Solder strength on Monolith PCBS too weak.

[Matiw]

I have been trying to solder wires on a Verbatim monolith Flash drive PCB. The monolith PCB is very small, even smaller than a Micro SD card. I have somehow succeeded in soldering the wires on the board using Solder paste. But, because of the closeness of the solder points and the adjacent PCB traces, only a very very small amount of solder can be used at each solder point, and this makes the solder joints lack strength, and detach very easily. I would be grateful if someone can point out how I can get those solder joints stronger; or, if someone can advise an alternate way of doing this task.

Thanks

[digitalferret]

Hi Matiw,

maybe you could set the monolith in a small jig?
Doesn't have to be complex, just enough to hold the card and support the main body of the wire before it goes off-board.

Might be an idea to make it "outside -> in" so the card sits in middle, then the outer wire supports go on first, attach/glue wires to the support and leave loose ends over the tracks to attach to, and other side loose to off-board. This way they don't snag or dangle at the point of weakness: the micro track.

track __,-----=============|||||================--------- offboard
___.====._______support->___|||||_____________jig base

apologies for poor ascii art hoping it lines up

Maybe you tried already, but you could also stagger the connections or join elsewhere on the track further along, so the joints aren't too close together.

painstaking work: good luck.

K

[fzabkar]

Use the "code" style to encapsulate ASCII art. Then you can be certain that the font will be fixed width and that multiple spaces will be preserved. That said, there is an annoying bug that sometimes swallows a leading space.

[digitalferret]

fzabkar, thanks for that: noted

[HaQue]

I have been trying to solder wires on a Verbatim monolith Flash drive PCB. The monolith PCB is very small, even smaller than a Micro SD card. I have somehow succeeded in soldering the wires on the board using Solder paste. But, because of the closeness of the solder points and the adjacent PCB traces, only a very very small amount of solder can be used at each solder point, and this makes the solder joints lack strength, and detach very easily. I would be grateful if someone can point out how I can get those solder joints stronger; or, if someone can advise an alternate way of doing this task.

Thanks

Are you soldering by eye or under a stereo Microscope?
Once you start using a microscope, everything improves substantially

[Matiw]

Even though the wire is very thin and light, the effect of gravitational force (and possibly other forces) on the wire was too strong for that tiny solder to withstand. A support system will certainly help avoid the effect of gravity. Thanks digitalferret.

HaQue, yes I am using a stereo Microscope.

[HaQue]

Maybe the wires are too thick, or too long. I use wire that is stripped out of DC Power cord from mobile phone or whatever. I think the strands are around .09mm. there is no gravity.

the monolith needs to be clean on the contact and I rub it with a flux pen, and put a tiny blob of solder on there first. then get the wire and position it in the blob, and the wire being so small, has a good hold.

Another absolute must is very good solder. I use 5-core 60/40 0.45mm solder -about AU$25 for a 250gram roll. Do NOT use lead free, you will be disappointed.

If you share some photos of your soldering, maybe we can troubleshoot some more.

The biggest issue I have found is surprising - getting the solder to stick well to the end of the wire.

one last tip: use "new" solder. Solder that you have been applying, if "played with" too long before it sticks - it will get crappy and be like a dry unstickable uncooperative pain in the rear!

[Matiw]

Hi HaQue,

I have been using a 0.2mm conductor wire, I will have to look for thinner one. The Solder wire that I have been using (before switching to solder paste albeit unsuccessfully) is about the same size as yours, 0,45mm; but, the solder points are about 0.2mm in diameter, and so is the distance to the adjacent traces (0.2mm). Thus the solder wire is too big for that tiny solder point; I find it hard to melt a tiny bit of the wire to fit that solder point without contaminating the adjacent traces. I might have to try to use Solder Balls, if I can find balls about 0.2 mm in diameter. What do you think about solder balls ? Will they be effective and convenient ?

Maybe the wires are too thick, or too long. I use wire that is stripped out of DC Power cord from mobile phone or whatever. I think the strands are around .09mm. there is no gravity.

the monolith needs to be clean on the contact and I rub it with a flux pen, and put a tiny blob of solder on there first. then get the wire and position it in the blob, and the wire being so small, has a good hold.

Another absolute must is very good solder. I use 5-core 60/40 0.45mm solder -about AU$25 for a 250gram roll. Do NOT use lead free, you will be disappointed.

If you share some photos of your soldering, maybe we can troubleshoot some more.

The biggest issue I have found is surprising - getting the solder to stick well to the end of the wire.

one last tip: use "new" solder. Solder that you have been applying, if "played with" too long before it sticks - it will get crappy and be like a dry unstickable uncooperative pain in the rear!

[HaQue]

Solder balls: no, because as the soldering iron gets near, the balls "jump" to the iron, making it no better.

FWIW, I had same idea with both solder balls and solder paste, if by solder paste you mean "wire glue" ?

Best to keep trying to get the smaller solder points better

[Matiw]

By solder paste, I mean solder in the form of liquid, like > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AFN ... UTF8&psc=1

Could not the Solder balls be glued to the points of interest to avoid the balls from being displaced by the iron ?

