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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 6th, 2016, 22:52 
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Posts: 314
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ddrecovery wrote:
You would have one customer JB :-).

I am assuming that the data lines have a specific layout, so knowing which order I presume is critical. I do not know how to define them. You can tell by me saying 'assuming' 'presume' that I have no idea.


For monolithics I use AWG45 and AWG48 wire.. If you have the capability to solder at that diameter it's worth your time to move on to step two otherwise you'll be stuck on the very simple BGA cases which aren't common. I'm not sure what your lab setup is, for monolithics everything is geared towards micro soldering, from the scope to the iron to the tips. Regular and Micro are two different worlds.

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pcimage
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 3:26 
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Can you recommend a good iron/tip combo? :-)

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Sasha Sheremetov
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 11:33 
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Joined: July 2nd, 2014, 8:05
Posts: 215
T12 tips do a nice job, (handle vendor doesn't really matter Hakko/Jovy) with a huge range from spatula for TSOP till 0.15mm (0.2mm is OK).
If you serious about micro-soldering go for JBC nano pencil or similar (a bit overpriced though)

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ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 13:15 
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Joined: June 11th, 2013, 17:01
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Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
jeremyb wrote:
ddrecovery wrote:
You would have one customer JB :-).

I am assuming that the data lines have a specific layout, so knowing which order I presume is critical. I do not know how to define them. You can tell by me saying 'assuming' 'presume' that I have no idea.


For monolithics I use AWG45 and AWG48 wire.. If you have the capability to solder at that diameter it's worth your time to move on to step two otherwise you'll be stuck on the very simple BGA cases which aren't common. I'm not sure what your lab setup is, for monolithics everything is geared towards micro soldering, from the scope to the iron to the tips. Regular and Micro are two different worlds.

Hey JB. I am actually IPC certified and have been soldering Monoliths for about a year now. If I have a pinout its not a problem. If I don't then it is....

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 18:01 
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Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
Sasha Sheremetov wrote:
T12 tips do a nice job, (handle vendor doesn't really matter Hakko/Jovy) with a huge range from spatula for TSOP till 0.15mm (0.2mm is OK).
If you serious about micro-soldering go for JBC nano pencil or similar (a bit overpriced though)


I find T12 tips don't transfer enough heat to the tip as a nano/micro tip does, I found them somewhat unless for monolithic unless you use a larger tip which defeats the purpose as you need a larger working area.

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 18:04 
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Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
ddrecovery wrote:
Hey JB. I am actually IPC certified and have been soldering Monoliths for about a year now. If I have a pinout its not a problem. If I don't then it is....

It doesn't really matter what you're certified in, what I'm getting at is can you solder two adjacent 0.2mm diameter via's or a 0.05mm trace. That's the type of work I see, if you can't a pinout isn't much use unless you plan on working on BGA style monolithics.

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ddrecovery
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 18:13 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ USA
jeremyb wrote:
ddrecovery wrote:
Hey JB. I am actually IPC certified and have been soldering Monoliths for about a year now. If I have a pinout its not a problem. If I don't then it is....

It doesn't really matter what you're certified in, what I'm getting at is can you solder two adjacent 0.2mm diameter via's or a 0.05mm trace. That's the type of work I see, if you can't a pinout isn't much use unless you plan on working on BGA style monolithics.

Yep I can do that.

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Sasha Sheremetov
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 20:43 
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Joined: July 2nd, 2014, 8:05
Posts: 215
jeremyb wrote:
I find T12 tips don't transfer enough heat to the tip as a nano/micro tip does, I found them somewhat unless for monolithic unless you use a larger tip which defeats the purpose as you need a larger working area.


Well, in ~70% is OK with a decent flux and 0.05/0.1 mm wire.
When it comes to "two adjacent 0.2mm diameter via's" I would totally agree.

I hope Michal (Arvika) isn't reading this :D
If he does, he'll make a next video about 0.3mm vias soldering with 1mm tip :D

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 20:59 
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Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
ddrecovery wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
ddrecovery wrote:
Hey JB. I am actually IPC certified and have been soldering Monoliths for about a year now. If I have a pinout its not a problem. If I don't then it is....

