correlation to the labor/time involved (based on the perceived value of the data). If you don't know what I'm referring to, well I guess I don't know what to tell you.

Oh and yes, everything I said above is in my opinion.

[salvationlaura]

In my opinion, Your both statement are really reasonable.
;D