Solder balls: no, because as the soldering iron gets near, the balls "jump" to the iron, making it no better.

FWIW, I had same idea with both solder balls and solder paste, if by solder paste you mean "wire glue" ?

Best to keep trying to get the smaller solder points better

[Haltec]

LOL - bga "balls" are for something completely different, so as solder paste...


You need quality flux, sharp soldering iron, really thin connecting wire, and ypu can solder it with even 2mm thick soldering leaded wire.


You need how to prepare "pad"'s on a monolith side, so as the conductor wire.

That's where flux "jumps in"

Have you ever use flux in syringes like Amtech one?

Just apply flux on monolith pads prior to solder preparing monolith side...


You'll figure it out asap. You can clean flux with IPA.

Do not try with flux pens, flux brushes, no clean flux products, pastes etc. Just good quality RMA-223 if I remember correctly the label. Beware of counterfits. Performance are uncomparable.

Then you place some excess solder on soldering iron and put flux on laquer copper wire and heat the wire by placing it in this excess solder drop of sloder on the iron. Remove excess solder from wire by puting more flux and press it with slodering iron. When you are satisfied with your soldered wire tip, just put small amount of flux again, press wire to the pad, and get close with soldering iron, it just need some practice...


I am writig this from my phone so sorry about any typo's etc...



Good luck...


Haltec

[HaQue]

Yes Haltek, we know what the solder balls are for Based on quite a few conversations, when people are starting out on monoliths, I have seen a common pathway from beginner to accomplished as:

1. Everything wrong, continually tries with wrong setup - fail or very poor results
2. Decide must need thinner wire - small progress
3. Decide need Microscope - small progress
3. Decide need finer tip - small progress
4. Try wire glue - fail
5. Decide must need a way to put less solder directly on the pad, think of solder ball - fail
6. Decide to use some sort of Flux - small progress
7. Decide need better solder - small progress
8. Now things are coming together, and small tweaks to all the above are possible now as the subject has experience and practice and can figure out improvements.

I agree with everything Haltek says.

One thing that a salesman at an electronics store told me when I was buying solder and flux, after I was showing him what I was soldering to.. he said be careful how aggressive the flux is. if the flux is too aggressive, it can eat a bit off the surface of the pad. if the pads are really thin, or the traces are it can eat through, or make it thin so the electrical conductivity is compromised, or heating it will lift the trace/pad from the PCB. I haven't seen it happen, but thought I'd mention it.

Once you have tweaked the above, the only other thing I will say is to solder wires in order of your natural hand direction, not order of your pinout sheet.. and make sure the wires are in the correct place, not touching so after you finish you don't have to move them to separate them.

you wouldn't think it until you have experienced soldering monoliths, but there is a lot to say on this subject even though it seems like a simple operation.

[fzabkar]

Hasn't anyone come up with a bed-of-nails jig with "pogo pins" for these kinds of jobs?

[networkpc3000]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=27891

I use 0.45 or under

[HaQue]

Tried, but really to do it right you would need $$$ and time, and also I know of around 40 fairly common pin configs

[jeremyb]

I'm impressed with your soldering skills HaQue.. I gave up soldering monolithics, 0.06mm traces were too much for me... I ended up going with computer controlled wire bonding.

[data-medics]

What piece of equipment are you using for the wire bonding?

[arvika]

This one was a challenge to solder But finally with success. The worst thing if you solder all pins, and must find short somewhere

http://www.odzyskiwanie-danych.com.pl/i ... arvika.jpg

[HaQue]

I'm impressed with your soldering skills HaQue.. I gave up soldering monolithics, 0.06mm traces were too much for me... I ended up going with computer controlled wire bonding.

Thanks, more persistence though than skill! Actually, I am impressed with your progress from the first questions on I think SC forums about these new things, to the awesome crystal clean PCB photos, FE manual and everything else from RMFD after

Also it takes me quite a long time to solder the wires. I was bidding on an old bonding machine, it was really old but I think it would have been great fun and quite useful to use. It went for around AU$650 I think, and closest match of same thing for sale was $9,000.. so a bargain for the buyer.

My wish list is a good high res camera/microscope combo to around 100x, a wire bonding machine and an X-Ray machine.

these ones look hard, and I haven't had to do one yet, thank heavens.
http://www.odzyskiwanie-danych.com.pl/images/monoliths/UFD_0015_arvika.jpg
Definitely a bonding machine would be a massive help!

cheers!

[jeremyb]

Thanks, more persistence though than skill! Actually, I am impressed with your progress from the first questions on I think SC forums about these new things, to the awesome crystal clean PCB photos, FE manual and everything else from RMFD after

Thanks for the kind words. I think you have skill, I'd solder one trace only to have the wire on another come off, weak solder joints, noise, all kinds of nasty stuff is why I gave up on soldering.

That monolithic doesn't look difficult, I've done some like it before, my favorite recovery was (I have to brag about it, sorry):
http://flash-extractor.com/library/Mono ... 94_da__2x2

I had fun taking those pictures but sergey changed the forum so I couldn't post new ones..
For those pictures I used a $500 DSLR camera, nothing special. I still love when people rub the traces off the PCB and ask for support..