It doesn't really matter what you're certified in, what I'm getting at is can you solder two adjacent 0.2mm diameter via's or a 0.05mm trace. That's the type of work I see, if you can't a pinout isn't much use unless you plan on working on BGA style monolithics.

Yep I can do that.


How do you know what you're soldering are 0.2mm via's or 0.05mm traces? How did you measure them?

Next find any NAND datasheet and start matching up signals.. the control signals are easy CLE, ALE, WE, RE the data signals are a little more difficult. I'll look for "expected" commands like a chip ID or read command and start re-arranging bits until something looks valid. If you're lucky the traces are staggered in the data line order. It gets more complicated when there are two data busses because commands will often be mirrored.

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Last edited by jeremyb on November 7th, 2016, 21:05, edited 1 time in total.

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 21:01 
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Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
Sasha Sheremetov wrote:
jeremyb wrote:
I find T12 tips don't transfer enough heat to the tip as a nano/micro tip does, I found them somewhat unless for monolithic unless you use a larger tip which defeats the purpose as you need a larger working area.


Well, in ~70% is OK with a decent flux and 0.05/0.1 mm wire.
When it comes to "two adjacent 0.2mm diameter via's" I would totally agree.

I hope Michal (Arvika) isn't reading this :D
If he does, he'll make a next video about 0.3mm vias soldering with 1mm tip :D


A good flux always helps :D You can never have too much good flux, lol. I like the strawberry scented ones myself.. lol..
The coating on the wire I use has a low melting point so you don't need to tin it prior to soldering.. It's really nice.

0.044mm Wire
https://www.temcoindustrial.com/45-awg- ... on155.html

I'm afraid of posting monolithic videos, Arvika and I might get into a battle.

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Sasha Sheremetov
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 21:21 
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Joined: July 2nd, 2014, 8:05
Posts: 215
I'm addicted to Kingbo RMA-218 once you try it you can never give up :) Smells like sh*t honestly, but does a perfect job! (good ventilation is a must though)

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 7th, 2016, 21:41 
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Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
Sasha Sheremetov wrote:
I'm addicted to Kingbo RMA-218 once you try it you can never give up :) Smells like sh*t honestly, but does a perfect job! (good ventilation is a must though)
I got Kingbo on Arvika's recommendation, honestly for the price it's amazing but I tossed it in the trash once I found Amtech NC-559-V2-TF, Amtech is AMAZING and it doesn't smell "that" bad. I have never seen solder flow so well using it, especially on monolithics. The problem is 99% of it is counterfeit garbage from China (seriously), especially on eBay. You need to buy it directly from the manufacturer.

I get mine here:
https://mailin.repair/amtech-nc-559-v2-30-cc-16160.html

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arvika
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 8th, 2016, 15:33 
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Joined: October 24th, 2009, 15:22
Posts: 917
Location: Poland
Sasha - yes I reading this :) But so far not reply because topic goes to direction "who have the biggest dick" ;)

Here I write some info about soldering: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=32066

It is good for me. But other engineer probably will have other favorite tools and technique. I think result is most important.

I solder with PACE ST-50 with 3.05mm tip (PC11240034) ANY monolith.

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jeremyb
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 8th, 2016, 17:51 
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Joined: July 30th, 2012, 3:37
Posts: 314
Location: Fairfield, CT USA
arvika wrote:
Sasha - yes I reading this :) But so far not reply because topic goes to direction "who have the biggest dick" ;)

I would expect nothing less..

I use a T30-J-3021 tip.. for micro it's great, for real-world it's useless.

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Sasha Sheremetov
 Post subject: Re: Removing Pages from VNR Dump
PostPosted: November 8th, 2016, 17:56 
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Joined: July 2nd, 2014, 8:05
Posts: 215
arvika wrote:
I solder with PACE ST-50 with 3.05mm tip (PC11240034) ANY monolith.


I have no more questions who have the "biggest" tip :D

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