Cloning MMC issue!

[z4lumroF]

Hello everybody!
I introduce myself, my name is Alessandro and i'm from Italy;
I'm looking for a little help to be able cloning a "special" Mmc multimedia card,
It is a simple mmc 128mb plus by Trascend, the problem is that this card is formatted in a proprietary (built in) file system,
It work exclusively for record data from a cash register... if i plug the memory on a simple laptop or pc is not readable by any O.S. (tried on Ms windows, Ubuntu, IOs and even android), it's visible as local disk but with unknown file system, i tried using a lot of software like clonezilla, gparted, acronis ecc..., HDD Raw Copy recognize the disk but if i select the target and click on "continue" don't start the operation and return on the initial screen without the disk (mmc) on the list.
Someone can help me, it's very important for me do this work.

Saluti.

[HaQue]

did you try dd in linux?

[z4lumroF]

Yes, i tried, dd can't read the drive, i also tried ddrescue but the result is the same, it seems that this mmc is unreadable and if unclonable from any known system except it's own closed system. Maybe it's time to think about a "hardware copy" solution? Or Maybe the problem is the standard usb card reader that I use for this work and I need a different kind of reader?

[mr_spokk]

To clone a drive, card or other it's not important to read the file system.
Clone the card in Winhex to another card...should be no problem.
But if you need (will) read whats inside...thats another problem.

[fzabkar]

Can you view the contents of the card with a hex editor?

If so, could we see sector 0?

[z4lumroF]

I'm not interested to read data inside the mmc, I just need a copy to use in other machines... WinHex can't read content of this drive, when i open Winex "open disk" it takes a long time to recognize the list of disks, after this i choose the mmc drive arleady takes a long long time (Meanwhile, I can see the green light on the card reader that flashes repeatedly, I think the reader try to read without success), after one hour of flashes without changes I unplug the reader from usb port and finally winhex is released with this messages:


Does anyone have some idea??

[pcimage]

Does this card actually work?

Doesn't look like it

[z4lumroF]

Yes it's working perfectly inside the cash register, this is very strange! i've a lot of these mmc all equal

[fzabkar]

Is the card password protected?

Google finds a CMD42 Lock/Unlock command ...

[z4lumroF]

I don't know if there is a password, this CMD42 command is interesting, I've to learn how can be transmit on the mmc card!
Anyway it's not important for me read the content of this mmc, my target is to make a copy.

[fzabkar]

I don't know if there is a password, this CMD42 command is interesting, I've to learn how can be transmit on the mmc card!
Anyway it's not important for me read the content of this mmc, my target is to make a copy.

You can't make a copy if you can't read the content.

[z4lumroF]

Yes this is true, now I'm very determined to solve this puzzle but I'm in stalemate... If there is a password and if there is a command to reset the password, how I can send this command to the mmc? On google i understand that action must be taken electronically from an EEPROM /datasheet or something like that?
there is nothing I can do from pc?
Anyway thanks for the help.

[fzabkar]

I don't know whether you can issue a CMD42 via a USB bridge (assuming that is what you have), but the following specification discusses password protection:

https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/pls/si ... t1_410.pdf

That said, you would need to crack the password, so that's something else altogether.

[z4lumroF]

so I've to build a mmc programmer!

[BlackST]

You probably want to clone or use another generic mmc as DGFE.
FORGET IT.
Also bear in mind that is not a good idea to tamper with fiscal data / ecr, especially on active equipment , in Italy. Understood?

[HaQue]

I don't know whether you can issue a CMD42 via a USB bridge (assuming that is what you have), but the following specification discusses password protection:

https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/pls/si ... t1_410.pdf

That said, you would need to crack the password, so that's something else altogether.

nice doc, thanks.

that is for SD though. MMC are different, though compatible with SD Slots. Some MMC have a type of DRM though Ive only ever seen 1 and it was in a GPS/Radio unit for a yacht. the owner had me fixing the laptop, and wanted to get the GPS working. We struggled with it and I remember the card was around $600 to replace because of the maps on it or some BS.

These cards are MMCplus and the part about the initialisation protocol is interesting...

"MMCplus and MMCmobile :The version 4.x of the MMC standard, introduced in 2005, brought in two very significant changes to compete against SD cards: support for running at higher speeds (26 MHz and 52 MHz) than the original MMC (20 MHz) or SD (25 MHz, 50 MHz) and a four- or eight-bit-wide data bus.

Version 4.x full-size cards and reduced-size cards can be marketed as MMCplus and MMCmobile respectively.

Version 4.x cards are fully backward compatible with existing readers but require updated hardware/software to use their new capabilities; even though the four-bit-wide bus and high-speed modes of operation are deliberately electrically compatible with SD, the initialization protocol is different, so firmware/software updates are required to support these features in an SD reader.

Also the controller doesn't need to be a standard card reader, MMC supports embedded controllers so the register could be doing its own funky stuff.

[BlackST]

There is something else more in this case. The mmc is used to store the same data printed on the receipt out of the ecr instead of using paper, the funky stuff starts when priming the mmc and then at each use. This system this way, plus another add only fiscal data memory exist only in Italy so far. Probably the idea WAS to use common mmcs instead of the expensive custom mmcs. Or something else...
If it was so simple you could alter fiscal data like daily revenue , except for the internal unamovable and sealed add on fiscal memory.
Final note : ecr machines in Italy are sealed and every intervention
OR the subsequent return to service are to be recorded on an official log book bound to the machine and carried out by only authorized service personnel who have a personal unique seal , assigned by government . They have to extract data by request of the law enforcement authorities / tax agency and if there.are discrepancies the consequences are really bad , for the shopkeeper first. It is also strictly prohibited to modify in any way the characteristics or working mode of the ecr. If , just in case, data comes in but not out of the mmc during a random verification by authority, it will be a bad day.
The ecr will stop working if the mmc called DGFE becomes unresponsive or fails, internal failure recovery systems are implemented , though.
Many manufacturers sell mmc that can work as DGFE , the difference is that they are compliant to certain specifications, more or less like common smart card chips for use on certain applications.
Guess how I know all this and hence the warning also to who is trying to help...

[z4lumroF]

Dear BlackST,
Last Time I checked, there are no legal issues to use a DGFE different from that selled by manufactuter,
Here we are no talking about modify characteristic or working mode of the ecr, we are just trying to save money in this times of economic crisis,said this if you want I can list you a lot of private companies that sell compatible DGFE for all cash registers brands, legally and with bill.

Thats all, if you want we can close the entire discussion here.
Best Regards

[BlackST]

Dear BlackST,
Last Time I checked, there are no legal issues to use a DGFE different from that selled by manufactuter,
Here we are no talking about modify characteristic or working mode of the ecr, we are just trying to save money in this times of economic crisis,said this if you want I can list you a lot of private companies that sell compatible DGFE for all cash registers brands, legally and with bill.

Thats all, if you want we can close the entire discussion here.
Best Regards

COMPATIBLE AND COMPLIANT is not FORGED, in fact. You don't have to send me anything as I worked in the field first hand, now limiting only to service engineering (thank God...)

[HaQue]

thank you BlackST for the background info. I don't think the OP will save alot of money by making own MMC's as opposed to buying from on of the private companies selling compatible cards, but more than likely waste precious time on the pursuit.

Maybe a fun challenge, but really not very realistic on results/time ratio