Healing slow blocks by Erasing: Is it durable?

[hddgorilla]

Hello:
My Samsung F1 (1TB) had a lot of slow blocks: 700 green blocks.
I have done a secure erase of this disk.

Before: aprox 700 slow blocks (greens)
Now: aprox 100 slow blocks (greens)

The question is : will they come back? Is this "healing" durable?

[BlackST]

Wilk they come back? YES. Durable healing? NO.

Last edited by BlackST on August 29th, 2008, 17:22, edited 1 time in total.

[hddgorilla]

any more details?
how long will it last before I return to the previous situation?
weeks, months?

[thatdellguy]

How long Wilk this go on? Ugh!!!!!

[mediaman]

i'll take a newbie guess at helping, feel free to shoot me when i'm wrong:
I assume "green blocks" are what MHDD is showing you, readable but slowish.
"healing" as I understand will just move these blocks to the Plist so as to "hide" them. Those blocks won't re-appear unless you flush the list (that won't happen by it self)
what will happen is that more duff blocks will appear as time goes on.

If you doubt the disk why put important data on it? use it as a backup of backups, in a second location, and buy a new one.

shoot away

[hddgorilla]

How long Wilk this go on? Ugh!!!!!

no, my question is: how long... will the healing last

[hddgorilla]

i'll take a newbie guess at helping, feel free to shoot me when i'm wrong:
I assume "green blocks" are what MHDD is showing you, readable but slowish.
"healing" as I understand will just move these blocks to the Plist so as to "hide" them. Those blocks won't re-appear unless you flush the list (that won't happen by it self)
what will happen is that more duff blocks will appear as time goes on.

If you doubt the disk why put important data on it? use it as a backup of backups, in a second location, and buy a new one.

shoot away

Hi mediaman.
Yes, green blocks are just slow blocks.
No, as I understand it, when I secure-erased the disk, these slow sectors were not hidden. Just got faster. I am asking if they will eventually get slower again.

Yes, if I don't return it, I will use it as backup, at least at the beginning.
Buy a new drive? No, I don't have money for another new drive.

[N.C.]

i'll take a newbie guess at helping, feel free to shoot me when i'm wrong:
I assume "green blocks" are what MHDD is showing you, readable but slowish.
"healing" as I understand will just move these blocks to the Plist so as to "hide" them. Those blocks won't re-appear unless you flush the list (that won't happen by it self)
what will happen is that more duff blocks will appear as time goes on.

If you doubt the disk why put important data on it? use it as a backup of backups, in a second location, and buy a new one.

shoot away

Hi mediaman.
Yes, green blocks are just slow blocks.
No, as I understand it, when I secure-erased the disk, these slow sectors were not hidden. Just got faster. I am asking if they will eventually get slower again.

Yes, if I don't return it, I will use it as backup, at least at the beginning.
Buy a new drive? No, I don't have money for another new drive.

Hi for all!

Healing the slow block in mhdd is only mean overwrite its contents to new one (like zero).
It is a destructive option, don't use it on important data filled drive!!!
This procedure refresh the contents, and the block have 2 choice:
1. be faster again
2. be UNC(orrectable). If the remap is ON, the drive can "hide" this block, reallocate it. (goes to G-list).

The slowness caused by hyperparamagnetic effect.
The corruption can be corrected by ECC circuit in the pcb, but takes more time.
Additionally sometimes the corrector code try to read again and again, try to read a little off-track.
This causes the slowness, sometimes make strange noises as well.
If the content is rewritten, the block can be correctly readable again.

If the part of the surface is weaker than the others, the slowness will come again sooner or later....

Regards,
Janos

[hddgorilla]

Hi for all!

Healing the slow block in mhdd is only mean overwrite its contents to new one (like zero).
It is a destructive option, don't use it on important data filled drive!!!
This procedure refresh the contents, and the block have 2 choice:
1. be faster again
2. be UNC(orrectable). If the remap is ON, the drive can "hide" this block, reallocate it. (goes to G-list).

The slowness caused by hyperparamagnetic effect.
The corruption can be corrected by ECC circuit in the pcb, but takes more time.
Additionally sometimes the corrector code try to read again and again, try to read a little off-track.
This causes the slowness, sometimes make strange noises as well.
If the content is rewritten, the block can be correctly readable again.

If the part of the surface is weaker than the others, the slowness will come again sooner or later....

Regards,
Janos

Thanks N.C.:

In fact, I "healed" the disk using the CMRR Secure Eraser, not MHDD.
(The disk was empty of data).
Then I scanned the disk and there was much fewer green blocks.
No bad blocks.
Then I think the slow sectors are now faster.
The question is whether they will slow down again. Most probably, as you say, this is a weakened media problem, and they will resurface.
How long will it take to resurface? How about rescanning in a couple of weeks? will I see the "resurfacing trend", in case there is one?

[cgallery]

How long will it take to resurface? How about rescanning in a couple of weeks? will I see the "resurfacing trend", in case there is one?

Nobody knows or can predict how long it will take. The point is, the media seems week so it wouldn't be advisable to store anything important on that drive.

[N.C.]

sorry, i mean superparamagnetic, not hyperparamagnetic.
Too late was yesterday...

@ hddgorilla no software, and no company can resurface the media.
It is only recyclabel.

The slow blocks depends on the content, and the media part quality.
(if you fill the disk with 0x00 and 0xff, you can find a lot of equal place slow sectors, and a lot of different place as well.)

If the data is overwrited, the magnetic domains flipped right again.
The superparamagnetic effect can corrupt again the block, but depends on the content.
IMHO better to be bad, and moved to G list.
It is a safe place for this sectors.

If the disk have a lot of slow sectors, i suggest to don't use it on important place.
The periodically recheck is good idea.
The UNC sectors goes to G list, without the OS crashed because finds needed part in UNC sector.

Regards,
Janos

[BlackST]

I can fully recertify the drive in 48 hours

[hddgorilla]

@N.C.:
I have erased the disk another time with the same program as before, MCRR, but
now I got no improvement. Aprox 125 green blocks, same as before.
Erasing with MHDD also no improvements.
Also, considering that the healed sectors will probably go slow again, I have decided to return the drive to the shop (RMA), and we will see if Samsung accepts the RMA.
Also, as suggested, I could create a Badblock with MHDD, and then, the disk won't pass Samsung diagnostics, and the RMA will be accepted, I think.

[hddgorilla]

I can fully recertify the drive in 48 hours

certify the defunction?

[BlackST]

No, I mean re-certify and REPAIR the drive completely.

[hddgorilla]

No, thanks BlackST, I don't have any money left, seriously.
Also, the drive costs about 120€, makes no sense to repair it.
I have no data to recover.
And the disk can be used as it is.

Anyway, I will try to RMA it.

[BlackST]

In any case don't expect zero 'greens'. And - according to the use you seem to do with drive - don't expect more than 1 year life.

[N.C.]

@N.C.:
I have erased the disk another time with the same program as before, MCRR, but
now I got no improvement. Aprox 125 green blocks, same as before.
Erasing with MHDD also no improvements.
Also, considering that the healed sectors will probably go slow again, I have decided to return the drive to the shop (RMA), and we will see if Samsung accepts the RMA.
Also, as suggested, I could create a Badblock with MHDD, and then, the disk won't pass Samsung diagnostics, and the RMA will be accepted, I think.

The situation is a little bit more complicated, i am affraid. :S

The slowness can caused by some weak signal or little corruption of the sector's servo field, or the addressmark or id as well.
So, in this case, the seriously overwrite, won't help.

If you force samsung, to replace the drive, you have a big chance, to receive one refurbished drive with bigger problem inside, but passes the diagnostics. :S

I suggest to try to sell the drive, because it is error-free, and buy another new one.

Janos

[hddgorilla]

The situation is a little bit more complicated, i am affraid. :S

The slowness can caused by some weak signal or little corruption of the sector's servo field, or the addressmark or id as well.
So, in this case, the seriously overwrite, won't help.

If you force samsung, to replace the drive, you have a big chance, to receive one refurbished drive with bigger problem inside, but passes the diagnostics. :S

I suggest to try to sell the drive, because it is error-free, and buy another new one.

Janos

Hi:

The first erase made a big improvement. From 700 to 125 greens.
But then no further improvement is possible.

Humm, I don't know, I think the shop would send me a new one, but I am not sure. I will ask them. I bought the drive 2 weeks ago.

Sell the drive? Good idea, I will sell it to BlackST (110 EUROS)

Another question: If I force a Badblock using MHDD, Samsung diagnostic will fail. But in case Samsung won't accept the RMA, will I be able to regenerate the block using HDDRegenerator, or at least map out the badblock?

regards

[BlackST]

I pay it much less, and 1st choice drive, not "shopping mall quality", sorry (for you).